We don't need 'CA' title/position

[Berris 593]

 

And sorry, I dont wish to sound bad and I really dont mean to sound negative, but the concern about titles seems very vain and jealous to me.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Berris

[Viti 400]

I I am not sure if you meant that in a sarcastic way or not, haha. I just got the overall feelyou disliked the titles, and I can understand in a way that titles should not really be necesary and they might be used by people applying just for the titles, which is not good. It is just a very foreign concept to me cause it doesnt happen on my server at all.

 

If you suggested: If eel we should remove the titles cause we have many people on our server abusing it / doing it all for the title, then I would have said: Ok, I personally dont see the harm in it, but I can see where you come from. Remove the title, and if people then still answer and work as a CA constantly, it will show their proper motivation; namely helping new ones (or old ones, for that matter

 

In case you did mean it sarcastic, I am sorry I really didnt mean it as bad as it sounds. haha It is really just a very foreign concept to me to use titles as some sort of self empowerment

Edited April 5, 2014 by Viti

[Berris 593]

Yeah, I think we're on the same page Viti - we just have experience of different sevrers and of course that's bound to happen.

 

Good to have input from a satisfied customer of the CA service too!  Personally I'm not 'dissatisfied' per se, I just think the segregation and perception caused by the titles is more trouble than it seems to be worth in my experience and opinion.

 

Some good points have been made here in favour of the current system by various people and also we have highlighted some of the confusions and weaknesses very clearly.  Hopefully everyone can be agreed that this is what the suggestions forum is for and no hard feelings that people make and defend differing positions 

Edited April 5, 2014 by Berris

[Joemog 732]

I just don't like the concept of no discussion in the CA chat at all. It's pretty much only stuff that might as well be looked up on the Wurmpedia. Last time I didn't have my CA help turned off I told someone they were wrong about what they said and I got a mute warning.

[Viti 400]

Yes, I understand where you come from now and I think I simply read it in a different way as you intended, I am sorry, for that, english is not my native language and although I usually manage quite well, sometimes I screw up It is good we got to figure out we are on the same page. Even though I never seen it I fully agree titles shouldnt really be necessary. I think most of my knowledge comes from a CA that happens to be part of my deed who works his little behind off everyday for everyone.and goes through tremendous lengths to make sure what he says is actual truth to the point he builds houses, makes items and generally tries everything out if he is unsure about the answer, just so he can give a correct answer. He is also one of the only (real active) CAs we have, so I am guessing this is just a difference in experience compared with a more populated and popular server like yours.

 

Our CA is a really good man and he loves to help and I am rather sure he would continue to do so even without a title. If this is what is needed to weed the good from the bad; then you have my blessing, Berris

[Orb 259]

The community assistant title is a gadget and have nothing to do with the CA job, as said earlier you can have it even after loosing your CA status.

 

 

CA / CM are already doing the job for free. We got no bonuses, no pay, only the hate and griefing from some players and sometimes a "thank you" that keep us working. Anyone who want to join can do it. If you have a concern about a CA/CM/GM abusing his/her position the right thing to do is PMing one of the lead GMs or Enki.

 

The CA job is imho trying to give answers to the players, as well as checking the chat is going on properly (and the answers are good). Sometimes my answers are wrong or somehow incomplete. Game is changing all the time and we can't know everything. Trying to do our best is what we can do.

 

A name in the chat is also a good thing, since newbies will ask a question there if they see someone is sitting in that chat ready to help them (doesn't matter if the CA or another player answer). And you always have the PMs incoming about questions players don't want to ask directly.

I agree with Odynn, CAs are helpful people that for the most part make this game a better place. PM Enki if you think there's a bad apple. 

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

Afaik, CAs even have CM power within the channel.

We do not unfortunately.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Shrimpiie

[Seara 686]

We do not unfortunately.

 

Authority to moderate the channel with instructions, but not mute powers.

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

Aye, that.

[Belrindor 663]

Bottom line for me is that not ever CA,CM or GM for that matter is going to know every little thing about the game. There are constant changes and a lot are not even listed so how can anyone keep up with that? I guess they do the best they can and the CA is just a step to the CM that is very much needed to help with the /support calls.

 

Now there seems to be an issue with the titles on "old" member accounts but as for needing the CA spot to weed out the good from the bad i guess we kind of do need that if we want our future CMs to be any good. Maybe the CM should be the only officialialy titled players though..idk

 

Now the last thing that I want to do is step on the toes of unpaid volunteers. I think they mostly provide a good service.

 

That being said, I've found the regular players to be VASTLY more helpful than the CAs. In fact, 99% of the time when I need or needed an answer to something, I'd ask something in the CA and there would be no CA even there. Either regular folks would answer as helpfully as they could, or I asked in Freedom chat, and the majority of the time, got my answer quickly and without fuss.

 

Addendum: I'd also like to note that when possible conversations about mechanics should be made in the CA channel. NOT via PMs.

Why? Because all you are doing is shooting yourself in the foot and having to have the same conversation repeatedly.

 

I can't even tell you how many times SOMEONE ELSE asked a question in CA chat that I'd not even thought to ask, and got an answer that was incredibly helpful. Had that been a PM conversation, only ONE individual would have benefited, vs dozens.

 

So when possible, unless it's highly personal, keep the HELP chat in the HELP channel, and ENCOURAGE it's public use. Get away from that whole PM thing. All you are doing is making more work for yourselves.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Belrindor

[rosedragon 2,282]

That being said, I've found the regular players to be VASTLY more helpful than the CAs. In fact, 99% of the time when I need or needed an answer to something, I'd ask something in the CA and there would be no CA even there. Either regular folks would answer as helpfully as they could, or I asked in Freedom chat, and the majority of the time, got my answer quickly and without fuss.

 

On some occasions I found the public chat make fun or look down of newbies instead helping them. Gladly, most time there always someone that step in and give the proper answer or some people are only joking: make fun for a single line but then quickly give the right answer.

[Belrindor 663]

I also think the CA Help channel is over-moderated to the point of being a bit draconian. Whenever something is being explained, some CA gets a hair up their rear and says 'This is turning to a conversation, take it to PM.

 

(Yea, it was turning into a conversation, and a helpful one at that. Many times I've had to PM people to get an answer after a CA scared off the answerer, and so the helpful player likely had to type the same thing more than once.)

 

Or even worse, and I've seen this dozens of times thus far, some new player who doesn't even know his keyboard from his joystick will ask a question and a CA will pop off in various flavors of 'Take it to Freedom Chat!'. Usually the poor sot respond with... 'Sorry!' and that's all that is heard.

 

Now THIS is what PMs are for. Ya'll have got the whole concept bassackwards.

 

You PM something so you don't bash someone in public. PM that poor noob and explain the proper chat channel to him.

 

You publicly discuss things in the CA Help channel that may be of use to players following the channel, so as many people are helped with as little effort as possible.

 

I'll just say this... I've got over 20 years of customer service and experience running a help desk. Ya'll don't know jack frost about how to maximise communication effectively with minimal effort. And any attempt to school ya is seen as an 'attack'. So run it how ye will... which is usually by the seat of yer pants.

 

So here's a useful tip. Unless someone is REALLY doing something they shouldn't be, or is using CA Help for general blathering, leave it alone. People mouse up when you come down on them, especially if it's someone with a shiny title, and especially if they are a new player.

 

I've PM'd new people with answers before after they've been scared off by the CAs and almost to a 't' the response is... 'Man, they really jumped my crap, and I just asked a question...'

 

THAT is the effect you are having on noobs. Wise up and fix it.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Belrindor

[Martynas5 435]

-1 Removing CA won't help players at all.

[Klaa 4,872]

Meh. If the staff felt the CA is redundant, they would have removed it ages ago. In contrast the number of CA has been expanded quite a few times.

[Old_Lando 178]

Talking about regular players answering questions in CA Help vs CA.   Regular players have the ability to ignore people and the CA HELP tab the CA's don't. 

 

I help out in the CA channel when I'm online, but it's not a requirement for me to watch the channel and reply.   I don't have a problem with CA's being a bit special since they are suppose to monitor the channel whenever they are online.  Besides that they sign off on trouble tickets and the like.  They don't have a lot of power, but the do help out quite a bit.

[Koreal 108]

Keep CA's, they are helpful.

 

But stop the hardline attitude over CA HELP.  If the discussion is helpful to any newbies or players, and by helpful I mean it offers them information they might not be aware of about the mechanics or techniques of Wurm, then please just goddamn let it continue without derailing your own CA HELP channel with unhelpful bullcrap by taking the time to berate ME for putting my Platesmithing on pause to explain how Demise spells work or something.  So it sounds a bit "conversationey".  Is that causing you physical pain?  Are other questions getting skipped over with all the spam?  Is anyone being directly insulted?  Is the intent to troll, give bad info, or cause problems?  If you can't answer yes to any of these, yet still feel the need to verbally jump on MY ###### for helping... you don't deserve that CA tag.

 

CA should not have the ability to tell people to take offtopic conversation elsewhere.

Instead, they should have the responsibility to determine if the ongoing conversation is helpful and informative to newbies, or if it's causing any problems.  If it is not helpful or informative or directly answering a question, OR if it is causing problems with others trying to get help, THEN (and ONLY then) should the CA have the responsibility to step in and redirect the conversation either to another room or to a more helpful or informative topic.

 

Also, if the CA HELP room has been dead for awhile, and someone comes in and goes "What does a champion troll look like?". and one person posts a link to a picture of a champion troll, and a second person says "Exactly like your mother", do you really need to jump in the room and take it further off topic by going "Second Person, humor does not belong in CA HELP, please take it to KCHAT"??  Clearly it was a one-liner, made at a time when nobody's question was in danger of being missed entirely due to spam.  And if it IS during a busy time, even MORE reason for the CA not to add to the CA HELP spam by berating a player.  Instead, if it seems like it might happen often or in a disrupting manner, PM the player and ask them to stop.  The vast majority will, and will be further impressed by the respectful manner in which they were asked to cease, rather than being called out in public for "going offtopic" ignoring that calling the player out, within that same channel, is also "offtopic"

 

.

 

All that said, we have some great CA on Desertion.  There was one in particular I thought was a bad apple when I first started playing, but I haven't seen that person in over a year and a half so apparently that bad apple was removed a long time ago and it's been pretty smooth since then.  I only tend to see Elrohiir and Toeol in the CA HELP channel with the CA tag anymore, but I find them both to be wonderful at their roles, and good examples for why I believe the CA position still serves its purpose rather well.  Take away our MRH CA's and not only will the number of answered questions be cut in half or worse, but on top of that, many questions (especially with Epic PvP) are of a nature that should not be asked in public chat, and newbies don't know who to PM until they see that CA name in the CA HELP channel.

 

So bottom line.  Keep the CA's, just ditch with the stupid "Q&A ONLY" rules in the CA HELP channel, and replace with something more reasonable like "helpful and/or informative discussion ONLY, also jokes that Koreal finds funny are OK".

Edited April 5, 2014 by Koreal

[Ayes 3,715]

Pointless suggestion from the OP that seems based upon resentment more than anything else. If someone can not easily detect this I would suggest that they might hold the same underlying feelings put forth under the guise of the title not being necessary or useful. These various titled people within the game and forums volunteer their time to help in various ways. Having a title associated with their name points other players in their direction for the help that the title describes. This in no way prevents other players from doing the same in giving valid advice.

 

Absurd suggestion to remove their titles when there is this logic behind them and usefulness to them. Plus there is also some recognition of appreciation for having this title displayed. A better suggestion is to take some time to do some self-reflection into the causes for this resentment and the need to disguise it as being something other than that.

 

=Ayes=

[Keldun 335]

I think Berris question was quite legitimate, At first glance, the title did not seem to have actual purpose, while apparently giving some of them a false sense of entitlement. And some players are confused whether they have to put up with that.

 

There two different topics here: do we need the CA position? and: are the CAs really helpfull?

 

I think we have established what a CA should and shouldn't be in reference to both a regular player and a CM. In that regart I think the title has merrit.

 

It just needs to be made sure the people act accordingly. If you think one of them is out of line, first talk to them about it (preferably in PM) and if that is fruitless take it up with the head CA.

[Kadore 926]

Make a global CA channel to cut down on unnecessary staff bloat.

[Martynas5 435]

Make a global CA channel to cut down on unnecessary staff bloat.

[Pwent 113]

Can be too much to handle, better while split up in servers.

[Martynas5 435]

I wanted to compare with one game but it would be quite foolish to do . So i'm not recommending to do that.

Anyway that would be inconvenient then chat will be going all day and you have to scroll and scroll..

[Odynn 2,248]

CA Help is for Q&A about the game mechanism - and as such need to be moderated, if the question fit, we will do nothing, if you start arguing on what is doing this, and directing it to a topic/discussion/whatever, we will have to move it to freedom chat or PMs.

 

And sometimes, yes, questions are lost in the discussions, i've seen it, i missed some and i got some PMs later on to ask the question. Trying to keep it userfriendly is one of the best thing we can do.

 

PM : why do we answer them ? Well sometimes the players are scared of the trolls and others taunting (another reason i warn the players doing such things in CA Help chat. It's not a place to troll or berate others people), are afraid that their question might attract griefers, or a simply too shy. It also a matter of checking things directly with the CA with a better/easier discussion. And once again - We are trying to do our best to help everyone.

[Kadore 926]

CA Help is for Q&A about the game mechanism - and as such need to be moderated, if the question fit, we will do nothing, if you start arguing on what is doing this, and directing it to a topic/discussion/whatever, we will have to move it to freedom chat or PMs.

 

And sometimes, yes, questions are lost in the discussions, i've seen it, i missed some and i got some PMs later on to ask the question. Trying to keep it userfriendly is one of the best thing we can do.

 

PM : why do we answer them ? Well sometimes the players are scared of the trolls and others taunting (another reason i warn the players doing such things in CA Help chat. It's not a place to troll or berate others people), are afraid that their question might attract griefers, or a simply too shy. It also a matter of checking things directly with the CA with a better/easier discussion. And once again - We are trying to do our best to help everyone.

 While this post has noble intentions, after close to 4 or 5 years of being here, I forget offhand, you have no idea how many so far off the mark answers I've heard over the years by former and current CA's / CM's.

 

 Carry on CM # 1098.

[Arronicus 642]

Eve has global CA channel with 100.000 players, I think Wurm can handle one with 1000ish players

I think it's pretty clear here you don't play Eve.

Eve never has 100,000 players on concurrently, and during peak times, when there even a couple thousand in the channel, it can be incredibly difficult to follow, and even harder to get your question noticed or answered. Eve's help channel is a great example of why Wurm does it better. 

Currently, on a Saturday at 22:29 ingame, when Euros are still awake, and US TZ is getting strong, there's only 900 in channel. INCREDIBLY far from your gross exaggeration of 100,000.

As for CAs, on Desertion at least, I haven't seen them be anything but helpful and informative, not to mention VERY rarely wrong. I've heard reports on some of the other servers that some of the CAs constantly provided incorrect information, but I can't speak to that first hand, so I have to go on my personal experiences alone:

The CAs are helpful, and provide a large benefit to the gaming experience of new and older players alike. Not only do they provide a more trustworthy source of information so players feel less likely to be getting 'opinion' answers, but they also help keep the channel moderated. There are a number of complaints in this thread about the CA Channel being moderated to only contain discussion about questions, and not allowing trolling/jokes, and I really don't understand how people really think that's appropriate. The channel should be maintained as somewhere that people can ask questions without being trolled, berated, or even made fun of.

As for keeping the CA Title itself, after no longer being a CA anymore, I don't really see the issue here. Does anyone really even look at titles? If they're not talking in blue, if they can't see who's online and who isn't, whats the problem?

Keep the CAs, or next thing you know these people are going to be crying for CMs to be removed.