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ScarfaceRo

A simple, yet very important, question for the DEVs

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Actually, I think my point of views are most logical. It makes absolutely no sense to make a server that big, which would spread the population of PVE players even thinner.

Johan can say there is no plans to merge. That might be very true... as of now. Give it 6 months or a year. ;)

Except there's much reasoning. In pve, most people want room to build without others messing with there things. I'm not saying they want to be me and have nobody else in site, but a good portion of players I see like having there own land they, and nobody else, can manage.

Just the opposite of pvp really.

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Except there's much reasoning. In pve, most people want room to build without others messing with there things. I'm not saying they want to be me and have nobody else in site, but a good portion of players I see like having there own land they, and nobody else, can manage.

Just the opposite of pvp really.

It's 16 times the size of Indy...

I have a big deed too.... there's still plenty of room for more here on Indy, and that's before the enclosure rule is done away with.

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It's 16 times the size of Indy...

I have a big deed too.... there's still plenty of room for more here on Indy, and that's before the enclosure rule is done away with.

True enough, I pray they keep the size. What's it really going to hurt? If people want to live close, they easily can. If they don't, they can move as far away as they like.

Doesn't hurt anyone, considering the players get to choose were they want to be.

And yeah, I hear Inde has a lot of room, only reason I'll never go there is a few players there I very much wish to avoid. They stay off deli, I stay off Inde.

+ I really, really hate mountains... I don't want any server to ever be flat, but I also don't want pure mountains. (Currently have two 55x77 ish deeds in a flat area, and a 30x40 ish one on mountain) sometimes it's fun, but meh...Inde isn't for me

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Doesn't hurt anyone, considering the players get to choose were they want to be.

 

It spreads the playerbase even more.

And that's one issue that most PVE players have agreed on. No one wants the base spread more than it is.

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It spreads the playerbase even more.

And that's one issue that most PVE players have agreed on. No one wants the base spread more than it is.

How does having the player base spread hurt on pve?

(Honest question, because I've got multiple accounts and support myself and alliance, so I don't really see this "hurting" anyone)

Also, I've seen quiet the opposite reaction... A lot of people want land. We had 4-5 people recently leave deli to go to cele because it's to crowded, and I've also seen 3-4 come to deli looking for people to group up with.

In the end, the player is going to choose to OP-in for interacting with others. Or OP-out and go away from everyone and live as a hermit, no matter server size I think.

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How does having the player base spread hurt on pve?

A big part of PVE's existence is because of trade. The further everyone is, the more of a PITA it is to trade and the less you see of it.

Also, there's the community thing. I, personally, don't play for the social aspect, but a lot do. More servers = less on yours.

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Who is hurts is Code Club. And how it does it is by paying for a server powerful enough to hold such a map (16x size won't mean 16x times the resources or costs, but for sure it will be 4x or more). And we all know we don't talk about a rich company - heck we talk about a company who made a big deal for hiring 1 (one)! new person.


 


Such a big expense must have a justification. That's what raised my questions and concerns.


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Who is hurts is Code Club. And how it does it is by paying for a server powerful enough to hold such a map (16x size won't mean 16x times the resources or costs, but for sure it will be 4x or more). And we all know we don't talk about a rich company - heck we talk about a company who made a big deal for hiring 1 (one)! new person.

 

Such a big expense must have a justification. That's what raised my questions and concerns.

And that point shouldn't be cast aside.

There has been a lot of time/money/resources put into this. There is a reason for it, besides "oh, hai PVE... here's a new server".

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Any new server should bring in players, new ones and returning ones alike, the question is if it's worth moving servers for when already settled on another one


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I see that being a healthy cause: delivery services could be made possible.

Though I doubt it, the people that want any interaction with other players would just stick close to the "main" groups of villages made more then likely.

Inde's big, I'm not really sure how it looks there, but I'm going to take a guess and say that is how it sort of is there? They likely have heavy deeded areas near each other, in big popular areas, then hermits way out of the way.

But I do now semi-see your point, while I'm able to do all my own gear and and things to 90+ql and high enchantments, not everyone has access to that themselves, and if they try to hermit-it out, and realize they need to trade, it could cause a few problems. But there's always a solution out there somewhere. :P

And thanks for responding without going at me for asking, don't see much of that the past few months sadly.

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Any new server should bring in players, new ones and returning ones alike, the question is if it's worth moving servers for when already settled on another one

Have you ever paid attention to Cele's average player count?

That server shouldn't even exist.

Is it worth moving servers? Well, it's happened in the past. The bulk of the player base gets over it and moves. Builds grander on the next map.

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Have you ever paid attention to Cele's average player count?

That server shouldn't even exist.

...

:(

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Wurm has never advertised before. I'd guess it is going to do some and wants to make sure there is plenty of land for the influx.


 


I'd love more land too but I'm not paying 10s to 20s a month in upkeep. My dreamy rumor would be that Xanadu has reduced deed costs and will reinstate the old 50 tile no deed boarder around all deeds.


 


I'm still very doubtful of Wurm servers handling all the other processing requirements that make Wurm fun. Land, aka a big map, is only one part of it. We need herds animals, buildings galore, and hordes of items. 800,000 creatures needed to match Indy's creature density. Tile processing algorithms that can do 16x more tiles (grow trees, grow farm crops, collapse cave, spread grass, make for/bot stuff, bla bla bal...). Likely 10's of millions of items.


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I'd love more land too but I'm not paying 10s to 20s a month in upkeep. My dreamy rumor would be that Xanadu has reduced deed costs and will reinstate the old 50 tile no deed boarder around all deeds.

 

You will never see the resurrection of AoCs. Just ain't happening. Rolf's revised and current deed system is far more lucrative and doesn't give the player base a false entitlement of ownership to tiles they're not paying for.... which will finally happen once he tosses the enclosure rule to the curb.

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Has anyone thought that if this huge server works ect. That they might be able to put deli exo and cele all on the same server. Or even add those three to indi. This would cut travel time a bit but even better cut cost to the servers as Less needed?

And that comment I saw. About cele should not exist. Cus population is low. Shhhhh. I love my new home it's open areas and not to close to anyone. It's nice on cele. Easy to have huge deeds too . But no one read this. Cus I'd like to keep it under 100 of us

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Just when you thought there couldn't be any more Xanadu threads!


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Just when you thought there couldn't be any more Xanadu threads!

 

I started it 8 days ago. Redbaron answered. From my point of view case closed. Not my fault people keep reviving it. :P

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No big; though, it never fails to amaze me the heights some of the more wild rumors can reach.


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The main reason people are reviving this thread is that many players want a road-map of which way this game is heading, and of course more information on the new server, which wouldn't be a issue if they didn't say they might try to release it in 2-4 weeks if everything went OK.

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You will never see the resurrection of AoCs. Just ain't happening. Rolf's revised and current deed system is far more lucrative and doesn't give the player base a false entitlement of ownership to tiles they're not paying for.... which will finally happen once he tosses the enclosure rule to the curb.

I didn't say Aoc....I said no deed board, the thing that was in place before AoC was put in place. Although, your opinions of what is lucrative or "false entitlement" I don't agree with. Seems people don't see the value in customer happiness. If a server has lots of unused excess space - space which players won't buy as its too close to another - that is excess waste. Whoever designed the new deed system assumed Wurm could force people close together and increase its revenue per a game tile. In my opinion a better plan is offer more space for less money and capitalize on high volumes of happy customers instead of low volumes of rich people.

 

To put it another way, land which no one will buy can be turned into something positive by giving more to the near by deed. Manufacturing often has waste that is not as valuable to others. Further, these manufactures often find ways to make the byproduct beneficial. This could be anything from a cheese manufacture selling whey powder to a bakery donating day old bread. Wurm can redirect space around deeds to increase customer happiness. This is what AoC did very well and in my opinion it was a great system.

Edited by joedobo
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Has anyone thought that if this huge server works ect. That they might be able to put deli exo and cele all on the same server. Or even add those three to indi. This would cut travel time a bit but even better cut cost to the servers as Less needed?

The thought did cross my mind. Although, the test proved that Wurm's server can't handle a slice of what makes Wurm fun. What would happen if we added two or three times the people online, 10's of thousands of buildings, 100's of thousands of creatures, 10's of millions of items, and tile processing algorithms that can attend to the environment with daily tile-checked-per-a-day counts similar to smaller servers (bigger siver, more tiles and a need to daily check a tile the same number of times as on smaller servers; Which means Xanadu needs to check tiles around 16x faster).

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AoC

* Before 2009 there were deeds of fixed sizes and 100 tiles around where noone could put a deed. The land inbetween was free for all and this lead to subburbs around the starter deed Newtown on JKH.

* In 2009 this was changed to the Area of Control (on the home servers only?). The 50 tiles around the deed where under the deeds control. They could allow building and destruction of fences, roads and buildings. With this change the subburbs started to decay because the house owners could not repair their buildings anymore.

* In 2010 the current deed scheme was created with flexible deed and perimeter sizes. Control over the perimeter kind of stayed the same. Prices for the deed tiles dropped to compensate for the new price on the perimeter tiles.

#2 made it easy to hog huge areas of land but with the current perimeter rules the whole area is not as protected from destruction as the AoC was.

#1 had the problem that you could not control if you actually wanted some breathing room. Everybody could build right next to your deed border and the owner had no control over it.

Edited by ago

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Xanadu, it sounds really cool, it's how I would have wanted the game from start. BUT, I don't see how this can turn out to be a good thing for people playing on the old servers.  If this new server is introduced with 3D mines and rivers, the old servers will be just old and outdated, they will slowly rot away. People will be angry because all thier effort has gone to waste and their already diminishing trader revenues will go down to nothing when people start moving. And what about PvP:ers, they are denied all the new features? Or will you introduce PvP zones on Xanadu?


 


No, you better announce some more info pretty soon about this. What we have been told so far is actually bad for the current game. It doens't promote spending more time and money on what we currently have. 


 


Sound like this could be pretty far into the future though.. so, currently I'm more worried what will happen when my 1 year subscriptions runs out at the end of May...


Edited by Torgrim

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* Before 2009 there were deeds of fixed sizes and 100 tiles around where noone could put a deed. The land inbetween was free for all and this lead to subburbs around the starter deed Newtown on JKH.

* In 2009 this was changed to the Area of Control (on the home servers only?). The 50 tiles around the deed where under the deeds control. They could allow building and destruction of fences, roads and buildings. With this change the subburbs started to decay because the house owners could not repair their buildings anymore.

* In 2010 the current deed scheme was created with flexible deed and perimeter sizes. Control over the perimeter kind of stayed the same. Prices for the deed tiles dropped to compensate for the new price on the perimeter tiles.

#2 made it easy to hog huge areas of land but with the current perimeter rules the whole area is not as protected from destruction as the AoC was.

#1 had the problem that you could not control if you actually wanted some breathing room. Everybody could build right next to your deed border and the owner had no control over it.

Darn forgot villagers where 100 tiles not 50. Homesteads where 50 tiles.

 

Your other comments aren't valid from the perspective of smaller homestead deeds. In fact when the new deed system came out it was originally more expensive per a tile for the size 5 homestead. Someone got smart and reduced the customer deed purchase price to equal size 5. 

 

Your also totally ignoring my main point. And that is that no one is using, and is if fact fighting over, the land between deeds. Why, because people don't want to live close together. This close together or force-people-into-villages mentality isn't representative of most wurm players. The beauty of the old AoC rules is it gave all deeds a nice border and gave the near by deeds the most control over that bordering area. imo, the only problem with AoC system was size5 villages. The rest of it was just fine.

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I was not ignoring anything. I was just stating facts.

The land inbetween the deeds will get sought after when the location is more important than the distance to the neighbours. Water access, a flat coast and some rock for a mine will draw enough attention. I don't know if the 16x bigger server will provide plenty coastal spots to make every player happy but then there's again the size of the server. Many of the merchant owners may want to be close to a central market place. So they intentionally try to gang up instead of trying to seclude themselves.

Another issue *I* had with AoC was the tendency of some players to fence it all in. This stay-off-my-lawn mentality is not working well with the open world design of wurm. It's a real bummer if you hit an seemingly endless fence with just trees on both sides. I can understand the need to have open land around the deed. But I can't understand if they want the open land closed off.

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