Remove VAT costs from those it does not apply to.

[Xor 684]

He would lose, because that extra income from non vat countries is just that: extra income.

I think it is also more than just vat increasing the price. Didn't they or even he himself state somewhere he needed to increase the price to keep up with the developing pace as well?

In any case, I voted yes because a discount is a discount

[Heroic 30]

-1 keep same prices for fair play

[Hussars 511]

Since it is included in the pricing, when filing for the government to return those fees, we need a statement from Code Club on how much VAT we're paying.  Want to leave VAT calculated in, fine, just let us know how much of the price is actually VAT.

[rosedragon 2,282]

fyi he did says the 66% price raise is not just VAT.

[Pingpong 1,070]

fyi he did says the 66% price raise is not just VAT.

But that's the justification used for a large price increase.

[Lithien 268]

PayPal tracks where in the world the paying customer is.. This is not a foreign concept Rolf. I for one would be buying more silver if my prem didn't cost the outrageous amount it does.

Return non-VAT-Abiding countries prem costs back to pre-VAT levels.

I would def be more willing to make a priest alt if I could pay around 25$ for two accounts prem like I used to be able to. I believe many others would as well, and it would draw more people in a we approach other distribution platforms.

Re-worded poll.

Edit: Rolf would not have a change in income from this. If the 66% price hike was to account for vat, we are still paying the old prices but with VAT attached. If he removes vat he wouldn't lose a dime

 

Non-VAT-Abiding countries don't have to pay VAT - it is quite simple. Don't use a service that includes it. It is your choice. Harsh I know, but you ARE using a EU service, that he has to pay VAT on.

 

Pay-pal does track where in the world the paying customer is, but pay-pal isn't the only payment-option for this game. One of the many reasons he made the choice to include VAT for everyone is the accounting issues and proof required to exempt some of the customers from playing, is actually not negligible. So instead of paying extra VAT, you would have to pay to offset the cost of the necessary increase in accounting expenditure. So you wouldn't necessarily get cheaper premium if he implemented your suggestion - you would just be paying less than the EU-citizens, who then would have to pay even more, just so you could pay less (They would have to have their prem increased too to pay for the extra accounting + VAT on top of it, unless he of course decides only non-VAT customers should pay for this service, which I doubt is what you want).

 

If you won't adjust for non EU players then please provide me a statement showing VAT so I can claim it on my federal tax form as sales tax paid to another country when I don't live there.

 

Thank you.

 

Now this suggestion on the other hand. I haven't heard a single reason why it wasn't done immediately. It actually makes it look rather suspicious. The only reason I can think of, is that the registering and accounting is actually being done, and VAT isn't actually included for those customers it doesn't apply to. Thus indeed providing extra income from non-EU citizen. I think at the very least you  deserve to be told why the VAT-cost isn't documented sufficiently on every transaction. I am not saying that there aren't reasons, I am just saying that I think those reasons should be explained.

[Radni 1,089]

Lithien, I don't quite understand.. It should not cost a ton of Swedish quatloo's, and I bet you xsolla also tracks where in the world the payment is from. I would put money that every online payment tracks where it was paid from, that's just business.

[Enzius 485]

It seems there's a huge lack of understanding of business and tax law in this thread here.

There are three scenarios:

1) Non EU customers pay less overall because VAT doesn't apply to them.

2) Non EU customers pay VAT fees, it goes to the EU.

3) Non EU customers pay VAT fees, Code AB keeps the extra money

If this is option two, there is no reason for Code AB to avoid addressing this. They can figure it out and move to 3 getting more money or move to 1, which adds value to their product. (This adds money usually in the form of increased subscription).

Option 2 and 3 are unfair to nations who don't have that tax applied. Why should an American suffer from EU's internal sovereign decisions?

Edit: I think option 2 might also be legally concerning, as it equates to the EU levying taxes on other nations, which the EU has agreements forbidding that. I'm not a lawyer though so that's just a thought.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Enzius

[Hussars 511]

It seems there's a huge lack of understanding of business and tax law in this thread here.

There are three scenarios:

1) Non EU customers pay less overall because VAT doesn't apply to them.

2) Non EU customers pay VAT fees, it goes to the EU.

3) Non EU customers pay VAT fees, Code AB keeps the extra money

If this is option two, there is no reason for Code AB to avoid addressing this. They can figure it out and move to 3 getting more money or move to 1, which adds value to their product. (This adds money usually in the form of increased subscription).

Option 2 and 3 are unfair to nations who don't have that tax applied. Why should an American suffer from EU's internal sovereign decisions?

Edit: I think option 2 might also be legally concerning, as it equates to the EU levying taxes on other nations, which the EU has agreements forbidding that. I'm not a lawyer though so that's just a thought.

 

Since the forum archives things so quickly..

 

A post I made the last time this discussion came up:

 

While I cannot speak for Rolf or CodeClub, and I'm not a tax lawyer or specialist, but to clarify, unlike sales tax, VAT is a consumption tax.

 

VAT Over View

 

Further information based on my personal and professional experience (re-read the disclaimer above):

 

If you can get CodeClub to provide a summary of VAT collected on your transactions, you can file for a "VAT refund" IF you are a non-EU/EC citizen AND reside outside of the EU/VAT enrolled countries.  MMO's/Online games are in a special category of "Services" so VAT does apply unfortunately, but as a service provider/seller, it falls to CodeClub to either verify every transaction for VAT collection (which requires them to start processing orders directly or find a vendor to partner with who does) or to collect VAT on every transaction and refund later.  

 

Since each country gets to regulate a portion of their collection rules, it seems that this year the local VAT rules for Sweden changed from an assumption of "Online sales are not within EC" to an assumption that "online sales ARE within EC", so CodeClub has to collect the +25%VAT every time now.

 

To Enzius's question, it's not a legal issue of "taxing other nations" (which is what tariffs basically are when imposed on goods/services) however there are rules in-place to allow citizens normally outside of the system to request those tax based fees to be returned.

 

But to do so, we need to know how much of each transaction is earmarked for VAT (in this case).

[Biervampyr 97]

I dont like to be the bad guy (ok sometimes i like it ;-) ) but if you use swizerland Highways you have to pay a charge of 40 CHF and it doesnt matter where you are from! So if you use a european game wich costs 8€ a Month you just have to pay or leave it :-) i really dont understand why there is so much talking about.

[Becket 843]

The way I see it I have to pay the state sales tax for states I do not live in, so to me it is just a sales tax for a country I do not live in.

Voted no.

[Hussars 511]

I dont like to be the bad guy (ok sometimes i like it ;-) ) but if you use swizerland Highways you have to pay a charge of 40 CHF and it doesnt matter where you are from! So if you use a european game wich costs 8€ a Month you just have to pay or leave it :-) i really dont understand why there is so much talking about.

 

A toll is different from VAT.  You are paying an access fee (in this case the base price), any VAT is added on top of that.  We are all paying the same base price with VAT included (which has been disclosed, but not the amount of VAT being paid).

 

Do you pay VAT on the 40CHF toll?  If so, non VAT enrolled nation residents can take their receipt and file a request through their government for that VAT to be returned during their respective tax "season".

 

::edit removed::

 

For the rest, nvm...  just give us a damned break out of the VAT charged on each RMT so we can file our requests when we file our taxes in the US.  For those who don't care about the fee, it's not an obligation to ask for it to be returned, it's completely optional.  For overhead, there is none other than to disclose what VAT fees are being passed on.

 

When you go to "check out" Just have it state:

• X Price

Y taxes

Z VAT.

That's all that is needed.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Hussars