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Rolf

Suggested changes to enclosure and highway rules

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why change the rules any? enclosure,perimeter,or highway? except for indy i doubt any server is using 20% of its landmass,so thats just jealous whiners crying. theres a reason these rules were instituted in the first place. if its to lessen the gm workload-then why are they gm's? this is their job,these issues. either quit being a gm for the status or do the job. maybe you should pay them a lil,or atleast give them free premium. but resolving ingame issues is their sole function. if the enclosure rules bork your flying and jumping ideas i dont see deed owners who dont want people in their lands being happy regardless of what you do to offdeed land. when you changed perimeters a while back did this lessen the gm work load? it only seemed to be used for griefing,placing peris over some noobs shack denying him the home. if its an issue of people not doing what you want and intended nothing is gonna change that the slightest. and if the issue is the uneven way some gm's handle situations,i wasnt aware they didnt all get the same abilities to function. you have atleast 3 that are true professional,interchangeable. sounds like a training issue. if its a problem with partiality.  well no gm should ever service the server he/she plays on. 


Edited by waarokku
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Enclosure rules go away and/or are changed to something that causes massive uproar.


 


A few weeks/patches later... flying and jumping. Wait and see. ;)


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We should have the option with this coming in to be able to deed in more separate directions to protect highway/enclosures.  Alot of people have gotten used to having huge off deed farms to keep there animal ratio from getting nutty.


 


 


Example  A deed has about a 15x15 space thats pure farmland separated into fields and animal housing that is fully off deed south of the main deed. The only current way of protecting this when the change hits is basically to deed all the way north and south which will cost a pretty penny.  But if it was just going South then the cost would be cut in half because the unneeded north wouldn't be added into the deed/tile cost.


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Enclosure rules go away and/or are changed to something that causes massive uproar.

 

A few weeks/patches later... flying and jumping. Wait and see. ;)

 

Tbh i know both have been mentioned... but flying and jumping would kill wurm

 

Jumping is completely useless.. i mean seriously where and when go we need to jump?

 

Flying? just makes everything else useless.. makes wurm a much safer place (can avoid beasties) makes terrain unimportant (tunnels, roads, bridges would be pointless) 

 

I mean seriously if i could fly about 80% of wurms features would become pointless, i mean seriously i could just fly up my house or i could fly over a mountain :S

 

So dont get your hopes up.. then again if Rolfs willing to remove  Enclosures i can easily see Rolf making even more terrible decisions for Wurm :S

 

 

 

Tbh i dont think Rolf predicted this much resistance, its as if he expected us to cheer in his removal of highways and enclosures or he'd surely been far more careful with his wording :S

 

The fact there's been no offical responses to try and remove peoples fears is disgusting it clearly shows Rolf doesnt know what to say and that this post is simply a formality he'd made up his mind, as ive said before this is about money.

 

He's trying to force us to stop using enclosures and plant more deeds/expand our existing ones.

He's bringing out a new server and been bigging it up to make people want to buy even more deeds to top up his coffers.

 

Prehaps this is to pay for his new employee....

Prehaps he needs new shoes.....

 

None of us will know.

And the only thing we can do now is protest... to those who are telling everyone to chill out.. Why the hell should we? we play this game too and our opinion is worth as much as yours..

 

 

Thats all for now :)

Edited by Crack
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I mean seriously if i could fly about 80% of wurms features would become pointless, i mean seriously i could just fly up my house or i could fly over a mountain :S

 

And that right there is why the enclosure rule is being removed.

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I am fairly new (only a month playing now) and I can see the issues with larger deeds, however; i wanted to expand my deed but i couldn't since the deed on my North piled coin into upkeep and walked away from the game, same on my western side - although the west side are in decay now.  There is always room for improvements and as such there is room to fix the deed sizes to limit huge deed sizes, while still keeping rules in check to prevent griefing of livestock. If you want to make room for new players; deeds that are banned immediately disband it without waiting for decay. Inactivity on a deed for more than 30 days have deed decay regardless of how much time is on token. After 30 days the coin on token gets re-imbursed to the player and frees up land mass.


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I am fairly new (only a month playing now) and I can see the issues with larger deeds, however; i wanted to expand my deed but i couldn't since the deed on my North piled coin into upkeep and walked away from the game, same on my western side - although the west side are in decay now.  There is always room for improvements and as such there is room to fix the deed sizes to limit huge deed sizes, while still keeping rules in check to prevent griefing of livestock. If you want to make room for new players; deeds that are banned immediately disband it without waiting for decay. Inactivity on a deed for more than 30 days have deed decay regardless of how much time is on token. After 30 days the coin on token gets re-imbursed to the player and frees up land mass.

 

This will probably be the worst move to do, because if thats become implemented they will be scaming money form paying costumer, plain and simple.

 

If some one want to make a 100x100 deed and drop 500 gold coins into the upkeep, so be it, is not wasted land, since he pays hard coin for it, and people living in enclosure without paying a single iron should be more than happy to have someone else paying for the game.

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I am fairly new (only a month playing now) and I can see the issues with larger deeds, however; i wanted to expand my deed but i couldn't since the deed on my North piled coin into upkeep and walked away from the game, same on my western side - although the west side are in decay now.  There is always room for improvements and as such there is room to fix the deed sizes to limit huge deed sizes, while still keeping rules in check to prevent griefing of livestock. If you want to make room for new players; deeds that are banned immediately disband it without waiting for decay. Inactivity on a deed for more than 30 days have deed decay regardless of how much time is on token. After 30 days the coin on token gets re-imbursed to the player and frees up land mass.

The issue is not deeds.  Regardless of size.  Deeds prevent any bashing or griefing already in their mechanics.  This is strictly speaking of off deed enclosures.

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I am fairly new (only a month playing now) and I can see the issues with larger deeds, however; i wanted to expand my deed but i couldn't since the deed on my North piled coin into upkeep and walked away from the game, same on my western side - although the west side are in decay now.  There is always room for improvements and as such there is room to fix the deed sizes to limit huge deed sizes, while still keeping rules in check to prevent griefing of livestock. If you want to make room for new players; deeds that are banned immediately disband it without waiting for decay. Inactivity on a deed for more than 30 days have deed decay regardless of how much time is on token. After 30 days the coin on token gets re-imbursed to the player and frees up land mass.

 

What you suggest would lose Wurm a huge amount of it's long term players. Many of us are happy to drop a year or more in our token ensuring that our deed will be ok in the event life happens and we must be away for some reason, or just so we don't have to take care of it every 30 days.  

 

As stated by someone else , if someone is paying for a deed, they are supporting the game, if they chose not to do anything with the land they have deeded that is  ok, as it is Their  deed not yours mine or anyone else s. 

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I am fairly new (only a month playing now) and I can see the issues with larger deeds, however; i wanted to expand my deed but i couldn't since the deed on my North piled coin into upkeep and walked away from the game, same on my western side - although the west side are in decay now.  There is always room for improvements and as such there is room to fix the deed sizes to limit huge deed sizes, while still keeping rules in check to prevent griefing of livestock. If you want to make room for new players; deeds that are banned immediately disband it without waiting for decay. Inactivity on a deed for more than 30 days have deed decay regardless of how much time is on token. After 30 days the coin on token gets re-imbursed to the player and frees up land mass.

 

Just no. People take breaks if they payed for the land its there until the time runs out.

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for highways what about a special road tile that would need to be approved by a gm. So Player 1 makes a highway from point A to point B  contacts Gm and Gm comes and exams the road. if it is not causing harm then  they do some magic gm trick and the road turns to the special block. If the road is to be removed then a gm is contacted again and they change it back to the original block type.


 


Newbie Deeds I do like the idea of the  enclosure deed.


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maybe should approach this problem differently, I mean afterall, WHAT exactly are we trying to protect for newbies?


 


-unfinished items in houses <---i think that should be changed for the sake of all players 


-farms that needs to be outside


-animals


 


everything loose can be secured in a house, where they have full ownership and protection of all what they created and do, the only thing that comes to my mind is that awful mechanic of placing a Perimeter over someones house. Why the heck should someone be privileged to expand their Perimeter over a house of someones writ they don't own, when Perimeter is for buffer/reserving land only? People also can't build houses on someones else's Perimeter and they could have done the reserving way before someone build a house there!


 


possible solution:


unfinished items, can't be taken out of a house by a person who is not on the writ or owner of the writ, the same way normal items can't be taken.


farms could have a similar mechanic to dropped items on the ground, it's not allowing harvest for 2 days by any other person, then the last who tended them.(only offdeed)


animals could maybe get a temporary branding that needs to be renewed every week (or longer timespan) or maybe some form of "ownership" painting with blue dye(since it's easiest to get).


Perimeters can NOT be expanded over Houses, since they are an already implemented protection for newbies and maybe the only one left in the future. 


 


 


 


then the other older Players Problem that most People try to circumvent by placing enclosures so far:


 


-expanding deeds is only possible to 2 sides!


 


possible solution:


since Rolf already stated that deed tokens have to be in the middle of the deed, maybe there should be a mechanic placed that would allow players to move their deed tile per tile. Maybe make it so that you can open the deed change papers (and you have to be close to the deed token) and then simply drag it, tile per tile how far you want it or just tell the deed to move x amount of tiles to one direction. It always bugged me that I had to pay for a completely new deed, when i just wanted to move the deed in its  whole to expand a few tiles....and had to risk someone put a deed on my lands, in that short time frame I'm waiting for it to disband.....


 


Highway problematic:


 


-people who build Highways everywhere without considering neighbours wishes


-Highways that are beeing made impossible to use


-random changes by players without building a sideroute for players to pass 


-actually it is only higher skilled premium players who can make those griefing attempts...since you need 21 body strength to destroy pavement...


 


possible solution:


keeping the Heritage sides, is something I think should never be taken out of the game, since they keep atleast protection for the big projects after having them finished.


I'm not sure how to handle this tbh, for now I would like to stay with the current rules, just so that GMs CAN still enforce them. Because Highways SHOULD be possible to change afterall and it should'nt be made TOO difficult to build them also, even though I could imagine maybe making some form of "concrete" to strengthen a road, to make it a Highway. That way it would be easy to make the road itself, but in order to protect it, you would need the help of other players because of the huge amount of work to make it protected.


 


I'm aware that all of those things CAN be griefed in one or another way, but if we make it an effort for griefers to grief, then they are probably less likely to do so and that means less work for GMs


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"Perimeters can NOT be expanded over Houses"


 


+1


 


"farms could have a similar mechanic to dropped items on the ground, it's not allowing harvest for 2 days by any other person, then the last who tended them.(only offdeed)"


 


+1

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If perimeters cannot be expanded over houses then houses (which are free to build) will become even more of The Perfect Griefing Tool. When you expand your deed onto the tiles in your buffer zone i.e. over the tiles where you previously had a perimeter there is the mandatory 5 perimeter tiles to take into account. In other words: You'd reserve the space for expanding upon but people could plant houses all around your deed which would effectively box you in in a way that prevented you from ever using the 5 last tiles which you've paid for in order to be able to expand upon, thus defeating the entire purpose of the perimeter. For those that use perimeters as a buffer zone as they're intended that'd be a total slap in the face.

The mandatory 5 tiles won't be done away with anytime zoon either since they're there to ensure that noone makes 4 super small and cheap deeds that lie edge to edge in order to fence in a huge free area in between them, ie. exactly what the whole issue with the legal enclosure is: Claiming ownership over vast amounts of land for which you have not paid.

On a more related note:

Why has this thread turned into a Perimeter brawl? Perimeters are not what this thread is meant to discuss.

The legal enclosure rule is meant to be in place to protect newbies who just need a safe spot to start out, before getting into the whole deed business. Fighting about this or that over perimeters isn't going to help because the legal enclosures are meant to protect newbies who don't have a deed.

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@Aeris


 


I'm not sure if people do actually know, what Perimeter means, since the 5 tiles bufferzone are NOT meant, to be for further expanding, but instead to prevent people from closing up areas with deeds completely AND it IS important for this thread since the Perimeters were ONE of the things how players could grief newbies to take over their "enclosures" by just expanding over their houses/enclosures and waiting for everything to decay. Even though , those 5 tiles of free Perimeter are NOT paid for, so not owned land of the player who owns the deed...


 


and besides that, houses ARE one way for free players to have a protection as ingame mechanic that is already implemented, only downside is, that this protection is kinda useless against deed owners.


 


-----------


 


I also wonder if a solution should be as permanent as a non premium character or if we maybe should work towards something that is time restricted, like when having an active newbie, you can have some form of reduced settlement paper, which can teach you a few basics about having your own deed later, but at the same time has less rights than a normal deed paper....the maximum area could be like the minimum size for normal deeds and it could need some form of maintenance or you are only able to have 1 month upkeep max (without the high decay)


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I rather like the idea of players being able to 'claim' a small predetermined amount of land as previously suggested by other players. It would offer no decay-reduction bonuses nor guards / etc. Just a small claim to land but maybe having a buffer zone in between themselves and/or perimeters of deeds to prevent 'walling' in areas -- and perhaps eventually upgraded into a full-fledged deed by paying the usual price, granted there is the appropriate space for one. Enclosures not placed on claimed/deeded land would be considered fair game for destruction.


 


One of the big issues, at least in MY experience, is that trolls can get a little slap-happy with fences... and that alone seemed to insult the Enclosure rule. WHO BASHED MY FENCE? -- Uhh, that troll did while you were logged out. -- BS! 


I've no experience in GM dealings with bashing/griefers but from my personal perspective i can see lots of wasted support calls from players wanting a greifer punished when it was just a mob all along. 


 


Personally I build all of my stuff within the deeded tiles themselves just because I don't like having to deal with decay at all... that's one of the absolute biggest perks to me of buying a deed though I can understand why many others do what they do, it's their choice. 


 


And lastly, I apologize for this post being unorganized, I might have to clean it up a bit and perhaps expand upon it when I have more time. 


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Most people posting don't even get Rolf's post please read people. Rolf said he had something planned for noob's so you don't have to make suggestions for that. He clearly stated he was going to do away with enclosures. So everyone who is arguing are people who have been allowed all the way up to this change coming to be allowed to make enclosures with no limit. These people have been working this land and building from months to years and that's a lot of time spent.


 


The argument is removing this rule will allow anyone to come in to there Enclosure which will now be illegal to have and will no long be covered under any don't bash rule which allows for everyone who has one to be griefed by a PVP mechanic on a non pvp server. Which is why there is a uproar. PVE players don't like pvp mechanics and it can damage a fan base in sever ways that are not to the comprehension of a pvp player.  If Rolf was to come in and say deeds are to big all deeds will now have a limit and any existing deeds will be downsized to a max of 21x21 you deed owners would be in here threatening to quit if he touched what he allowed you to have.


 


The thing is he owns the game and it doesn't matter if you paid for land or was given the right to make legal enclosures he can at any time change any thing he wants. We all agreed to the TOS which states this. So the big question is how can he go about changing this with out sever damage to his income from a great big portion of his fan base. I stated earlier in a post the best way out of this dilemma that can do away with Enclosures and allow for this new noob system to be done with least amount of pain and still allow those who have there Enclosures to have a chance to keep it seeing it was his own negligence for not adding a cap in the rules in the beginning.


 


The option I gave him would be the lessor of 2 evils and would prevent a grief fest on all PVE server's.


 


So stop trying to come up with ideas for noob's he has this already planned.


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@arkonik, you are aware that he actually asked for suggestions?:P


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He asked for suggestion of a better way than what he had planned.


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The suggestion is to remove these rules, and replace the newbie situation with another solution. There are quite a lot of good ideas floating around. You should consider making preparations for them being removed within a month, unless we see a showstopper for these.

 

 

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Not quite.

 

I want to cap the lifetime of the buildings that offer the fences their protection. Once the building and its aura are gone any fences left behind will become instantly bash-able. Perhaps not a complete cap but maybe just a increased decay rate so that you cant construct a building and forget it about it for 6 months, a year or even longer. Though i guess fence decay rates should probably be subject to roughly the same rate as off deed buildings. 

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Most people posting don't even get Rolf's post please read people. Rolf said he had something planned for noob's so you don't have to make suggestions for that. He clearly stated he was going to do away with enclosures. So everyone who is arguing are people who have been allowed all the way up to this change coming to be allowed to make enclosures with no limit. These people have been working this land and building from months to years and that's a lot of time spent.

 

The argument is removing this rule will allow anyone to come in to there Enclosure which will now be illegal to have and will no long be covered under any don't bash rule which allows for everyone who has one to be griefed by a PVP mechanic on a non pvp server. Which is why there is a uproar. PVE players don't like pvp mechanics and it can damage a fan base in sever ways that are not to the comprehension of a pvp player.  If Rolf was to come in and say deeds are to big all deeds will now have a limit and any existing deeds will be downsized to a max of 21x21 you deed owners would be in here threatening to quit if he touched what he allowed you to have.

 

The thing is he owns the game and it doesn't matter if you paid for land or was given the right to make legal enclosures he can at any time change any thing he wants. We all agreed to the TOS which states this. So the big question is how can he go about changing this with out sever damage to his income from a great big portion of his fan base. I stated earlier in a post the best way out of this dilemma that can do away with Enclosures and allow for this new noob system to be done with least amount of pain and still allow those who have there Enclosures to have a chance to keep it seeing it was his own negligence for not adding a cap in the rules in the beginning.

 

The option I gave him would be the lessor of 2 evils and would prevent a grief fest on all PVE server's.

 

So stop trying to come up with ideas for noob's he has this already planned.

 

 

Rolf once said You'd be able to build stupidly tall houses 42 stories tall or was it 60?

We soon stopped that.

 

Eitherway noone has suggested an easy fix... the lesser of evils would be to keep things the way they are but if that doesnt happen i like many others may be walking away... tbh i think thats what the new servers for... to cover up for the hit hes about to take

Edited by Crack
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only the owner could do anything on the central (11x11 or whatever) land: build, bash, farm, dig, etc. basically the normal deed settings all force locked to "mayor only"

anyone could pick up items on the ground however. it prevents bashing and lockpicking, but you still have to take the effort to put your things away.

It would have no gaurds.

It would have no decay prevention, no autolighting lamps, and no respawning. 

It would only be able to have one citizen, the owner.

it would be able to join alliances, but not found them, and allies would have zero permissions on it.

 

The owner would not be able to belong to any other deed or homestead. (tho you could remove the homestead and place it elsewhere with a suitable cooldown (maybe 7 days) if you wanted

 

If the owner did not log in and right click on the token to use a reset option once every 14 days(longer, i think thats long enough myself..., shorter? maybe, not too short tho, people have real lives), it would disband and the claim to the land would be gone, any fences would remain, but no longer be protected by game mechanics or rules, and of course writs would still act like any other writ.

 

these could not be traded back and forth.

 

 

1. No mobs can spawn inside the area.

2. Your ideas about refresh duration are way too short. I'd put them upwards of at least a month. This has few consequences and increase retention.

3. Can you have an enclosure and a deed? How do players in deed setup temporary work areas away from their deed? Half-deeds likely won't fill this need.

 

 

@ thread

I still prefer a setup where we plan the enclosure area like planning a house. LImited tile count and the final product is acts almost exactly like a house (sleep inside is one exception) but its a small area. The main mechanics needed are: prevent fence bashing, lockpicking, and prevent mobs/lairs from spawning inside the enclosure, (future hypotheticals) No fence jump or fly into. 

 

The level of control is perfect here. Like a  house, you can make a free area anywhere perimeter doesn't exists. Paying customers can put perimeter over free areas and slowly take over the land.

 

_________________

 

Roads.  The number one change I'd like to see is if a dispute comes up between a road and deed (village tiles or perimeter tiles) then the deed gets the benefit of the doubt.

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Legal enclosures are going, and he clearly states be prepared, the request for suggestions is mostly fixing the highway, and if any really good enclosure ideas come out

 

 

Yes, several deed owners are preparing mentally to quit Wurm.  

 

Something this big should be up for a vote.  As in PvE players decide so "name your server" kind of vote.

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