Courier Company Survey

[alphafat 12]

So, I was thinking of trying to establish a Courier company, I know many have tried and I've been told someone tried something similar to my idea.

 

Step 1. A more detailed survey is taken for the servers, dividing the map into sectors and polling who buys and who sells in each sector.

 

Step 2. Using the poll data, deciding on(or establishing) 2-5 coastal cities per server to become designated trade ports based on geographic population density.

 

Step 3. Establish trade deals with said cities to rent storage/establish storage.

 

Step 4. Establish a trade route using cities that accepted trade deals.

 

So, how it would work. Trade fleet ships are filled with large/small crates and every designated stop they pick up orders that they can fit in their hold and drop off orders filled at the port designated by the purchaser.

 

IE: 3 orders put in on indi to deliver to other servers, two are for 2k dirt each and one is for 1k iron lumps. One dirt order needs to go to Deliverance, and the other two orders to Exodus. So the ship delivers the order to Deliverance, unloading 1k dirt. But another order for 2k of planks is ordered to go to Celebration. So now the ship picks up the 2k planks and delivers it all in a predetermined route.

 

And instead of high prices like 1s per 1k delivered or something, something along the lines of 10-20c per 1k items shipped.

 

What do you all think?

Edited April 14, 2014 by alphafat

[sunsvortex 599]

I think after Xanadu is released, assuming its the 64x64 version, you may very well have a good thing.

[alphafat 12]

That's what got me thinking about this idea, the sheer size of it and how the rendered map showed it, like an archipelago

[Old_Lando 178]

The system you describe would seem to need to have a lot of people working on it. Currently I quote people a charge of 1s/delivery figuring about 3-4 hours to make a delivery between picking up/delivering and returning home.   If you can figure out how to streamline the work so that a delivery doesn't need to have so much time invested I'd be happy to use your service and/or providing shipping services to you.   

[Kegan 3,926]

i don't see any options to vote for not using one so did not vote. 

[alphafat 12]

There ya go Kegan, knew i forgot something

[Kegan 3,926]

There ya go Kegan, knew i forgot something

The only thing i buy is bulk goods and i expect them to be delivered so i would never use it. If they don't at least give an option to deliver then i look elsewhere. I have had people use a delivery service in the past to bring my goods and found it to just add more complications to the deal. 

[alphafat 12]

The only thing i buy is bulk goods and i expect them to be delivered so i would never use it. If they don't at least give an option to deliver then i look elsewhere. I have had people use a delivery service in the past to bring my goods and found it to just add more complications to the deal. 

 

Courier work usually is, but if something like this were to take ship I'd think forms would start to be in order. Either a google doc or have each order written on a piece of papyrus.

[Gollum 30]

at what point does the seller get the coin from the purchaser, do they have to mail a garbage item and have it cost them in postage? do you pay the price to the seller in expectation of the buyer paying you? do you bring the coins back on the return journey?

Edited April 14, 2014 by Gollum

[alphafat 12]

I'm not entirely sure yet, I'm about to go to bed. But I would think, half value of order(not including the cost of postage) would be given to the producer of goods when the order is picked up, then when the transaction is completed, either an alt would meet said producer and give other half of the value of the order. Courier fee would be like the mailbox, paid up front or COD.

 

i.e. someone orders 2k dirt, let's say at 2s. 1s is given to wurmian selling the dirt, when the 2s is picked up and the order dropped off, alt gives the other silver to the wurmian selling dirt.

 

But yeah, I'm not entirely sure yet; I'm sure some would be uncomfortable with that way.

[Jakenheimer 63]

If you proved reliable, then I might be interested in your services.

[Dairuka 888]

This thread seems to come up once every three months.

 

It usually fizzles out before it begins, but if it does get off the ground - all it takes is one botched order to collapse the whole infrastructure. Either that or the person doing the shipping gets inundated, and burned out. (Because shipping isn't profitable, nor is it fun.)

[Marshlander 188]

What happens when an order is there but the wares aren't?

 

Did the trade port deed holder decide to use his rights to empty the wares?

 

Did the captain of the supplying trade route not manage to log in and perform the transport before you arrive?

 

Where are the wares at that point, and how much will that set back the delivery? Who is responsible for keeping track of a trade port's inventory and the status of one delivery order at any point in time?

 

It just seems pretty hard to guarantee a delivery date when so many factors and complications are involved.

 

Maybe it'd be easier to just establish 1-2 trade ports yourself and then partner up with others, so that you could exchange your stock and make a tally of goods exchanged at the end of the month to share the profits?

[Elen 1,013]

I'd use one here and there, maybe twice a year.

[fatboy 448]

id use it, but main problem i see is, people start these things, then stopem because the idea fails them or they cant get a crew together to do it.

[Ursine 6]

You'll make it only if mail dies.  Otherwise the demand for he service is not enough to keep the lights on in the operation.

[alphafat 12]

What happens when an order is there but the wares aren't?

 

Did the trade port deed holder decide to use his rights to empty the wares?

 

Did the captain of the supplying trade route not manage to log in and perform the transport before you arrive?

 

Where are the wares at that point, and how much will that set back the delivery? Who is responsible for keeping track of a trade port's inventory and the status of one delivery order at any point in time?

 

It just seems pretty hard to guarantee a delivery date when so many factors and complications are involved.

 

Maybe it'd be easier to just establish 1-2 trade ports yourself and then partner up with others, so that you could exchange your stock and make a tally of goods exchanged at the end of the month to share the profits?

Moving the wares to the designated trade port would be the duty of the seller.

 

If you're saying what if one of the trade port owner's decided to acquire(steal) the orders. I'm not entirely sure, i'd say we'd make up for lost product(in value). But I would make sure that the owner is trustworthy by asking the server.

 

I'd keep in email/facebook/something other than the forums contact with the captains, but I wouldn't think this to be a constant shipment schedule. Like every 5th or 6th day ships, when there aren't a lot of captains for the ships. Then when more employees join, the gaps between shipments would shorten. I don't do much apart from college atm but for the foreseeable future I could handle crossing the servers every 5-6 days.

 

A google document would be put up separately for stock, each drop off and pick up the captain of the ship would update said google doc, in turn he would update the port owner of the situation. (email, ingame or forum PM) Or a small chest can be put in front of the storage facilities for filled orders and the papyrus with the order written on it, is dropped into the small chest. (or a combination of the chest and google doc, as a contingency check)

 

It does seem hard to guarantee a delivery date, but I'm sure the a route could be made to be completed within 12-14 hours of sail time(slightly less possibly for ports without any orders and as always, will depend on the wind)

 

It probably would be easier to establish trade ports with a few friends, but this way the money could be distributed; and those who allow the port to be established(with storage) at their deed, get a percentage of sales.

 

 

You'll make it only if mail dies.  Otherwise the demand for he service is not enough to keep the lights on in the operation.

This would be more for bulk items though, like dirt, planks, bricks, ect.

[KunAlt 844]

The only way I would use such a system is if the courier pays me in advance for the goods as a safe measure.

[Sevenless 385]

As a concept for you:

 

Buy bulk goods without delivery for sub market pricing (Maybe arrange to shave 10-20c off per 1k?), pick them up and stockpile them on a ship (12,900 items can fit on a knarr). Resell them at normal prices and profit effectively off the delivery.

 

Best of luck either way

[Ayes 3,715]

So, I was thinking of trying to establish a Courier company, I know many have tried

What do you all think?

 

Yes, many have tried and departed, gave up, quit, kaput. I predict any further attempts will meet with the same results. Why? Because although it sounds like a good idea, it is not. Why? Because it takes consistent dedicated effort over time on the part of the person who starts a service like this. Then it takes them having the creative capacity of acquiring customers who are willing to pay for this service. Then the players have to believe that it is worth paying for what is provided by this service. The person who provides this service must also make coins sufficient for the effort they put out.

 

This is why it has failed in the past and will in the future. It is simply not worth the time and effort put into creating this service, nor is there sufficient demand for it. Of course there is nothing preventing you from trying and finding out for yourself but I would have no interest in using the service. A much better course would be for R & Dev's to create ways in game to facilitate swifter travel and trade of goods, which seems just as a remote possibility as a successful courier service.

 

=Ayes=

Edited April 14, 2014 by Ayes

[Issle 793]

"It kicks ass. For as long as it lasts, it kicks ass I tell you." - Issle

 

The untold story of Issle's transportation business.

 

Let's roll the time back 2 years. I'm a young and innocent wurmian not touched by the flames of war yet. I am a terrible grinder and totally unable to make any money. Most of my time, I spend in other peoples villages and I have a very tough time settling down for a moment. Most of the people I meet progress much faster than me and setup their own deeds eventually, something, for some reason I constantly decline to do. I don't have many options in my hands so I decided to set sail. The plan was simple, get some silver with paypal to buy boats, formulate a pricing plan, code a maping util and start doing business.

 

It wasn't so easy though ...

 

Finding a boat during that period was very difficult. There was an under the tables ship union going on and the best I could get was a Knarr for 20s in 30 days since there were 4 people in queue before my Knarr starts getting build. So I did what every rule abiding citizen of wurm would do. I bribed a member of the ship union ( he knows ) to cut in line. I managed to get my Knarr in 3 days and he told his other customers that he had real life business to take care so their order would get delayed. Fools ... Getting a sailing boat was easier. I just bribed. Again. I knew the trick now.

 

Advertising ...

 

So I started a topic in the forums. I charged by the kilometer and soon a lot of people showed interest. I was very excited but that excitment didn't last long. My first delivery was a bulk one. A couple of pumpkins from Crystal Lake to Indi north. So I set sail on my knarr having the map at my side and a compass to figure out the way. Once I reached the cave canal in Inner Sea things got really bad. Pushing your first knarr into a dark, scary ( for a 1 fs guy ) cave for the first time is a terrifying experience. After a lot of though I decided to go for it. And so I did. Sailing inside the canal was spooky, I lighted my lamp and soon I reached the exit. Only to get my knarr stuck while going out. After a bit of talking I figured out that I had to call a GM. After issuing a support ticket, time started passing by faster for some reason while I was waiting with a stucked boat at the canal exit. An hour later, I had to leave to go to University so there was no way to complete the misssion. I f ucked up. I logged out and left the mission pending. My client replied at my topic and gave me bad credits. 

 

Never stop going ...

 

But I was never planning to back down. I'm a sailor for gods shake. So after explaining myself I restarted. This time with more experience. After a week I managed to complete some jobs and get some hard earned money. The wind was very bad sometimes so I had to afk sail while doing other things around the house. Couple of days later, there was the Sermons going on around the Kinos Area in Inner Sea. Those were some good days. I made a lot of cash by transporting people's Priest Alt's to and from the Sermon area. A little bit later, the RoS cast was to be done in Deliverance. This was even better, longer distances, more people that wanted to be transported. Those were by far the best days. For a month I was sleeping in random Inns, waking up in foreign distant places and meeting a lot of people. I almost went to Chaos too. A well know Jenn Kellon, Fooli I believe was ordering a thousand of War Arrows from Pingpong ( ? ) and I got offered the job. I declined cause I was really scared of setting foot in chaos. But it would have been a very good experience, I don't know about the outcome though. Who knows, I might have met some JK people and eventually convert to that kingdom. Can you imagine ?

 

The days of the decline ...

 

Eventually travelling became a routine. I knew most places, each trip was not different anymore. This is it, when you reach the point where no compass is needed. You sail looking the mountains and the stars in the sky can tell you the West ( yes that's actually doable ). I was getting good cash, but no skills. My interests changed, I wanted to settle down and start a farming business, maybe plant a deed. It didn't last long, from what I can remember about two months. But as long as it lasted, it was a great experience and a good way to learn other people's traditions and culture. It's something that I more than suggest you to try out. Don't make it a lifetime occupation. Do it as long as you enjoy it.

 

"θα μείνω πάντα ιδανικός κι ανάξιος εÏαστής
των μακÏυσμένων ταξιδιών και των γαλάζιων πόντων, 
και θα πεθάνω μια βÏαδιά σαν όλες τις βÏαδιές, 
χωÏίς να σχίσω τη θολή γÏαμμή των οÏιζόντων." - Nikos Kavvadias

 

I'll always be an ideal but unworthy lover

of the distant trips and the blue seas;

and I will die one night, like all the other nights

without causing any unrest to the blue horizon lines.

[Kianga 219]

If sailing would be a skill (higher sailing giving markable higher speeds) then the whole idea of courier-services might be a lot more viable. However, it isn't (yet?).

 

And second is the whole trust-issue. Goes with a game involving RL-money I guess... Not an easy one to solve.

 

Best of luck though: I would love to see these kinds of services being a viable way to go, and in fact I think it fits (or should fit) perfectly well in a game like Wurm - a shame it never seems to work out!

Edited April 16, 2014 by Kianga

[Megacide 10]

I was one of the ones who started a shipping company.  It went well for a while. I think I averaged about 1-2s per trip.  The problem that you will discover very quickly is you spend a LOT of time in the boat.  People dont want to wait around for you to stack orders to delivery multiple at once.  You are sailing as soon as you get confirmation of delivery.  I realized that most of my game time was spent AFK sailing and I decided that I was not really that happy using my game time doing it.

[Rauros 232]

Courier and trading routes could be a little different: if you schedule a trade route betweeen some docks, people trading can just drop at the dock before you start sailing, load the goods and pay you.
Goods loaded, you can just sail to the next harbor and stock there the items that goes next to that place, so people picking up the goods could simply get to the dock and pick them up when the scheduled times arrives.
I feel that the new, big server supports much better that kind of activity, as the distances will be longer and the playerbase will be much more than the other servers; also, i like that thing!

[Suntan 83]

Issles story is an important one, and if the game mechanics had been different he pretty much would be the transportation king of Freedom. However, we do need a  way of modernizing the mail system if it is not going to be used for mail. Make it into a drop box payment system, much like a locker that a delivery could be made to and a customer could pick up from.