We don't need 'CA' title/position

[Berris 587]

Whenever I see it, CA chat is populated as much by helpful, friendly players who aren't CAs as it is by those with the CA title – the chat is useful but the ‘title’ seems like a decoration for some people and an unneeded extravagance for others.

 

What’s more, as demonstrated in Indy chat twice this week just in the few hours I've been looking, even some experienced players are confused over how much power and remit a CA has.

 

When the CA chat came in I see how it made sense to have dedicated folks; now I really don’t – and even moreso I don’t see the value of a formal title for people being helpful when it also confuses people and indulges those who really aren't.  

 

Wurm is a game of community: you can trust some of the community to log into CA chat without a meaningless and confusing.

 

EDIT:  I'm not bashing ALL CMs, just saying that many good folks will do this 'for free' - and good folks is who we want doing it. 

Edited April 5, 2014 by Berris

[TheMerchant 21]

+ 10

[silakka 2,360]

If you think some use the title just as a decoration, best would be to PM a GM with your concerns.

I find the title very useful as the new players can reach us through PM in forums or ingame and trust our word and advice.

Some CAs do a lot more work than you think, PMs arent shown in public.

[Pwent 113]

You are right, we don't need them, but I can see a good reason for them nevertheless.

We need GMs and CMs, and CA is a good way for the GMs to "feel out" future GMs.

I wouldn't want some random helpful player in CA Help chat become a GM out of the blue.

[Shadz 525]

If you think some use the title just as a decoration, best would be to PM a GM with your concerns.

I find the title very useful as the new players can reach us through PM in forums or ingame and trust our word and advice.

Some CAs do a lot more work than you think, PMs arent shown in public.

You keep the title even after you lose CA status, so uhm... Not everyone with that title is trustworthy.

[Berris 587]

GMs and CMs were recruited just fine before there were CAs.  I suppose that is one 'use' of them but it hardly seems insoluble if we removed them.

 

Sil - there are so many CAs that I'm hardly going to spend me time moaning about each one that doesn't reply to a question or replies with a wrong answer.  That isn't really the point of my suggestion to be honest.  And actually your second point actually strengthens my argument a little bit because the way I see it is that the CA title gives people a perceived authority in the eyes of newer players - and so when they give incorrect or non-existent answers to questions it is all the more damaging.

 

Again, I am not saying ever CA is like this.  Just that it does happen and it does create confusion and really that could all be fixed by not having designated CAs. 

[silakka 2,360]

You keep the title even after you lose CA status, so uhm... Not everyone with that title is trustworthy.

Edited April 5, 2014 by silakka

[Joemog 732]

+1

[Sklo:D 2,210]

You keep the title even after you lose CA status, so uhm... Not everyone with that title is trustworthy.

[rosedragon 2,282]

Won't comment until I know the whole details of why staffs have CA .

[Berris 587]

I note that we have a good illustration of another area of confusion over this (unnecessary) title right here in the thread.

[Kegan 3,926]

Funny thing is i  bought a ca account so i guess i am a ca now too....well they have the title anyway never have turned on the ca channel to see if they are still active, lol

[Shadz 525]

Not correct

[Crack 408]

+1 

[Kegan 3,926]

I just checked and the charater i bought has the CA title but is not in the ca chat help listing so you do keep your title. 

Edited April 5, 2014 by Kegan

[Keldun 335]

the CA title has exatly two purposes: It gives them authority over the CA channel and it gives what they say some credit.

 

While  there are a lot of hepfull people, a lot of them are trying to be helpfull despite having no clue what they are talking about. A CA is expected to check and veryvy their answers.

 

Afaik, CAs even have CM power within the channel. So it gets moderated appropriately and it's somewhat a stepping stone and test to full CM.

 

If there are some CAs that, as you say fail at the task, that is a reason to remove that particular CA, not the title entirely.

 

In that way CA acts as a filter for suitable CMs. Sure, CMs could be selected directly, but would you rather have them mess up with an answer in CA help, or mess up with your support ticket?

 

As for player confusion: thats hardly the problem of the title, but rather players confusing each other. I think there is equal confusion about the CM and GM titles. For example, how many people know that a /support ticket doen't go to the GM, but to the CM?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Keldun

[FreeTineen 430]

I propose we're all made ca's then we'll all understand the role they have to play.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

Not correct

[Berris 587]

Keldun - moderating CA makes sense.  It's the one thing so far I actually agree is important.  That said, with the recent relaxation of chat rules maybe a CM could spare a look at CA chat since it is hardly the most problematic channel (at least on the servers I frequent) 

 

In terms of vetting, I totally agree that watching how people respond in CA chat would be good for that - and that need not change at all just because some of those people no longer have a CA title.

[Kegan 3,926]

Bottom line for me is that not ever CA,CM or GM for that matter is going to know every little thing about the game. There are constant changes and a lot are not even listed so how can anyone keep up with that? I guess they do the best they can and the CA is just a step to the CM that is very much needed to help with the /support calls.

 

Now there seems to be an issue with the titles on "old" member accounts but as for needing the CA spot to weed out the good from the bad i guess we kind of do need that if we want our future CMs to be any good. Maybe the CM should be the only officialialy titled players though..idk

Edited April 5, 2014 by Kegan

[Odynn 2,248]

The community assistant title is a gadget and have nothing to do with the CA job, as said earlier you can have it even after loosing your CA status.

 

EDIT:  I'm not bashing ALL CMs, just saying that many good folks will do this 'for free' - and good folks is who we want doing it. 

 

CA / CM are already doing the job for free. We got no bonuses, no pay, only the hate and griefing from some players and sometimes a "thank you" that keep us working. Anyone who want to join can do it. If you have a concern about a CA/CM/GM abusing his/her position the right thing to do is PMing one of the lead GMs or Enki.

 

The CA job is imho trying to give answers to the players, as well as checking the chat is going on properly (and the answers are good). Sometimes my answers are wrong or somehow incomplete. Game is changing all the time and we can't know everything. Trying to do our best is what we can do.

 

A name in the chat is also a good thing, since newbies will ask a question there if they see someone is sitting in that chat ready to help them (doesn't matter if the CA or another player answer). And you always have the PMs incoming about questions players don't want to ask directly.

[Berris 587]

Complaining about individual CAs is SO not what this thread is about, as I've tried to say several times.  None-the-less thanks to the numerous people who have pointed out our options in that regard.

 

It is about the fact that the title seems to me to be redundant and confusing for a variety of reasons.  Nothing more or less.  No personal bashing of any specific CA.  No belittling of the work they do.  No excessive praise of those who do the same job without the title.  Just a suggestion that maybe the title is redundant and confusing.

 

Apologies if that was unclear at any point.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Berris

[Berris 587]

Odynn - by "for free" I was referring to not having the title/status.  Apologies if that was unclear.

[Seara 686]

There's is one more thing that separates an official CA from players hanging out in the CA channel - they have access to chat channels to talk with other CA's, CM's, GM's and Dev's, in order to assist them. 

 

IMO, that makes them a valuable resource to the player community that would be lost if the position was to be removed.

[Viti 400]

Maybe on some servers there are many helpful people, but on some servers the CAs answer 8/10 questions where there would be silence otherwise. 

 

I dont really get it. These people apply for this and then donate a lot of their playtime to answering questions. A job that really isnt limited to just CA channel answers. WIll they always be right? ofcourse not, who is? 

 

I think many CAs do a real awesome job and that you happen to play on a server with a lot of helpful people in CA; great, but it is not always like this. It also doesnt take away from the time CAs put in. The difference between normal helpful players and CAs is that CAs are there always to help, something that often transfers to PMs and take an awful lot of time, where the helpful players can sometimes think "hmm.. I dont feel like answering today".

 

I see CA as "someone who commits to helping" rather then "help when they feel like it", ANyone can apply for this position, so it is not just for a select few and personally I think this suggestion is a slap in the face to people who commit themself to helping people out. Feel other players can do a better job? why dont they apply themself then? Probably because they dont want to commit their entire online time to having to answer questions constantly and I think this is were the difference lies.

 

No harm done by having CAs on the server I play on.

 

And sorry, I dont wish to sound bad and I really dont mean to sound negative, but removing all CAs over the concern about titles seems very vain and jealous to me.

 

To quote your line:  I'm not bashing ALL CMs, just saying that many good folks will do this 'for free' - and good folks is who we want doing it. 

 

As far as I understand, they DO this for free as well and I dont know how it is on your server, but on my server, all CAs ARE good people, and I never ever felt they did it just for the title, heck, I never even seen a CA with the title on   I think I would have liked and understood this thread a lot better if the suggestion was to remove the titles, rather then remove all CAs over something as vain as the titles they get.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Viti