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Madrocks

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Oh please haha, comparing apples and oranges much?

 

Maybe once Wurm Online has professional players and tournaments etc we can be outrage when Rolf intervenes in a in game situation. Till then, embrace Wurm for what it is. 

 

Hello there.

 

 

People spent lots of IRL money in Wurm besides lots of playtime and dedication, just for your information.

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Oh please haha, comparing apples and oranges much?

 

Maybe once Wurm Online has professional players and tournaments etc we can be outrage when Rolf intervenes in a in game situation. Till then, embrace Wurm for what it is. 

 

When this happens to you, are we allowed to laugh?

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When this happens to you, are we allowed to laugh?

 

 

Of course, though you won't see me taking things so seriously. I run around on Chaos with an inventory worth around 400euro, I accept the risks of losing that every-time I chose to leave deed. I also choose the risk of living on a full loot PvP sever and accept that if I want to protect my items then I'll have to defend them using legitimate game mechanics such as actually being present to atleast attempt to fight off anyone who wants to take them, not exploits. 

 

 

Sure people put time and money into this game just like any other game but like I said comparing professional gaming torments to Wurm is well as I said apples and oranges. Sure you don't always have to agree with what happens but you sure as heck don't have to go off the deep end like some people have. 

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Its fun watching half the posts in this thread disappear.

 

It's probably far less important what happens in this thread, or even this forum, compared to discussions in other places.

 

Gaming is just like every other scene - reputation matters.

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It's probably far less important what happens in this thread, or even this forum, compared to discussions in other places.

 

Gaming is just like every other scene - reputation matters.

 

 

What? can you explain please?

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What? can you explain please?

 

Probably referring to IRC where people can talk directly to Rolf to bring up topics?

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Nope. Games get talked about in many places. We see discussions here about other games. This game is discussed in other gaming forums.


Lot's of people start playing here BECAUSE they heard about it in other places.


 


While it's possible to try and control the information here by censorship that doesn't work for other places. Stories like the goings on here circulate - it's normal - it's what people do. They talk.


 


And in this case the message is probably not very complimentary, which is a great shame, but considering what people can see, rather predictable.


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What can i say about dissapearing posts? The most disgusting thing i've ever seen. I PMed enki about this and of course he didnt reply. What did i even expect? But the fact that our posts can be removed just like that without any indication whatsoever that they were the without any warning is absolutely disgusting. 


I have no problems with my post getting removed or edited if i can get a warning of why it was edited and see who edited it.  


Edited by atazs

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Yup imment lawsuit over this for sure...not. Fact was this code had been in for months, it had been said pubicly that vaults werent intended and they were an expoilt. Rolf at the time he did this thought the change had been put it the patch notes but was clearly overlooked. All Rolf did was ensure a group of raiders were able to reach their earned loot after they spent considerable time and effort breaching a deed and attempting to breach the mine using the code in place. Of course there is other ways the situtation could have been handled but I can understand the reason he did this. Either way this whole thing has been blown so far out of proportion its close to reaching orbit.

 

 

Mol Rehan should have had enough common sense and honor to know what kind of ###### storm this was going to cause and back away from the loot, regardless of whether or not it was technically "legal" and within the rules.

 

YOU KNEW DAMN WELL THE REAL SITUATION WAS NOT COMMON KNOWLEDGE OR KNOWN TO THE ENEMY. You used a technicality to get the loot, you circumvented the spirit of the rules, and you shamed our Kingdom in doing do. The actions of the Forces of Mol Rehan on that day brought dishonor to our Kingdom.

 

There is no justification for the events that took place that day.

 

(Yes I am MR, I have been for years. If you are the original Emoo I lived next to at Alchemist Bay then you might remember that. I stay off Chaos and Epic because I suck at PvP and our Kingdom would suffer by my participation in PvP, that's just common sense. On that day MR at Sparta should have also had enough common sense to back away as well.)

Edited by Kyrmius
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 "[02:35:41] <Rolf> no i have other important things to do in my life besides listening to upset players that do not agree with a ruling".

 

What is wrong with this? Do you expect Rolf to be online 24/7 to answer player concerns? Entitlement at its finest.

 

Have you considered that maybe Rolf had something way more important than Wurm to attend to?

 

You say it is damaging to the game, what if Rolf had an appointment with a new developer. What if he had an appointment with the hosting company.

 

It does not have to be game related stuff for him to be justified in saying that.

 

What if it was something personal like a doctors visit or whatever. It is seriously low to take out quotes like that out of context. He even apologised to everyone in IRC that he had to go.

 

He even came back to address the issue later the same night.

 

Don't give him that crap.

Edited by Lau
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What is wrong with this? Do you expect Rolf to be online 24/7 to answer player concerns? Entitlement at its finest.

 

Have you considered that maybe Rolf had something way more important than Wurm to attend to?

 

You say it is damaging to the game, what if Rolf had an appointment with a new developer. What if he had an appointment with the hosting company.

 

It does not have to be game related stuff for him to be justified in saying that.

 

What if it was something personal like a doctors visit or whatever. It is seriously low to take out quotes like that out of context. He even apologised to everyone in IRC that he had to go.

 

He even came back to address the issue later the same night.

 

Don't give him that crap.

So if you pay someone to mow your lawn they say ok I will mow it then when they get to the lawn they said " I gotta go sorry more important things to do cya" thats ok with you?

Edited by Madrocks

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These analogies are terrible. If you have such big problems with the fact that Rolf is not your servant, then quit.


 


This even fits well with your analogy. If the guy you hire to mow your lawn doesn't live up to your expectations. You don't keep paying him for his service.


Edited by Lau
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These analogies are terrible. If you have such big problems with the fact that Rolf is not your servant, then quit.

 

This even fits well with your analogy. If the guy you hire to mow your lawn doesn't live up to your expectations. You don't keep paying him for his service.

 

So you are asking for people to stop paying for the game ?

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If you can't come to terms with the fact that the developers are not your personal servants then yes. In fact you should quit all gaming because no devs will ever like you as a customer.


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Remember that time..... GM's intervened when BL placed a deed where HoM was supposed to be planted...? It's not like we put work to create towers or anything, and put money into the deed.... I remember that BS greatly where a GM forced us to disband the deed because people cried because we occupied the land they were planning to use for HoM.

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Noone's ever actually said, at what point you became aware this change was implemented, and how. You don't randomly start disintegrating tiles in the hope it works after years of not.


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I agree it was, with hindsight, wrong of Rolf to intervene in the way that he did, but he clearly reallised that an oversight had been made and acted upon it, for better or worse. Whether good or bad, what's done is done now and nothing can change that fact. 


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Noone's ever actually said, at what point you became aware this change was implemented, and how. You don't randomly start disintegrating tiles in the hope it works after years of not.

@Thornbush

Refer to my post in this thread.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/98382-update-on-the-reinforcements-situation-spells-and-favour/page-8#entry994912

We found out that it is actually possible to disintegrate reinforcements when Rolf responded to a support call inquiring about safe vaults. He responded to it on the 24th, the day after MR destroyed Sparta (My timezone may be bit off). Soon after learning of this, MR players at Kratos returned to Sparta and attempted to disintegrate the reinforced wall.

No change was implemented. The code/mechanic had been in the game the entire time but everyone assumed it didn't work because of poor descriptions, lack of information and nobody testing it.

Edited by RomaN

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No one is going to be satisfied in the end here, I love how all of a sudden its an "exploit" to make a safe mine because if that's the case 99.98% of the people that play on the Epic cluster and Wild need to be banned right now.


 


Also I love how people are saying "this is a game deal with it" but some individuals spent over 24 hours raiding a deed and at the end they were mad because they couldn't get loot from an "exploited" mine system in a game. I would invest my time a little more wisely in the future because I don't think this is helping your 401k at all.


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Maybe we all should just go MR and have our own game creator hotline.


 


https://twitter.com/RolfJannson



 



 


Let's hire a dev/creator for every kingdom


Edited by Sklo:D

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The biggest, easiest exploit available at this time seems to be a support call.


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What is wrong with this? Do you expect Rolf to be online 24/7 to answer player concerns? Entitlement at its finest.

 

Have you considered that maybe Rolf had something way more important than Wurm to attend to?

 

You say it is damaging to the game, what if Rolf had an appointment with a new developer. What if he had an appointment with the hosting company.

 

It does not have to be game related stuff for him to be justified in saying that.

 

What if it was something personal like a doctors visit or whatever. It is seriously low to take out quotes like that out of context. He even apologised to everyone in IRC that he had to go.

 

He even came back to address the issue later the same night.

 

Don't give him that crap.

Lau,

 

The issue isn't that he had something he considered more important to do or not.  The wording used in the statement implies that customers have no importance as long as they disagree with him.

 

Do I think this was the intent? No, I just think Rolf just has no PR skills.  This isn't a bad thing per-say, but the message could have been phrased differently and not been so inflammatory.

 

Sure, some folks are crossing lines in their comments back to the Dev team, but as a company (or a rep for a company) you cannot sink to the same level, because everything you say and do is judged as the view of the company.  You can put any disclaimer you like on your opinion, but when you wear any "Staff" tag while expressing that opinion, it tends to become associated to the view of the company.

 

Rolf doesn't have the freedom to say whatever comes to mind in a "public" venue for this same reason.  When speaking to customers or about his business ventures, he is always "on the clock" and he speaks on the part of the company he owns.

 

Is it fair? No, but it is how customer based businesses are and why the need for a strong PR team (and letting that team do its job) is so important.

 

I've owned my own sales company, it's stressful not knowing when something you said is going to be taken out of context or intentionally distorted, and I've made some of the same mistakes.  It might not ruin a company if it happens once or twice, but when it becomes a recurring theme, it can very much so.

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Very well put Hussars.  No matter the validity of what he he did, how Rolf handled the situation was a PR disaster.  And when it comes to the success of any company, you have to have good PR, or you will never succeed.  Reminds me of an old saying, you never get a second chance to make a first impression, and with first impressions like this on the gaming forums, I wonder how many never bother to check out a game with an owner that feels such actions are acceptable.


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::Quick note/commentary::


I've had a bit to think about posting this reply, and I made some heavy edits/changes to the content before deciding to post this.  It's not my intent to throw anyone under the bus, simply to provide commentary on the current issue.


::/comments::


 


What I really hate about these issues is that I can (and do) appreciate that Rolf (as well as any of the staff) treats us (the user base) mostly like friends in that they can say things without feeling the need to censor it.  But it is very difficult to "switch hats" in a single conversation containing so much emotional investment without saying something like "While as a player I can understand your issue, as a business we need to do this <insert needed action here>"


 


Personal views behind the first spoiler tag (for ease of ignoring or in case the staff feel it needs to be removed/edited for any reason):



I've said it in other threads, Rolf is a programmer as well as the owner of the company, (if he is anything like the other programmers/engineers I work with) as a programmer he likely tends to want to see his code working as intended in the best possible manner.  As the company owner, no one within the company can actually reign him in from making on the fly changes/decisions, they can only provide feedback when possible and/or simply deal with the fallout from the change.


 


My personal experience with coders of all levels is that getting them to not make off the cuff changes is most of the challenge.  When you have someone who has had almost total control for most of a decade, and a core user group who previously tended to roll with the punches, this becomes a larger challenge because that interaction dynamic needs to change.



 


The game has grown, the user base has changed (no matter if anyone likes it or not), and the players now do not give as much leeway as they once did.  Yes, a portion of the user base can (and does) take it too far at times, but that is why you have a PR firewall.


 


As a successful game company*, it's time to mature as a business.  The team has made a lot of great strides in this direction within the last year or two, yes they stumble from time to time, chalk it up to growing pains, but learn from the issues, don't repeat them.


 



*I say they are successful because they are able to continue adding content, hiring full time staff, and generally growing in status.  They don't need 2 million user accounts, they just need to make enough money to survive and grow.  But as in life, success is measured differently for everyone.



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