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Berris

We don't need 'CA' title/position

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On some occasions I found the public chat make fun or look down of newbies instead helping them. Gladly, most time there always someone that step in and give the proper answer or some people are only joking: make fun for a single line but then quickly give the right answer.

^^^   Help channel + CA = confidence in the answer.   Even when the CA has been proven wrong (in my experience) I've never seen any backlash or argument about it.  So, I really don't think it's about title/prestige or holding oneself above the 'average' player.  

 

-1 to suggestion

+1 to ability to report on questionable CA

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Keep CA's, they are helpful.

 

But stop the hardline attitude over CA HELP.  

<<SNIP>>

So bottom line.  Keep the CA's, just ditch with the stupid "Q&A ONLY" rules in the CA HELP channel, and replace with something more reasonable like "helpful and/or informative discussion ONLY, also jokes that Koreal finds funny are OK".

 

Someone needs a hug.   Nonetheless, it begs the question as to if the CA's have any training or coordination so as to provide a consistent service across the board?  Some are more tolerant than others, apparently.   I think the test is whether the conversation is being disruptive.  Then, do all CA's agree on what 'disruptive' means?

 

Curious.

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I understand exactly where Berris comes from with this thread, but after reading some of the replies I can see why some would like the CA title to stay. However, hear me out and understand that this does not spawn from jealousy from Berris' side, neither from wishing to belittle the work that the CAs do.

While we do want to believe that everyone wants to become a CA to help people out it is a fairly well-known fact that some people only become CAs for the title itself. Others choose to become CAs because they know that in order to become a CM (i.e. be able to exert power) they need to first have been a CA. Many of these work really hard in order to distinguish themselves just enough so that they will get the title, but after that we hardly ever see them answer any questions in CA Help again. It is possible that they are otherwise occupied with something official, but it gives a bad impression of the Wurm staff that there are names constantly on display in CA Help that never say anything.

Then there are those with a genuine interest in helping people out that are truly great CAs and while they certainly deserve thanks and acknowledgement I know that they would still help people out even without a fancy title. Truly awesome people with a great knowledge of the game that try their very hardest to help new and old players alike when they have questions that need to be answered.

Sadly this brings us to the last type of CA, the ones that either respond with "I don't know that" or a horribly incorrect answer. Not once or twice, but consistently. To my understanding there is some sort of established Q&A cheat sheet for the most commonly asked questions that the CAs are supposed to seek guidance from when they cannot easily find it on the wiki or simply don't know the answer. However, it is obvious that this sheet is not referred to as often as it perhaps should. Sometimes even information that is easily found on the wiki is overlooked. The will to help people is there - But not the means of answering, and consistently giving out incorrect information is just as bad as not replying at all.

My suggested solution for this would not be to remove the CA position, because there are some amazing CAs out there that new and old players should know to look up if they have questions. These players have earned a little bit of extra respect for helping others out for nothing in return except for the smiles they bring. No, my suggestion would be to purge the CA staff. Go through logs and look at who's really done what and when.

Edited by Aeris
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I applied for CA because I like to help the community.. Are my answers always right? No. But I admit when I am wrong and am glad for the correction. Do I always know the answer, no.. But I do make an effort to try and find it for someone. I do have the title, I don't use it because I like my current title.


 


I don't over moderate the channel, if it is a healthy discussion that is beneficial to everyone, I don't say anything. If it is random chat, I need to ask them to take it to freedom or PM's. I can't force anyone to do so. I welcome any and all help from those that don't have the title to answer questions. If I know they are incorrect, yes I will correct them, just as anyone else would. CA's are the front runners for customer service in the game. We free up the GM's for support calls. I donate my time, just as I had before without the title... I just have more access than the normal person to make sure you get the answer you need.


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-1

if it even need to be said.

i like the current structure and i stick by it :P   :ph34r:

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I think perhaps the main issue here is making it more clear to new players that the CA help staff are, in fact, just normal players volunteering their time to help answer the questions of new and old players alike. And that the answers they give can't/aren't always going to be 100% correct, but rather an answer they give based on the best of their own knowledge / personal experience(s).  


 


Like some of the previous post have pointed out, when a new player sees a CA in CA help they take on faith, because they see they are in fact CA, that the answer this person gives is going to be the definitive answer to their question.  This answer will most likely supersede what any other player says in the new players eyes, even though the other player may have a more correct answer to the question. I know I personally felt this way as a new player coming into Wurm Online a couple years back. I found out later this hurt me as a new player, taking the advice of a CA help over that of another player who also suggested something (that was a better way of going about a problem I had) in CA all because they weren't a CA.  Then also coming to find out later on that it didn't take quite as much as I thought it did to become a CA, and it wasn't really based on some of amount of time played.


 


I fear other players may go through the same experience with some of the questions they ask in CA help, listening to the advice of the CA perhaps over that of another player, who may have actually have more experience in-game experience and knowledge than that of the CA, but a new player is never going to know that. 



So, bottom line, please make it more clear to new players what exactly a CA is. My solution would be to include a link in the message that comes up when the CA help tab comes on to a forum post that describes more clearly what a CA help is and what they can expect from a CA. 


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Talking about regular players answering questions in CA Help vs CA.   Regular players have the ability to ignore people and the CA HELP tab the CA's don't. 

 

I help out in the CA channel when I'm online, but it's not a requirement for me to watch the channel and reply.   I don't have a problem with CA's being a bit special since they are suppose to monitor the channel whenever they are online.  Besides that they sign off on trouble tickets and the like.  They don't have a lot of power, but the do help out quite a bit.

 

Ignore's don't work on ca even if you are not a ca.

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12:41:00  Aeris has received the title Berris' Spokesperson When He's Out On The Town.


 


Good to see so many opinions; it's been an enlightening debate so far and if nothing else some people (myself included) understand the CA role a little better now.  As always it's a shame that a few folks feel the need to attack someone's integrity rather than debate their ideas, but thanks very much to everyone else  :) 


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CA's have proven useful plenty of times imho.


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the CA title has exatly two purposes: It gives them authority over the CA channel and it gives what they say some credit.

 

While  there are a lot of hepfull people, a lot of them are trying to be helpfull despite having no clue what they are talking about. A CA is expected to check and veryvy their answers.

 

Afaik, CAs even have CM power within the channel. So it gets moderated appropriately and it's somewhat a stepping stone and test to full CM.

 

If there are some CAs that, as you say fail at the task, that is a reason to remove that particular CA, not the title entirely.

 

In that way CA acts as a filter for suitable CMs. Sure, CMs could be selected directly, but would you rather have them mess up with an answer in CA help, or mess up with your support ticket?

 

As for player confusion: thats hardly the problem of the title, but rather players confusing each other. I think there is equal confusion about the CM and GM titles. For example, how many people know that a /support ticket doen't go to the GM, but to the CM?

 

Chat Moderators is where /support tickets go to?

 

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard the Staff of a MMO do, ever.

 

GMs should get the /support tickets and only GMs. Chat Mods are just that... Chat Moderators... or should be by industry standards. No wonder we got CAs trying to Police Chat, we got CMs pretending to be GMs..... and Rolf wants to lesson the workload of GMs? What workload? (It looks to me like Wurm really does need CAs after all with the way things are set up)

 

That there's where the confusion comes from. Right from the Top. Rolf can run things around here how he wants to but it seems like gibberish to me. No wonder most of his decisions are confusing to me... he doesn't even use industry standard practices on mmo staff positions and roles.

Edited by Kyrmius

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Chat Moderators is where /support tickets go to?

 

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard the Staff of a MMO do, ever.

 

GMs should get the /support tickets and only GMs. Chat Mods are just that... Chat Moderators... or should be by industry standards. No wonder we got CAs trying to Police Chat, we got CMs pretending to be GMs..... and Rolf wants to lesson the workload of GMs? What workload? (It looks to me like Wurm really does need CAs after all with the way things are set up)

 

That there's where the confusion comes from. Right from the Top. Rolf can run things around here how he wants to but it seems like gibberish to me. No wonder most of his decisions are confusing to me... he doesn't even use industry standard practices on mmo staff positions and roles.

 

It's my understanding /support goes to a CM/GM pool. CM can take care of a lot of questions that inevitably end up there, bug reports, etc. leaving GMs free (er) to deal with "My character is trapped in a roof and I can't play" concerns (semi-recent bug, not common example) in a timely manner.

 

edit - just for clarity ... free (er) does not mean they aren't also working on those issues! "My understanding" means just that. 

Edited by Gypsy
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Funny thing is i  bought a ca account so i guess i am a ca now too....well they have the title anyway never have turned on the ca channel to see if they are still active, lol

 

Isn't CA/CM/GM accounts cannot be sold?

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Isn't CA/CM/GM accounts cannot be sold?

Well it just has the title it is not an actual CA and that is one of the issues being brought up here. 

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-1

If you want to be a CA go and apply, you could of applied in the time it took you to write this.

 

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Chat Moderators is where /support tickets go to?

 

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard the Staff of a MMO do, ever.

 

GMs should get the /support tickets and only GMs. Chat Mods are just that... Chat Moderators... or should be by industry standards. No wonder we got CAs trying to Police Chat, we got CMs pretending to be GMs..... and Rolf wants to lesson the workload of GMs? What workload? (It looks to me like Wurm really does need CAs after all with the way things are set up)

 

That there's where the confusion comes from. Right from the Top. Rolf can run things around here how he wants to but it seems like gibberish to me. No wonder most of his decisions are confusing to me... he doesn't even use industry standard practices on mmo staff positions and roles.

 

In this case CM means Community Manager not chat moderators,

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-1

If you want to be a CA go and apply, you could of applied in the time it took you to write this.

 

 

Did you actually read the thread.

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Did you actually read the thread.

I tried but all I could see on my screen was bla bla bla I'm hurt that I'm not a CA.

This really does not effect the OP at all and the current system works fine.

Edited by AlexLong

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I tried but all I could see on my screen was bla bla bla I'm hurt that I'm not a CA.

If you can't process what you read then perhaps you should take a deep breath and wait with replying. "Yo momma" replies aren't very constructive, nor useful.

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Chat Moderators is where /support tickets go to?

 

That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard the Staff of a MMO do, ever.

 

GMs should get the /support tickets and only GMs. Chat Mods are just that... Chat Moderators... or should be by industry standards. No wonder we got CAs trying to Police Chat, we got CMs pretending to be GMs..... and Rolf wants to lesson the workload of GMs? What workload? (It looks to me like Wurm really does need CAs after all with the way things are set up)

 

That there's where the confusion comes from. Right from the Top. Rolf can run things around here how he wants to but it seems like gibberish to me. No wonder most of his decisions are confusing to me... he doesn't even use industry standard practices on mmo staff positions and roles.

Why? Wurm has had both, at first it was only GMs who dealt with /support calls. That just didn't work, because there aren't enough GMs to deal with every support call in a reasonable time. Later it was introduced that CMs can also take support calls, which worked out much better for staff and players.

The roles are actually really simple and people like you are trying to make it look much more complicated than it has to be. CAs help in CA Help, CMs moderate chat and deal with support calls, GMs deal with support calls, especially ones CMs can't help with (account issues, rule violations etc). The original question of why CAs are needed is very valid, because you can't look at its responsibility and know right away why it needs to be a staff position. Luckily a few people have explained why they are needed already in this thread.

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We need CMs yes, CAs not so much.

Community Managers actually do a lot "behind the scenes" that folks often don't realise. There are a great many /support calls that are resolved just by having a knowledgeable staff member walking them through the solution. There are also chat moderation issues that are dealt with quietly, rather than just all orange text in public. Adding the CMs to the support system was one of the best decisions made, as it frees up GMs to focus on issues where their powers are needed.

I don't think Berris was suggesting removal of Community Managers here. Rather, he - like me - questions the role and the need for Community Assistants. Over the past couple of years, I have grown to really dislike CA chat, because it seems to be a hotbed of misinformation; too often coming from CAs. At the very least, we need some better training for CAs, and a better protocol for answering questions. There is nothing wrong with saying "I don't know - let's both find out" or simply not answering. When someone has the CA label before their name in chat, it definitely suggests their answers are an official response; and what they say will be accepted "as gospel" by newer players, even over veteran players with much more in-game experience, who are also in the chat trying to help. It becomes awkward trying to correct someone speaking in bright blue text, and can come across as trying to challenge authority (because again, even though there is no special power, that title adds weight), when all you really want to do is make sure everyone is getting correct information.

So, I would also like to see the Community Assistant role removed. Just the fact that it is so confused with CM is enough to warrant it, for me.

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If you can't process what you read then perhaps you should take a deep breath and wait with replying. "Yo momma" replies aren't very constructive, nor useful.

No what isn't productive is; ranting about CA's. They do a good job so maybe you guys should just leave them alone... honslty you sound like a bunch of first world high schoolers that are complaining about the fact you didn't get the new iPhone.

Most of the people saying "We don't need them" have never even been one, all they know of CA's is what they see, not anything that gos on behind the scences

And you all need to stop taking my silly remarks as litteral in meaning. Clearly they are not.

 

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A problem I see with removing CA is, imagine somebody wants to apply for CM. We can check their behaviour in general, but that doesn't tell us how that person works in a team, how he deals with powers and how we currently work in the team.

When a player becomes CA, we get to see all these things. This makes it easier and safer for us to give someone the CM position. The person will also have his experiences when he was CA, because we often talk about things like chat moderation and support handling in the irc channels and the forums.

Personally I look at it as a 'CM-in-training' position, which makes me think it is important to the team. It just isn't quite that though, because some CAs choose to not become CMs.

When you see a CA give wrong answers more than just every once in a while, you should probably let the Lead Chat Moderator know, preferably with a bunch of examples. Nobody, not staff and not the players want to see CAs constantly giving wrong answers.

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Nice to see on-going intelligent debate devoid of ranting and silly comments, with a few trivial exceptions.  And indeed maybe even the exceptions are useful, in their way...


Edited by Berris
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Community Assistants really don't do much more "behind the scenes" than helpful veteran players do.   That was part of my motivation for leaving my Community Manager position - I felt like I could do the part of the 'job' I enjoyed just as well without the label in front of my name.


 


BrQQQ brings up a good point about the CA position being something of a training ground for future CMs, though.  Putting that tag in front of someone's name may bring out some behaviours that weren't so noticeable before.


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No what isn't productive is; ranting about CA's. They do a good job so maybe you guys should just leave them alone... honslty you sound like a bunch of first world high schoolers that are complaining about the fact you didn't get the new iPhone.

Most of the people saying "We don't need them" have never even been one, all they know of CA's is what they see, not anything that gos on behind the scences

And you all need to stop taking my silly remarks as litteral in meaning. Clearly they are not.

 

Edited by FreeTineen
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