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Rolf

Suggested changes to enclosure and highway rules

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You are among them. They put legal enclosures in their perimeter that have been just fine and dandy for how many years? They offered no more protection than any other "legal enclosure" on the map for how many years? Most of these people are not out landgrabbing massive patches of land in fences. These people are using 5 tiles no one else can build in. Are you not reading that? They are not asking for a replacement protection rule for 100x100 tiles of undeeded prime land. They are asking for a protection plan for 5 tiles of trees or champion pets in a tiny area around their deed that no one else can deed over, expand into, or build a structure in.

 

I find this a totally legal and moral thing to do - I even considered myself doing it. And I do think that a "no bashing only" setting for perimeter tiles might be a good idea. The problem I see though is that people will just place a 11x11 deed (5x5 in settings) with huge perimeters to keep their huge enclosures at a free very low cost.

 

What solutions I think might work to prevent this:

- "no bash" rule would only function for the 5 tiles closest of the deed; so if you have a 25 perimeter, only first 5 will be protected, and next 20 will be "free for all"

- "no bash" rule would only function as long as you only have free perimeter; the moment when you add additional perimeter the rule is voided

Problem with both these solutions is that it will create even more confusion.

 

Another solution (which is actually my favorite) would be to prevent bashing (and maybe even terraforming/mining) on perimeter, but to have the number of tiles per perimeter limited by the deed size. So you could never have a higher perimeter than the deed itself - like for a 11x11 deed (5x5 in settings) biggest perimeter you could have would also be 5 (so only the free one); for a 21x21 deed (10x10 in settings) biggest perimeter you could have would be 10 (the five free tiles plus five additional). The mechanic is already in place for number of templars or number of citizens, so would not be something hard to code.

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back then this rule protected me when someone broke into my enclosure and took everything I had in a FSB.

 

Not any more.

And no, you still miss the point. Yes it says that in the box. But the ground says this.

[14:00:22] This is within the village of Ad Aspera.

[14:01:12] This is within the perimeter of Ad Aspera.

[14:01:30] You see a part of the lands of Wurm.

 

They take these things that are certain and combine them with this rule:

 

Breaking fences.

It is illegal to break any fence that does not belong to you AND is also a part of an enclosure.

Enclosure is defined as a completely enclosed secured area, composed of fences (excluding hedges and woven fences), gates or walls, and attached to or surrounding a house with at least completed bottom level walls. The bottom level walls of any such house/s being part of the enclosure must be visible from all parts of the fencing encompassing the enclosure area. Note that a deed overrides the enclosure rule. *Posted 02 March 2008 - 12:21 AM

 

However, it does say this:

[14:13:53] You are planning a structure outside any known village. This is very risky, and the structure may very well be pillaged and looted by other players.

But this is not true on Freedom and we all know it. You cannot loot or pillage a maintained writ nor destroy it unless you have express permission to do so.

What pops up on that screen and what is implied in the visible information associated with a tile AND the longstanding explicit rule regarding enclosures are completely at odds and the popup you argue for is implicitly overridden by other rules.Their name is in the dirt, their writ is untouchable, and that writ is attached to a series of fences that is implicitly protected by a rule and has been for 6 years or more. They did not go out landgrabbing. They stayed in the tiles with their names on it. They abode by rules that override what pops up about perimeter when planting a deed because OTHER rules make it protected and no one else can deed over or expand into that land.

You are arguing from a vacuum in which no other rules exist. You are ignoring overlapping rules and mechanics that they have read to be IMPLICITLY protecting their perimeter. You do not see him arguing to save 2,000 tiles of out in the wild enclosures. He is arguing to save tiles no one else can deed on land that is not on the open market nor for sale.

And finally, the "grey zone" only exists because... I don't even know why it exists to be honest. There should be no grey zone. "It is illegal to break any fence that does not belong to you AND is also a part of an enclosure." Maybe I am color blind but see black and white here.

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I don't know why you guys are all worried about your walled in perimeters. Walling in land you pay for (at whatever payment level) isn't the problem. The problem is the people who wall in 100x100 tiles and don't pay for 1 single tile inside.

The majority of the player base isn't interested in going to your village's perimeters and bashing down the walls. There may be a few twisted individuals who might do it for the lulz, but most people will respect that it's part of a village.

Now, if you have a large, unpaid, fenced in area to prevent people from deeding near you, or if you are breeding hundreds of dociles in said pen.... it's going to get bashed into. Your land hogging is not appreciated, and/or your overabundance of docile critters is preventing the area from spawning things to hunt. Your greed is hurting other players, and it will be corrected.

 

The majority won't. It's that one or two idiots who do - not will, do as they already do it and this will make it worse.

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I find this a totally legal and moral thing to do - I even considered myself doing it. And I do think that a "no bashing only" setting for perimeter tiles might be a good idea. The problem I see though is that people will just place a 11x11 deed (5x5 in settings) with huge perimeters to keep their huge enclosures at a free very low cost.

 

What solutions I think might work to prevent this:

- "no bash" rule would only function for the 5 tiles closest of the deed; so if you have a 25 perimeter, only first 5 will be protected, and next 20 will be "free for all"

- "no bash" rule would only function as long as you only have free perimeter; the moment when you add additional perimeter the rule is voided

Problem with both these solutions is that it will create even more confusion.

 

You're backwards, bud.

Perimeter tiles aren't that cheap. Especially when you get into larger amounts. If anything, it should be the 20 tiles that are allowed to be walled, the 5 free that are added by the game should be the "free-for-all".... if your suggestion were to be taken into consideration.

If someone owns 40 tiles of perimeter, they are paying for 35 of those tiles and continue to pay for them. 

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The majority won't. It's that one or two idiots who do - not will, do as they already do it and this will make it worse.

Those "one or two" already do it. And they do it when you're logged off for a bit and there's no way for you to track them. So, if the rules change, those people just continue doing what they've always done.

What's the difference?

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I don't know why you guys are all worried about your walled in perimeters. Walling in land you pay for (at whatever payment level) isn't the problem. The problem is the people who wall in 100x100 tiles and don't pay for 1 single tile inside.

The majority of the player base isn't interested in going to your village's perimeters and bashing down the walls. There may be a few twisted individuals who might do it for the lulz, but most people will respect that it's part of a village.

Now, if you have a large, unpaid, fenced in area to prevent people from deeding near you, or if you are breeding hundreds of dociles in said pen.... it's going to get bashed into. Your land hogging is not appreciated, and/or your overabundance of docile critters is preventing the area from spawning things to hunt. Your greed is hurting other players, and it will be corrected.

 

Sorry to say, Although i have a bit of a chunk of land that i use and some not use, I'm not entirely a land grubber, Nothing more worse than people who spend more money than they need to to buy 10 traders, over 6 deeds, and so on as many did on Pristine, DESPITE already having a few deeds else where. Pristine was for NEW PLAYERS, as in people WITHOUT DEEDS.  So please, when talking about people "landgrubbing" and so on, please respect that not ALL people in wurm are capable of paying 100silver, sorry 125$ outside the Euro echange, in order to afford Proper ammount of premium, Proper deed papers, tools, time to dig a proper space, AND ON TOP OF IT ALL- the exact, ammount of space the land in question requires to be extorted through deeding.

 

My case I am working, Undeeded, on making my land how i wish it to be, as My effort (and much more that of a Friend whose helped me SO much) isn't going to be thrown away because someone can bash into my fences and deed over my stuff. No I will not allow that regardless of rules, protections and what not. If someday i manage to FINALLY get enough premium time in and able to make ingame money I will deed. But as such I will play my own way, Use my land AS ANY DEED OWNER WOULD, even without a deed, And deed when I SEE FIT. Not when some lazy Admin decides to tell me to because Free players are making Possible income an obstacle. 

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Those "one or two" already do it. And they do it when you're logged off for a bit and there's no way for you to track them. So, if the rules change, those people just continue doing what they've always done.

What's the difference?

 

The difference is when they slip up, and they always do, nothing will be done about it. You want to catch a basher, it's simple. Log in an alt, put it off deed, but close to where the bashing is being done over and over. You will catch them. They are never overly concerned about a noob in local standing inside a little hut and fence hiding from spiders.

Edited by Audrel

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I don't think anyone understands the weight of the issue. Let me explain one final time and show you what happens.


 


Introduce a grief in a PVE world that allows any player to grief another player by destroying something they made, found , or claimed in any shape or form and you have just introduced a PVP mechanic in a non PVP server. What does this cause?


 


Take a hard look at Xsyon a sandbox mmo that had no pve and any player who tried it was griefed being killed ransacked of goods they spent time to gather. This game was tanking hard and for 3 years it had very low funds so low the guy who was making it had to let all his staff go and do every thing his self. Now he finally made a pve server with no grief mechanics.


 


The problem with this is now it has such a sour taste in all the 30 some thousand who payed for it and played it Adding this now might not even pull it out of the water cause he still don't have the funds to hire new developers to help make things go faster. This game now has a very low chance to pull out of it's mistake. Not many people are going to come back and hand him money and wait for it to be developed and until he gets more developers.


 


This can happen to Wurm Online if you introduce a mechanic that makes people quit. Once a player quits others will come in and ransack there place and if the system was to be returned to the way it was and people are emailed and return to only find out there hard work was ransacked not very many would even give it a shot.


 


By this little break they would have they will more than likely be tossing money and time into another mmo and not willing to stop just to come back. Some will stay ticked off for a long time.


 


So all you people out there that thinks it's a good idea to allow just 1 grief mechanic into a pve server I say go ahead and reap the benefits from it if you think it has any.


 


If people leave wurm they might head over to Xsyon cause it's almost like wurm that only cost 9.99 sub and it comes with a token for land wether you are FTP or premium. Not to mention Greed Monger another sandbox mmo with land claiming and building and a lot more.


 


Sp scare everyone off cause you think you know what everyone is thinking. I've been in this since 1999 when EQ was beta I've been in almost every Non pvp mmo and a couple pvp mmo's and I can tell you what made each one fail. So yes I've done my homework and know a good deal of do's and don'ts in a mmo.


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Sp scare everyone off cause you think you know what everyone is thinking. I've been in this since 1999 when EQ was beta I've been in almost every Non pvp mmo and a couple pvp mmo's and I can tell you what made each one fail. So yes I've done my homework and know a good deal of do's and don'ts in a mmo.

Wurm won't fail because of this rule change. I've seen Wurm change in this manner so many times over the years... and it's still here. Enclosure rules haven't even existed in Wurm for that long. The Indy server itself is older than the rule, as well as older than the deeding system that you know of today. Enclosure rules were placed in the game as a kneejerk reaction to another situation. It wasn't even entirely thought out, it was something that appeased the community most at that given time.

Now, aside from that, I'm pretty sure I know who you are because your name is quite similar to a cluster of deeds on Indy. If so, I know why you're so vocal about this change and why you're fearing it. You can keep crying wolf, but it's falling deaf on my ears. 

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Wurm won't fail because of this rule change. I've seen Wurm change in this manner so many times over the years... and it's still here. Enclosure rules haven't even existed in Wurm for that long. The Indy server itself is older than the rule, as well as older than the deeding system that you know of today. Enclosure rules were placed in the game as a kneejerk reaction to another situation. It wasn't even entirely thought out, it was something that appeased the community most at that given time.

Now, aside from that, I'm pretty sure I know who you are because your name is quite similar to a cluster of deeds on Indy. If so, I know why you're so vocal about this change and why you're fearing it. You can keep crying wolf, but it's falling deaf on my ears. 

Rule or not, but i bet enclosures have been a thing long before Independence was made, am i correct or not? It would be clear common sense, practicality wise to make an enclosure regardless of the "Rules of Protection". Right?

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I'm not cry clearly stating a point I love wurm once had 3 deeds massive deeds and then we had the price hike and I'm unemployed at the moment as well. I never Started enclosures I always deeded till every thing fell apart in my life at the same time Rolf decided to Jack every thing up. So I used the Enclosure rule to hold my land till I can find work and redeed the land that is now in a Enclosure that was once deeded.


 


But no this want happen cause now Rolf and the greedy people want to kick people like me even more down before we can get back on our feet.


I still maintain 1 deed and 1 premium account even tho I'm unemployed. I don't use system to get wurm for free like trader draining ect... I support any game I play so yes I'm upset but hay that's life.


 


I'm clearly stating the facts I threw a lot of time into wurm and money and lost 300 some when 2 of my deeds had to drop out. Other people are in the same situation as me who play wurm as well and others. I watched this land I claimed and deeded in the first place for a year solid and as no one ever came out and did any thing with it I deeded it up and started working it. Like me people have months and years into there land they worked to take it away from any one who worked hard and fell on bad luck is not funny at all.


 


I'm not really upset just defending people as well as my self. And if you think I'm crying you are a fool. I could care less if Rolf tanked this into the ground. I have other mmo's I play and have Life time subs to, 8 to be a matter of a fact. I like wurm a lot yes would hate to see it tank cause people want the ability to raid others on a pve server cause there to lazy to make things them self or just like being total @#$ to others.


There is only one major reason why people want enclosures to vanish and it is to raid there place.


 


Before I leave wurm I will destroy every writ and item in my possession before I allow anyone to have it. You can bank on that.


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Rule or not, but i bet enclosures have been a thing long before Independence was made, am i correct or not? It would be clear common sense, practicality wise to make an enclosure regardless of the "Rules of Protection". Right?

Yes. Players have been making enclosures in Wurm since the beginning (having the ability to). If you didn't deed your enclosure, it was always at risk of being broken into.

Break-ins were far from "rampant". Did it happen? Sure. It's what drove you to buy a village (deed). But, personally, I had a 35x35 enclosure back in my very early days for months and no one attempted to break into it... even though they could.

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The enclosure rules have some good with some bad. However the changes you suggest will turn the entire game into a griefing zone. With no recourse like PVP or player made laws to punish. What are you going to do about these undeeded enclosures who have livestock on them? So is that free game now too? If your GM's think they have problems now, just wait. The neighbor wars and thieves are going to escalate until no one wants to play. 


My suggestions are:


 


1. Get rid of manditory 5 tile perimeter. It suks the player should have the option to use it. Or have it reduced to 1 or 2 tiles. It take room that does not need to be.


 


2. Players can be limited in how many undeeded tile's they enclose. Many people enclose undeeded perimeter because nothing else can be built there to begin with. Newbies come and start building crap, find out they cannot build a house then leave the mess to decay forever. Players who have legally enclosed the limited undeeded tiles by a fence and shed with all walls and a roof should be able to depend on full protection from others having the right to break down their walls and writs.


 


3. Stop allowing more than one alt to own a deed. Yes it cuts into your pocket book but there is no reason for people to have 2 and 3 toons all with deeds. Then only those wealthier players own all the land.


 


4. Highway rules should continue to apply but in limited situations. People who use 2 tile pavers on their own deed's and then decided to restrict public access to it, should have a right to do so. I have recently been griefed over such a matter for a month now. Because I choose to use my paid for deed tiles in other ways and restrict newbie's and devious neighbors from having access to my deed. My suggestion would have been already placed highways when new servers begin. But it is to late for that now.


 


5. One of the problems in my area with the instructions and free roam newbies have is their indiscriminanment tree cutting and dropping their mess about everywhere. They mow down all our forests in a matter of a few weeks. leaving myself or other neighbors to reforest hundreds of tree's. I have been known to plant 300 tree's in a few block range or my deed once a month. Driving many of my neighbors into enclosing their own tree farms. Our area often looks like we are preparing for siege and been in siege with all the walls and newbie damage. Stop telling newbies to settle in a spot nearby and temporarily just to gain skills. Leaving half done settlements behind them a week or month later to rot for the nest 3 months. Leaving entire forests cut down and logs left laying about unused. Encourage them to travel a bit and to branch out from the start area. Stop allowing them to drop all their backpacks and wood shavings and god knows what else, and allowing such long times for them to decay. We do not want this area a barren wasteland or garbage dump. We live here and work hard to make our area look nice. 


 


6. The ultimate suggestion is to allow player voting systems to be put into lace. A player legal system. Allowing players to create their own community and server laws. A Tale In The Desert has had such a system in place since it's beginning and has proved successful for nearly 10 years now. Everything is decided upon by players as to who are the judges, who are the community leaders, how griefers are dealt with. Dev's putting them into place once voted in. This would allow communities to asign road crews that build and repair roadways. Create newbie encampments for them to skill up and rent dwellings without leaving tons of land littered with decaying buildings when they move on or quit game. And may settle many player disputes. As it can also allow us to set punishment for griefing or land hording. Personally I would prefer you spend your time coding new furniture and women's clothing, wall paper and wall tapestries and let the player community empower themselves with the law making and who has a right this or that. 

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i have always seen the perimeter as a buffer zone for passage, not to be fenced off

>>>>>i think there should only be a minimum of 1 tile perimeter for each deed.<<<<<

currently with the rules, there is so much impassable lands due to fenced perimeters meeting up with each other or other enclosures, this should have never been possible.

with this you would always have a way through and since you cant do anything else with it that's where the highways would end up.

Note: Aum's post edited to remove points I did not agree with. Click to see original.

 

PERIMEtER IS PUBLIC LAND.  This statement has caused more trouble to wurm than anything i can think of,  No where in the rules have i seen it designted as public, it is misinformation given to new players that has created countless problems. Players rolling into a perimeter and hualing off several thousand dirt cannot be allowed.  When you buy a gallon of milk and get one free can ayone in the store walk up to your cart and take it out because its labeled free ?   We are given 5 tiles of perim free as a bonus for buying a deed, this was and still is a very good marketing stategy.  It is attached to a deed and should come with protection.  We all know it was put there as a buffer to provide access to an area with no other access option. Its a big stretch to take that concept and turn it into public land that can be hauled away within the rules.

 

>>>>>I do think adding a 1 tile "Kings Land" (that can only be paved) to outer perimeter would be a good idea, then code in no bashing on perim.<<<<<

Those with existing perims could expand one more tile to save whats built on perim, and in cases of deed lock work it out with neighbor. Yes in some cases gm intervention would be required.

 

For deed perimeters I would recommend they be changed in this manner as only 1 tile required automatically with deed placement. For the reasons mentioned with no building allowed within (fences,hedges,houses) as this would allow for free passage between all deeds by either building roads, highways, or just as wild land.

 

The 5 tile required perimeter is excessive and a poorly thought out concept which was mainly for access beyond deeded areas. As currently enabled it does not even serve that purpose since deed owners or even anyone can enclose the 5 tile required perimeter between deeds making the area impassable anyway. Reducing it to a required 1 tile no build perimeter would serve this purpose in the desired manner.

 

Existing deeds could be grandfathered to remain as they are or better yet have the 4 tiles of their existing perimeter converted to deed tiles (at no additional cost) and the remaining 1 tile converted to this new system. Additional perimeter would still be available to be purchased at the current rates but limited in accordance with the deed size.

 

As for all the end time of Wurm talk in conjunction with these proposed changes, I agree with AsIDecay in that Wurm has sustained much more detrimental changes than this over the years and this will just be another bump in the road on the winding one that leads to the door of further progress. Concerns are valid but conversely overblown in their impact upon the games sustainability, much less its future growth.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes
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Wurm won't fail because of this rule change. I've seen Wurm change in this manner so many times over the years... and it's still here. Enclosure rules haven't even existed in Wurm for that long. The Indy server itself is older than the rule, as well as older than the deeding system that you know of today. Enclosure rules were placed in the game as a kneejerk reaction to another situation. It wasn't even entirely thought out, it was something that appeased the community most at that given time.

 

 

Wurm survived changes like this in the past because there was nothing else like it for people to switch to. That is not true today with so many new upcoming sandbox games in the works. 

 

I will never forget what happened to Star Wars Galaxies after they made major game-changing changes that caused a mass exodus of players. Once happy and prosperous villages and cities became ghost towns overnight. Some of us stayed around a while to see if things would get better but they didn't so we moved on. Today the game doesn't even exist anymore. I would hate to see that happen to Wurm..

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As for all the end time of Wurm talk in conjunction with these proposed changes, I agree with AsIDecay in that Wurm has sustained much more detrimental changes than this over the years and this will just be another bump in the road on the winding one that leads to the door of further progress. Concerns are valid but conversely overblown in their impact upon the games sustainability, much less its future growth.

 

=Ayes=

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i have always seen the perimeter as a buffer zone for passage, not to be fenced off

 

i think there should only be a minimum of 1 tile perimeter for each deed.

 

you cannot build fences or houses on it, only terraform and pave it, it is a right of passage

 

you can grab more perimeter but can't build on it until you actually expand the deed

 

currently with the rules, there is so much impassable lands due to fenced perimeters meeting up with each other or other enclosures, this should have never been possible.

 

but with this you would always have a way through and since you cant do anything else with it that's where the highways would end up.

What a marvelous idea..   Only 2 tiles minimum between deeds instead of 10.  

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The highway rules I'd left as they are, the check should be too much work for the GM, then there are certainly enough players who would take over the art with a subordinate GM function (eg place gm signs on both sides of an destroyed highway, then if nothing happens move the problem forward to an real gm and so on....).


With respect to the enclosure rules I would just offer "enclosure forms", this should allow only a certain size, free or cheap, and should be reactivated monthly by the owner.


Edited by Eject

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 Of course there is always the really wild thought, be grateful for the heads up about coming changes. After all the staff gets slammed on a regular basis for not informing before hand  , when they do  this is what happens? Really?  Seara only tried to offer a bit of input to the best of her ability at this time.  We all know it is wait and see at this point. Lashing out any further does nothing constructive.  Anyone that uses off deed enclosures has time to work out alternative arrangements thanks to the heads up.

Sometimes the staff is not informed of changes in advance either. Just an FYI

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When I first read this thread on my tablet, it had 3 pages. Now it has 21, and I won't have time to read them all, let alone post something afterwards. So if what I write below has already been suggested, please accept my apologies.


 


On the highways, I suggest the following:


  • Somehow, allow tiles to be marked as "public property"
  • Have additional checks on permissions based on this, for instance
    • Prohibit placing a structure on public property tiles
    • Prohibit placing a fence on a border that has public property tiles on each side
    • Prohibit digging on public property
    • Make dropping dirt/sand on a public property tile make piles rather than terraform
    • (need more stuff here to cater for other terraforming, like level/flatten)
    • Make templars ignore KoS characters if they are on deed but on the public property

  • Add functionality to create an application to make tile(s) public property, for instance
    • A player can somehow acquire a "Create public property application form" (Tile context menu/trader?)
    • With the form active, you get extra options in tile context menu: add tile/remove tile depending on whether tile is already on the form. (Should only be allowed to add deeded tiles if player has appropriate deed permissions)
    • In the form context menu, there's a view tiles (brings up markers) and submit option
    • Submitting the form will turn the tiles into public property, possibly pending a GM review of the tiles (which is probably a good safeguard)

  • Add functionality to create an application to make changes to public property
    • As above really, get form, add tiles to it, but also add a description of what it is for, e.g. "Re-routing highway"
    • Submit, get accepted pending GM review, get the usual "roadworks approved by GM xxx" notice boards up
    • Once accepted, the player holding the deed gets a "Planning permission" form for the tiles applied for, with a permission system so others can help do the work. 

  • In an interrim period allow players to get free forms (if they will be chargeable items); dispatch GMs to do mark existing highways; and/or write code to mark all tiles that meet the current definition of highways as "public property". Keep GM enforcement of the highways rule until this work is complete.
Edited by Aldaturo

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Sometimes the staff is not informed of changes in advance either. Just an FYI


 


I agree Rose,  I think Life would be easier for them if they where. 


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If any changes are made to enclosure rules, I think some other things need to be changed as well. One thing is not being allowed to hold more than one deed form per toon. How can we protect our land, if everything is deed it or lose it? We can't all afford to pay for premium on countless alts. It also forces villagers to leave, when they want to stay but hold a deed somewhere for another reason. I don't see any reason for this limitation, other than forcing players to spend more and more money on the game.

 

If I could hold more than one deed without having to use an alt, I would do so. And I'd probably keep the 2nd deed that I'll shortly be getting rid of. As it stands this thread has highlighted how silly it is for me to pay premium + deed on two toons.

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Well then make it possible to expand a deed in one direction at a time and to move the stupid stinking token.  I spend 6 months waiting for a stupid tiney deed to decay (never even finished building a house on it) I am bloked on two sides and cant expand so use enclosure to holp the land I want to expand into once the stupid deed goes bye bye.  Now all the work I did is for nothing.  Bad enough I have to pay full silver cost for massive lake tiles inorder to expand and cant use unless I fill in the lake.  its tiles I cant secure or sue I pay for them every stinking month.  I know you want flying and will change anythingin the game to make it happen.  I hope that you get all that you want and that we the paying players say take the game and play it your self.  I am feed up with the changes and the patches that mess things up untested un thought out and simply forced on us.  While so many promised things from years ago are still no where and other stupid WURM loggic things go uncorected.  Yes why not make it PVP and even allow lock picking and stealingon deeds after all thats likely to be next.  What can we count on Rolf what in this game can we feel safe to trust to put our money and time into that will not be taken from us later at your whim.  Can you please give us a list of what is not going to change.  We work with in the rules you give us to make things as best as we can and you with a type of a key can destroy months to years of work.  I dont know if I can trust anything in this game any more.


 


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Just wanted to say... the $300 that I would have put into Wurm this April... went here instead: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com


 


Richard Garriott actually cares about his product and his customers. So, sorry Rolf. You lose out, buddy.


 


And I bought an account for the wife as well, which you don't see pictured, bringing the total spent up to $300.


 


Small change, I know, overall. But with only about 1000 active players that's gotta add up sooner or later.


 


I'd have happily given this to Wurm instead. But, well, I don't have confidence in you at the moment. So, I'm taking a 'wait and see' stance and voting with my wallet. You don't get my vote this month. Better luck next month.


 


xgb1hi.jpg


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If I could hold more than one deed without having to use an alt, I would do so. And I'd probably keep the 2nd deed that I'll shortly be getting rid of. As it stands this thread has highlighted how silly it is for me to pay premium + deed on two toons.

Actually things are not so worse, the alt must be premium to deed, but will keep deed if depremiumed.

- so just make alt

- premium

- set deed

- sell or use referral (6s value), cash out the 2s starting coins

- forget about alt

So setting a deed on an alt costs exactly 2s - one time fee.

If using the democracy trick it can even be free, but really not worth the hassle.

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