Suggested changes to enclosure and highway rules

[rosedragon 2,282]

That said, I don't have large enclosures off deed.  I had a tiny one that I have since moved and am trying to find a solution for my fifth generation fighting bears so my templar doesn't start thinking they're tasty.  

Disable the templars from attacking aggro and it will only attack bashing agros (nogumps, trolls, sharks).

[Shidoni 84]

Disable the templars from attacking aggro and it will only attack bashing agros (nogumps, trolls, sharks).

[Chiqa 742]

We all get to make choices in Wurm, including whether we want to keep aggro s on deed or feel safe and secure with out Templar taking care of us, or  get our fight skill up enough to take care of ourselves.   my point is none of us are forced. We chose to do it. 

Edited April 9, 2014 by Chiqa

[Arkonick 557]

The thing is someone has to buy silver to dump into the game so there is always silver to circulate in the game among other players.

 

If rolf stopped selling silver the silver in the game would eventually run dry.

[Hussars 511]

Everything in Wurm can be paid for with in game silver.  No one is forced to pay real money to experience any aspect of the game.

 

(One exception ... getting prem while on Ele, but I'd personally like to see that changed too)

You'll notice, I never mentioned Real Money Transactions (RMT).

 

Lets look at the basic mechanics real fast:

 

• Skill advancement through use

All items in-game (with the exception of "Trader Only"/"premium" items) are player made

Player housing

Non-premium accounts "capped"

All can be achieved right now without use/purchase of premium (the current paywall).  Premium, no matter how you purchase it, does two things:

• Removes Skill Cap

Allows Deed purchase/use

 

If you remove the ability to build housing off of deeded tiles, this moves the mechanic from the general list to the paywall list.  That is how it becomes a paywall item.

 

Silver only really enters the system in significant quantities by way of RMT, which gets recycled in various ways (Traders & Upkeep pool, sell back to tokens, etc...) but only enters the cycle by being purchased from Rolf.

 

If the game allowed for monsters/loot drops and/or vendors buying misc items (with their funds pool not tied to the kingdom coffers) this would be a non-issue, because anyone could use whatever time they wanted to earning coin.  The only way to earn coin in-game is by action involving players with said coin.

 

So those with limited play time don't actually have a legitimate ability to earn coin until much later in their character development, making premium and deed ownership pretty much/effectively unobtainable.  Yes, they can eventually earn coin with higher level skills, but the vast majority of their initial time is spent not playing the game, but working for players with coin.

 

That is a problem.

[Weponsmith 36]

This thread is all sorts of civil and productive.

[Archaed 2,280]

There will most likely be a small scale safe house. Remember, a house writ bypasses even deed rules, a free player may have a house and happily play there. however, with the current system they may have an enclosire to raise animals or farm, this is where it gets tricky.

older players have taken advantage of this mechanic and are currently worried about losing its protection. If a 2x2 homestead was available to new players, with a 1x1 house and 3 farm tiles they would have the freedom to learn and play the game, albiet at a limited scale.

the term paywall is a bit misleading, and I dont think you fully understand its concept. A paywall is denying content or access to content unless a subscription or payment is made. This is simply a muh smaller scale, meaning a f2p can play the game in its entirety without ever putting in a cent, but the scope of their actions will be limited

[Crack 408]

Interesting thought and video Hussars.

Though I can tell you that from what has been discussed so far, money was not the issue.

It is about creating a scalable model which is not heavily dependent upon having huge amount of staff.

 

Lets be honest, couldnt all the issues rolf pointed out be fixed by training the Gm's and working out a set procedure on how to deal with situations?

 

Your going to need a hell of alot of staff  when griefing is no longer against the rules... i mean seriously everyone coverts what their neighbor has and if its legal to take it? why shouldnt we?

 

Eitherway i hope the gm enjoy all the support calls when the raiding begins.. i know ill enjoy reading chat and watching the chaos ensue :S

Edited April 9, 2014 by Crack

[Arkonick 557]

I think there is more than meets the eye http://wurmonline.com/2014/04/09/help-us-test-our-new-mega-server-on-thursday/

[Crack 408]

I think there is more than meets the eye http://wurmonline.com/2014/04/09/help-us-test-our-new-mega-server-on-thursday/

 

Screw ever going there...

 

Id rather not explode my expensive laptop let alone commit suicide from sheer lag.....

 

The current servers lag enough as it is :S

[Arkonick 557]

Question is will it have both pvp and pve on it where you are safe on your homestead but if you walk out you can be attacked? Jooky tried this and is why he has struggled for 3 years trying to keep Xsyon afloat. He finally realized he couldn't and had to open a pve only server cause all he really had was a handful of pvp players left 95% of the pve players left. Remember he started out with over 30 thousand on launch day. I don't think this new server is a pvp or a pve I think it's both.

This model has been tried and meet with horrific failure

[Crack 408]

Question is will it have both pvp and pve on it where you are safe on your homestead but if you walk out you can be attacked? Jooky tried this and is why he has struggled for 3 years trying to keep Xsyon afloat. He finally realized he couldn't and had to open a pve only server cause all he really had was a handful of pvp players left 95% of the pve players left. Remember he started out with over 30 thousand on launch day. I don't think this new server is a pvp or a pve I think it's both.

This model has been tried and meet with horrific failure

 

By the sounds of it thats Rolfs model for the entire pve game.

 

He always did want Wurm to be a PVP game...

[Hussars 511]

 

There will most likely be a small scale safe house. Remember, a house writ bypasses even deed rules, a free player may have a house and happily play there. however, with the current system they may have an enclosire to raise animals or farm, this is where it gets tricky.

older players have taken advantage of this mechanic and are currently worried about losing its protection. If a 2x2 homestead was available to new players, with a 1x1 house and 3 farm tiles they would have the freedom to learn and play the game, albiet at a limited scale.

the term paywall is a bit misleading, and I dont think you fully understand its concept. A paywall is denying content or access to content unless a subscription or payment is made. This is simply a muh smaller scale, meaning a f2p can play the game in its entirety without ever putting in a cent, but the scope of their actions will be limited

 

 

Over a decade paid and actively working in the business-side of the games industry, and you appear to be agreeing with my statement (unless you don't agree features/gameplay elements are "content"?), so I think I am using the term correctly lol

 

As to the system in discussion, that is what you have now.  Moving building requirements from what is currently (anywhere with some limits) to on-deed only is doing exactly that, cutting off access to the mechanic/feature for players not buying in.

 

::self edited::

 

I'll just leave this part...

 

Want a code based mechanic that allows you to remove homesteads and still protect players who want to use enclosures?  Answer these two questions:

• Why can we not pay for deeds/upkeep in gems, or any other items with value to traders?
• Why can we not sell these to the kingdom as a coin creation/"injection" system in addition to the RMT system?

The other thing you could consider if you want to remove non-paid for housing in the open world, instanced apartments for F2P characters.  This gives them a place to store items, setup crafting stations, and build skills without requiring them to be reliant on other players.

 

Considering no other aspect of gameplay is actually reliant upon human interaction and/or RMT, kind of silly the housing upkeep system is.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Hussars

[Stormblade 617]

Can someone point me to what exactly the newbie situation is ( that rolf refers to ) or explain it to me in clear precise non-double talk words?

[Farmerbob 369]

Can someone point me to what exactly the newbie situation is ( that rolf refers to ) or explain it to me in clear precise non-double talk words?

Someone's finally decided to start collecting land close to starter towns, and just enclosing it, and they are successfully keeping the fences and required buildings repaired. Apparently the scope is large enough that it's been noticed officially.

As for the highway thing, I think the GM's are tired of people fighting about roads, and having to take sides.

[Belrindor 663]

Everything in Wurm can be paid for with in game silver.  No one is forced to pay real money to experience any aspect of the game.

 

(One exception ... getting prem while on Ele, but I'd personally like to see that changed too)

 

If everyone did this, you'd not have a job, much less a company.

'Free to play' is nothing but a candy bag with a bear trap at the bottom. I've spent more money in this 'free to play' game than I've ever spent on any game prior, ever, in my life.

 

And I'm nowhere near the skill levels to be able to earn enough silver to pay for premium and the cheapest deed, on a monthly basis. And if I did, how would that be good for Wurm?

 

Saying it's 'possible', is not the same as feasible.

 

CAN it be done? Yes. You CAN experience Wurm using only in game silver.

 

Do most do it, and would it be good for Wurm if they did? No, that's utterly ridiculous. You may be able to create digital 'silver' out of thin air. but you can't pay your real life bills with it. You need people putting Euros and dollars into the trough for that to work. And this is made possible by those of us who PAY you every month for our deeds and for our premium subscriptions.

 

The people who do it 100% in game may be contributing a certain aspect to the Wurm economy and it does have it's place. But if the majority did that, you wouldn't have a sustainable system in short order.

[Belrindor 663]

Someone's finally decided to start collecting land close to starter towns, and just enclosing it, and they are successfully keeping the fences and required buildings repaired. Apparently the scope is large enough that it's been noticed officially.

As for the highway thing, I think the GM's are tired of people fighting about roads, and having to take sides.

 

So wait...

 

You're telling me all the rest of us have to suffer through this inane BS because of ONE tweaker hoarding land?

 

And you cannot address this one individual and this one problem directly? Are you freaking kidding me?!?

[Badgirl 115]

I had a tiny one that I have since moved and am trying to find a solution for my fifth generation fighting bears so my templar doesn't start thinking they're tasty.  

 

As someone who keeps wolves, bears, and cats as pets I would like to see them implement a way set reputation for each mob type.  -100 the templar attacks. Heck if you set it to +100 make the templar feed them meat filet from a barrel!

 

I got rid of my templar to not take any chances with my pets I have had for ages. 

 

It's pretty obvious that Rolf is preparing for a huge influx of new players with the removal of the enclosure rule. Both to avoid the CS nightmare of 10,000 newbies building enclosures everywhere and for invalidating the huge enclosures that are blocking land that the new players could use. 

[Mordraug 2,542]

Someone's finally decided to start collecting land close to starter towns, and just enclosing it, and they are successfully keeping the fences and required buildings repaired. Apparently the scope is large enough that it's been noticed officially.

 

 

Well, that's got nothing to do with my perimeters sooooooooo ........ I guess up to Rolf whether he gets to keep receiving a lot of peoples' money or not.

[Blacklotus 276]

So wait...

 

You're telling me all the rest of us have to suffer through this inane BS because of ONE tweaker hoarding land?

 

Basically one "tweaker" has invoked enough irritation from the GM's that Rolf is finally taking action. At the end of the day, It's not going to successfully stop people from hoarding land. It is however, going to cause the GM's a lot more headaches then they have now before this is all said and done with.

Easiest way to make enclosures work, Give a house an aura around it like deeds have with perimeter. a 1x1 house might have a space of 1 tile all round it where it would count as an enclosure, a mansion that's 15 tiles would have maybe a 5 tile area surrounding it where it'd count for enclosures. Why does it have to be complicated...

 

Back when I joined Wurm there were unspoken rules players seemed to live by, you want to build somewhere, you ask the neighbors if they mind, You go in the middle of the woods and nobody was around, you build what you like. It all falls down to people having a measure of respect for one another. That's long since gone but maybe just maybe we need to regain that way of thinking once again.

[Arkonick 557]

All I see is an elaborate scheme to throw in a new massive map to get tons to flock to it then because of low activity on older servers they can be shut down permanently and this new server will be a mix of pvp and pve with the noobs having something like a homestead writ that only protects them as long as they stay in the writ boarders and if they deed only in the deed boarders and any thing out side this is open full pvp.

Why would anyone build a Server this massive? The old servers still have tons of land and I mean tons. Kill enclosures and you have even more. So why the massive server? I can only assume I'm right cause logically it all makes since.

Force the player base to one server shut the rest down cause of inactivity or because you simply can't run this massive server and others. Use a excuse like we can't maintain this new massive server and the old low populated servers any more so sorry but we will be closing such and such server come x x days.

This is what I see cause I don't see that huge of a flux with said features coming that would need more land than what all servers we have now which still have massive empty land sections left.

[Belrindor 663]

Right. So instead of having a chat with this one individual causing the problem, the rest of the class is being punished along with them. That didn't work in kindergarten, and it doesn't work here in real life, either.

 

If one individual is causing such an uproar, the solution isn't to change the rules or punish the class, it's to resolve the issue with that one causing the problem. Ask nicely for them to stop causing problems. If they refuse, ban them and free up the land. Problem solved. And it would have saved a going on 30 page thread.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Right. So instead of having a chat with this one individual causing the problem, the rest of the class is being punished along with them. That didn't work in kindergarten, and it doesn't work here in real life, either.

 

If one individual is causing such an uproar, the solution isn't to change the rules or punish the class, it's to resolve the issue with that one causing the problem. Ask nicely for them to stop causing problems. If they refuse, ban them and free up the land. Problem solved. And it would have saved a going on 30 page thread.

 

Hear hear!  

[Mykael 15]

This is the dumbest ###### I swear lol.. I've logged in once since this started lol. We're all set to call it quits like all the other people.

 

 

Perimeter's GONE, completely worthless..

Legal Enclosures = Illegal Enclosures.. which is fair game for anyone... ANYTHING off-deed including your perimeter.

Say goodbye to Highways.. We all know what will happen with this crap..

 

oh well, time to go back to my other games lol.. If I were you guys, I wouldn't pay to be griefed in any game lol. But it's your money, do what you want.

 

I buy premium time with? real money

I buy silver with? real money

 

See my $$? Not today..

[Flycat 9]

It has been pointed out by a few people that if off-deed enclosures are to be done away with, they will have no secure place to keep their aggressive pets safe from their templars. 

 

I read one suggested fix to assign reputation to different mob types.  I would add the suggestion of using the branding mechanic to override templar/guard aggression.  My suggestion would still require a safety measure for new borns.  Perhaps if both parents were branded, the newborn aggressive automaticly inherits the brand.  Alternantively guards could be disabled from attacking mobs (that are deemed desirable) at their youngest stage to allow time for the deed owners to brand them.

 

I know this is not a perfect solution but it's probably codeable and some compromise is in order to solve this.  I encourage others to expand on these ideas or respectfully point out the flaws.

 

Off Topic:

Emotions run high when our beloved game might be in jeopardy but have some consideration for the poor sap/s who has to wade through this sea of constructive suggestions and hateful threats.  I see many posts with positive ideas and many more that are just a few people argueing the same (often off topic) points over and over.  Consider making a new thread to have your arguements and then bring the end result here.  Keep it constructive.  Keep it on topic.