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Rolf

Trader deed disband statistics

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i still think no refound for freezed minds...  everyone can learn something from droping coins all around....   if refound happend lets give all who disband deed with trader money back for 8 years...

 

It's very unclear how the system works and wurmpedia is often wrong in many cases. I can see you don't want happy wurm customers.

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Deed name: The Reach


Server :Elevation


Reason: GM Intervention/Owner changing major mechanics


 


2 traders deed/trader 1 held by bloodthirst  second deed/trader held by hubert


 


second deed name: Skyforge junior


Edited by JockII
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It's very unclear how the system works and wurmpedia is often wrong in many cases. I can see you don't want happy wurm customers.

wurm dont want make u happy customer, from what i see and learn in 2years...  sadly...   

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i lost 2 traders the past 2 years cuz of this, each, was bad timing for me as a maintance would happend, then he would be auto added back to the deed and Bam hes gone with disband, :-(


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Hi Everyone,


 


Please keep in mind this is NOT a promise of reimbursement, simply a collection of data so please keep it to this only.


 


If you have questions in regards to how traders function when disbanding please use the Community Assistance subforum.


 


Regards,


Retrograde


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I lost a trader on a deed I bought from a guildie about 6 months ago. The situation that happened was the guy I bought the trader deed from ended up placing that trader with the mayor of his main deed.


So without realizing this once his main deed popped the trader went with it because it was never part of the deed it was at.


Don't really get how you being the mayor of one deed can place traders on other deeds and they don't become members of the deed you placed it on ?! 


 When this happened I did /support and the response I got was sorry your SOL so after that I bought another trader and placed it back there.  The deed is (The Black Hole)  mayor is Dani (Mag Priest Alt).


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There is no mention of this topic on the Wurm Startup > Update News screen.  How is everyone supposed to know it exists?


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my village lost a trader when "the deed" disbanded on elevation.


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My traders were bought Feb-Mar of 2013 on Release, I lost them on the disband probably around 9 months ago (I've basically forgotten the exact date, but I quit playing Wurm around that time) so I'm not within the 6 month gap, but for reference...

 

 

Logging started 2013-02-25

[21:27:30] Trader_Sir moneybags is now a citizen of An Object On A Shelf!

 

Logging started 2013-03-05

[14:23:11] Trader_Mr rogers is now a citizen of An Object On A Shelf!

 

Logging started 2013-03-30

[02:01:47] Trader_Graverot is now a citizen of An Object On A Shelf!

[04:06:02] Trader_Thirsty is now a citizen of An Object On A Shelf!  <--- Yes I bought two traders within two hours...

 

As I said in a previous post I read the comments saying traders would disappear if the deed disbanded, but I also read that they'd stay and would become a citizen of any new deed that was placed there.  I just assumed that them disappearing was just inaccurate information because who would think a trader would just disappear if the deed they were part of disbanded.

 

Well I was wrong.

 

It was an expensive learning experience.

Edited by Object

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I'm not sure why this game takes such a strict "no help with player errors" stance. The time it takes a GM to apologize and explain why they can't undo a couple miss-clicks could be spent I'm sure in most cases just reverting the accidental damage. I'm sure that there could be people taking advantage of the system or whatever but that's just enacting a policy where you inherently distrust your playerbase. I don't know many online games that don't help when they can in "player error" cases, like if someone accidentally destroys a crucial item. If there's a log and it's easily provable, why not? So what if someone did or didn't know that a trader would leave when they tried to move their token? If they call a GM because their trader is gone in a village they are trying to maintain, then it was a mistake and in my eyes it seems a bit coldhearted to tell people that they are out of luck. If this policy actually costs Rolf money like he claims, then I'm not sure what other reason there is to deny what is most likely a quick fix for a catastrophic error.


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There was a bug for a time where traders did not disband when the deed did. I recall this happening mostly around early Goldv2, people would occasionally discover lone traders in the woods (and then use em as their own personal piggy banks) <_<


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the settlement of Minas Morgul in Pristine was disbanded around the end of September early October lost 1 trader would be quite grateful to get a refund on him after spending all of that money


Edited by shadowoftheapocalypse

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the settlement of Minas Morgul in Pristine was disbanded around the end of September early October lost 1 trader would be quite grateful to get a refund on him after spending all of that money

 

 

The time period is 6 months back so in case you manually disbanded your deed around the 27th of Sept or later and lost traders, please write here.

 

This is just pure statistics and not a promise of reimbursement but depending on the outcome we may consider it for those who participate.

 

He was not referring to deed that disbanded due to lack of upkeep after players quited the game.

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There was a bug for a time where traders did not disband when the deed did. I recall this happening mostly around early Goldv2, people would occasionally discover lone traders in the woods (and then use em as their own personal piggy banks) <_<

 

I'm really confused as to why this is a bug and not how it was supposed to be.  Why would it be intended to automatically remove traders?  I understand the idea of "So other people can't use them."  So why isn't there an actual command to manually remove a trader for people who are quitting Wurm and do not want their traders to fall into someone elses hand.

 

If I wanted to quit Wurm why isn't it the default action to leave my traders so someone else can use it as well?  Instead of having to jump through hoops to actually accomplish this.  Removing a trader manually from your deed should make the trader disappear, not if it leaves due to disband...I'm not sure why it was coded this way, it doesn't make any sense.

 

EDIT

 

If I was going to think of any sort of mechanic to make sure that the worlds aren't flooded with traders after 5 years it would be add a shelf life to traders, let's say two years.  If you use the trader effectively reinvesting 50s every two years isn't a hard thing to do at all, but this way any argument made about how traders are too permanent, etc etc, is no longer valid.  I'd even argue for a one year limit but it may be too short for the servers that are only getting 10s a month from their traders.

Edited by Object

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R.I.P Trader Marmaduke, hired with hard earned silvers approx 2 months before the disband of Crystal Oracle on March 9.


This was my priest deed, Duke was placed with my fighter who I swear had his own deed by the time I placed him, the priest wouldn't even be able to reach that spot to do it. Thus shouldn't have been associated with the disbanded deed at all so I'm still confused about why he actually disappeared.


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I have a deed which I disbanded due to wanting to move the token, some traders I had placed  on other deeds poofed in the process (three traders in all).  There was no traders on the actual deed that disbanded.  I got no warning about the traders on the other deeds, I just assumed they would become part of the deed I placed them on. This happened about four months ago.  Please note none of these are just 'trader deeds' all are legitimate well maintained deeds which are just paid for by traders (upkeep of actual deed.) I was fairly new with placing traders, and was basically doing this to help me play the game with less costs to the deed's upkeeps.  If there is a refund please let me know here or in game, I will then disclose all the other information re deeds involved etc.  Thanks.


Edited by Naco

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all that traders will be expanisve for rolf to give refound... 

rolf has deep pockets. They got 60% deeper not long ago ;)

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I don't remember how long ago it was but when but when The Deed on Elevation disbanded, I kicked the trader out but he decided to make himself a villager again before the 24 hour timer was up on the disband and vaporized himself.


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I lost a trader on a deed I bought from a guildie about 6 months ago. The situation that happened was the guy I bought the trader deed from ended up placing that trader with the mayor of his main deed.

So without realizing this once his main deed popped the trader went with it because it was never part of the deed it was at.

Don't really get how you being the mayor of one deed can place traders on other deeds and they don't become members of the deed you placed it on ?! 

 When this happened I did /support and the response I got was sorry your SOL so after that I bought another trader and placed it back there.  The deed is (The Black Hole)  mayor is Dani (Mag Priest Alt).

 

Don't forget tax exist. If you want to plant a trader at some popular deed you don't own and set tax to max, you'll eventually get upkeep added to your deed if people spend money with them. With the 63 tiles rule, first come first serve if the space are limited and the deed mayor allows it.

 

 

I have a deed which I disbanded due to wanting to move the token, some traders I had placed  on other deeds poofed in the process (three traders in all).  There was no traders on the actual deed that disbanded.  I got no warning about the traders on the other deeds, I just assumed they would become part of the deed I placed them on. This happened about four months ago.  Please note none of these are just 'trader deeds' all are legitimate well maintained deeds which are just paid for by traders (upkeep of actual deed.) I was fairly new with placing traders, and was basically doing this to help me play the game with less costs to the deed's upkeeps.  If there is a refund please let me know here or in game, I will then disclose all the other information re deeds involved etc.  Thanks.

 

Do keep in mind it does mention it when you plant the trader. I don't have the text to copy and paste at the moment. It is mentioned on wiki as well. I do agree that there should be a warning message about it when you disband the deed.

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And again. Wondering if you received enough statistics to make a decision on this or is this in the round file under "ignore... it will go away?"


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Only just seen this post


 


Goring Docks on Deliverance, 1 trader


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Why not just send those a new trader form magically to their inventory who lost theirs due to bug or not knowing mechanics.


Clearly it was not their wish to get rid of the trader.  It was accident.


And it can be tracked if a trader was there before. Right?


People would be happy over getting back what they spent their hard earned money on.


Refunding the money costs, giving them a trader form, does not cost anything :-)


I agree though that there should be rather an option on the trader to get rid of him without having to disband the deed first.


Ideally trader and deed would be independent. If one disbands, the other would remain.


Maybe even with a writ to pick it up and replace similar to a merchant.


I would like that option alot, because sometimes when you remodel the deed, you now have to chart your actions around the trader.


If you could move him as situation requires, it would be very awesome and allow more freedom in redesigning deeds or just placing them


in houses by the street, if you can still reconsider it easily and pick trader up and place it out again like with a merchant.


I would even see people moving a bit more and redesigning the landscape more with that additional freedom.


It would also help against the trader capturing practice that so often causes conflicts.


 


For the statistic: I know of at least one person directly who lost a trader due to a deed disband, without knowing in advance that it would kill the trader.


Person got frustrated and has not been seen around since it happened.


Edited by Smilingcat

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I was never able to move my deed token on my main deed because of this. Not that I'd need to now anyway, due to one side expansions now, but back then. I couldn't move it because of the trader and so all of my deed wasn't covered by the deed because we miscalculated the size of it that we needed. So my personal idea on this would be one of three options that would resolve this conflict that happens for the moving of a token.


 


Option 1: 


The player receives personal ownership of the trader and is able to place it again after it disappears due to disbanding with a clean slate (no previous sold items to it or coin will remain on trader, completely like it was placed the first time only without coin). This way if the player moves the token they do not lose out on something as expensive as the trader, especially when it's paid for with cash like both of mine were. This would also allow the player to move the trader at any time, much like a merchant as it shoulda been from the start in my oppinion in case the player moves deeds, as many do every week. Still keep the minimal distances from other traders in effect, as it would be the player's fault anyhow for setting up so close to other traders.


 


Option 2:


Make it so that the trader remains for 24 hours after the deed is disbanded. This gives plenty of time for the player to remake the same deed name and the deed to get ownership over the trader again. The trader can't be moved once placed, but if the deed's token needs moved it can be moved without the worry of losing the trader the player had purchased either with cash or ingame currency. If the deed name is changed, then the trader will not return to it and vanish after 24 hours unless the deed name was changed by the deed itself and not an initial creation.


 


Option 3: 


Allow settlement tokens to be Push/Pulled or even loaded in order to be moved without having to cost the player to move it. This is probably the easiest way to go about it. While moving the current deed borders will remain and once it's finished being moved the player should be prompted with a notice asking if they want to move the borders to match the current token location as they were previously. It would be possible to just say no and keep the older borders due to the one sided expansions now as well. While being pushed/pulled or loaded, the token is inactive and acts as it did in settlement deed form where the borders aren't moving while it's moving for obvious reasons.


 


 


Eh just some ideas that I would find beneficial to players and traders alike. The main point here was to allow the token to be moved without removing the traders, doesn't much matter how it's done. I do believe it should be allowed though as I paid over $220 for my two traders and for a lower-middle class family like mine that is a lot of money to give to a game for the sake of having a trader on a deed. I know it's voluntary and idc for that as I wanted it, but I don't think it should disappear simply because the deed token needed to be moved. 


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