Update on the Reinforcements situation, spells and favour.

[RedBaron_Johan 2,853]

Hello everyone

 

As sudden as this all was, I just wanted to grab your attention for a couple of minutes and tell you what brought this about.

 

There are currently several changes going on which are being debated so lets spread some more light on the situation.

 

First of is the direct intervention in a PVP situation where a bug was keeping the victorious party from claiming their rightful loot.

This bug has been around for quite some time at this point, to the extent where deeds are built around it and believed to be completely safe.

That has never been the intention. Especially in relation to non deeded territory which should never be untouchable.

We have the same issue with abusing the enclosures on PVE servers where there is also going to be a change in the future.

That is a separate debate in itself and the GM team and us devs have been talking it over for quite some time to especially give the new players another form of viable safe place.

Everyone will be given time to adapt to the new change.

But as we did not announce the change before taking action on this specific event, we feel a compensation is in place.

 

Secondly is the distribution of spells to balance out the ability to get into deeds, especially on the pvp servers.

We are giving the Disintegrate spell to all pvp priests but not on freedom cluster.

The spell will be twice as hard to do for non Magranon priests.

BL has had a strong disadvantage and will also get the Strongwall spell.

There has also been a separate suggestion to be able to mine through reinforced walls, be it with extreme effort.

And that is also key word here, it will not be easy and give people time to react to the situation.

 

Third is the question of balancing gaining favor as a Libila follower, where after a recent change for example garlic would give you a too easy alternative compared to other faiths.

This is being balanced down quite drastically and is being changed right now.

 

We would love to hear your feedback on the topics here as long as you keep it constructive Wurmians.

There is a suggestions committee in the making for better handling these type of situations and getting the top suggestions addressed but also getting effective feedback going quicker between you and us.

 

Thank you for your time!

[Garit 366]

"We are giving the Disintegrate spell to all pvp priests but not on freedom cluster."

 

OH THANK GOD (ROLF) FOR THAT !!!  

[rosedragon 2,282]

Any ETA when ninja nerfs will stop?

It is great that devs try to sort out the issues, but for each ninja nerfs, many players heart broken, many arguments being sung, and many would remember how things can change in a blitz without warning. Sorting out not always put it back together.

 

Please, fix the communication between devs and players, stop undoing your own great works. Thanks.

[Ballad 79]

This bug has been around for quite some time at this point, to the extent where deeds are built around it and believed to be completely safe.

That has never been the intention. Especially in relation to non deeded territory which should never be untouchable.

We have the same issue with abusing the enclosures on PVE servers where there is also going to be a change in the future.

That is a separate debate in itself and the GM team and us devs have been talking it over for quite some time to especially give the new players another form of viable safe place.

Everyone will be given time to adapt to the new change.

 

Could you be more specific, please?

 

is this a referrence to that post about jumping and flying, where we have been suggested enclosures, as we know them now, won't be "legal" anymore on Freedom servers?

 

(Has anyone there read all the negative feed-back?)

 

If you plan on removing the safety of "legal enclosures" on PvE servers, we should know in time. I REALLY don't pay to play a PvP game, and if you are going to lead Freedom clusters to a neverending struggle between deed owners (carebears, living in their secured bubbles etc. etc. etc.) and those griefers, thieves, intruders and so on, willing to break into places they don't belong, let us know in time, please.

 

We've been fair playing and paying for this game, you should be fair playing and tell us when it's the right time to move on and find another game, if we aren't welcome here anymore.

[Toplel 71]

Will the suggestions committee consist of the usual suspects on irc or actually be drawn from a panel of experienced players who understand the difference between, fun and driving players out of the game

[snakegal 177]

I don't have a problem with it being possible to break into reinforced caves as its been an issue for a while but i do have a problem with being tested during a raid. If they knew reinforced walls weren't safe they obviously would have stored their loot elsewhere

[Thorakkanath 444]

Does that mean that on freedom our reinforced mines are still safe? Or just that on freedom mag priests have the edge? And if the latter option is the correct one, I'd suggest adding "inside-the-mine doors" as a way for us to adjust to the changes...you know for people that have mines expanding way past deed borders...

 

There are a lot of grieving opportunities if these "break-ins" become possible on freedom - i wont post which so others dont get ideas

Edited March 25, 2014 by Thorakkanath

[Seara 686]

...you know for people that have mines expanding way past deed borders...

 

Personal view-point, not speaking as staff.

 

So mines on public lands you mean.  I would say those are public mines, if someone wants to spend the favor to break into one.

[Jarosz 189]

I see no point in paying for this game (full disclosure I haven't for a long time) if the live servers are going to be used for live testing bugged features and fixed on the fly by anyone employed to work on the wurm game.

This fix implementation was destabilizing for the game. Where was any documentation on reinforced mines being effected by disintegrate? How was the player to know, given any reasonable doubt (public statement on safe mines), that safe mines were an exploit?

To be honest, how code club has handled wurm dev is what burned me out the most in wurm. I really hope you haven't lost any players over this immediately, but be aware, this event won't be forgotten and just adds more crushing weight to a camel's back.

[RedBaron_Johan 2,853]

There will be a separate post later handling more about the enclosures. We are still working on the details.

But there is more to it then the flying and has been a problem for longer then that specific topic.

It is the matter of big areas of non deeded land being claimed with just enclosures.

And yes you will be given ample time after this is announced in further detail I promise.

 

The suggestions committee will be a group of experienced players who are representing all different servers and faiths.

 

We are addressing the so called "Ninja Nerfs" and this will be one step in the process of getting feedback going faster between us devs and the players.

 

BL might very well be subject to more balancing.

[Issle 793]

Does that mean that on freedom our reinforced mines are still safe? Or just that on freedom mag priests have the edge? And if the latter option is the correct one, I'd suggest adding "inside-the-mine doors" as a way for us to adjust to the changes...you know for people that have mines expanding way past deed borders...

 

There are a lot of grieving opportunities if these "break-ins" become possible on freedom - i wont post which so others dont get ideas

One can already deed over your expanded mine outside your deed and remove the reinforcements. Your off-deed mines were never safe to begin with prividing he could find a way in.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Issle

[ScarfaceRo 79]

 

 

This bug has been around for quite some time at this point, to the extent where deeds are built around it and believed to be completely safe.

That has never been the intention. Especially in relation to non deeded territory which should never be untouchable.

We have the same issue with abusing the enclosures on PVE servers where there is also going to be a change in the future.

That is a separate debate in itself and the GM team and us devs have been talking it over for quite some time to especially give the new players another form of viable safe place.

 

Please do, so it really is "deed it or lose it" - no more megalomanic people who claim huge areas of lands and mines (hundreds and even thousand of tiles) without paying a dime - they should either pay for them and deed them or just learn to scale down and live with less.

 

 

Personal view-point, not speaking as staff.

 

So mines on public lands you mean.  I would say those are public mines, if someone wants to spend the favor to break into one.

 

*THIS*

 

Including on land undeed enclosures.

[JamesR 45]

Sorry. I know you are PR and all, but this is just too little too late. The excuse is a watered down version of the seriousness of the event. I know myself and pretty much my entire village are bringing our dollars to other games. Rolf made this bed with his inept management and unprofessional attitude, and it's a pattern that seems to be the norm more than a passing fad.

 

It was fun while it lasted.

[Revelation 288]

I think what you "have" should not be taken into account if it's not deeded because you don't "have" it.

You want land, deed it, you want what's under the land I feel the same should apply.

 

As a matter of fact I feel the "enclosure" rule is a load of crap as well, and I quite enjoy bashing into them when I find them not complying with the literal rule.

 

 

It is not easy to break the reinforcement, and I don't really see why anyone on freedom would care about spending all that favor to break into a mine likely contianing 2 forges and a bucket.

And if they do, I applaud them for the effort.

I also have a large mine expanding beyond my deed borders but I don't even bother reinforcing, it's not deeded so how much right do I have to it?

[fencejumper 491]

So nice to see that we are giving a long time exclusive spell for mag to lib priests. Definately sounds fair. Yup.

[Alec 728]

There will be a separate post later handling more about the enclosures. We are still working on the details.

But there is more to it then the flying and has been a problem for longer then that specific topic.

It is the matter of big areas of non deeded land being claimed with just enclosures.

And yes you will be given ample time after this is announced in further detail I promise.

 

The suggestions committee will be a group of experienced players who are representing all different servers and faiths.

 

We are addressing the so called "Ninja Nerfs" and this will be one step in the process of getting feedback going faster between us devs and the players.

 

BL might very well be subject to more balancing.

 

 

And how about the hundreds of man hours spent on deeds that were built upon the impression that there were totally safe mines, and it was by no means an intended feature?

[Mormo 353]

If there is a possibility to remove a reinforced tile, should be something to prevent this, this is the balance. How can we prevent this, do we have any tool provided in this game?

[rosedragon 2,282]

The suggestions committee will be a group of experienced players who are representing all different servers and faiths.

 

We are addressing the so called "Ninja Nerfs" and this will be one step in the process of getting feedback going faster between us devs and the players.

 

Were this ever happen before? ( I only heard) and doesn't goes well? I hope it goes well now.. like.. committee should be known and accepted public so people knows who to talk to.

 

Also just read the last change. While at least the change does give all sides equal position game wise, I am not sure in the reality while power and activity shifts a lot. No deeds are prepared to patch up theirs new security leak, the active ones will thrive, the ones that not... might had start being targeted. This shift things around, not sure good or bad.. we will see.

[Busted 289]

 

The suggestions committee will be a group of experienced players who are representing all different servers and faiths.

 

Ah yes, the Wurm CSM. 

[Shadz 525]

*stuff*

The suggestions committee will be a group of experienced players who are representing all different servers and faiths.

 

We are addressing the so called "Ninja Nerfs" and this will be one step in the process of getting feedback going faster between us devs and the players.

*stuff

the suggestions committee should be every single player, both new and old. Not just the 'experienced players'. Choosing a select few would just be wrong and causes biased feedback.

"ninja nerfs" also tend to be due to bias imo. PM a dev, dev doesn't test something for themself, bam, nerf bat smacks a feature that had nothing wrong with it...

[Terpsichore 71]

A lot of people on freedom mine out their deed + 4 tiles of the perimeter and reinforce the 5th tile...thinking the mine would be safe since nobody can deed over that 5th tile. Now those mines aren't safe anymore. This can hardly be called a landgrab and it would take a ton of strongwalls to collapse and reinforce those perimeter tiles.

[Thorakkanath 444]

Personal view-point, not speaking as staff.

 

So mines on public lands you mean.  I would say those are public mines, if someone wants to spend the favor to break into one.

 

Not talking about public mines, but about mines that you spent the time reinforcing and that are in your deeds perimeters just because deeds need to have 5 tiles of perimeters so 10 tiles between 2 deeds you own. 10 tiles where someone can break in and steal things inside just because the game gives limited options.

 

That is grieving at it's best, trying to protect your things but are not able to because the game prevents you from it.

[RedBaron_Johan 2,853]

the suggestions committee should be every single player, both new and old. Not just the 'experienced players'. Choosing a select few would just be wrong and causes biased feedback.

"ninja nerfs" also tend to be due to bias imo. PM a dev, dev doesn't test something for themself, bam, nerf bat smacks a feature that had nothing wrong with it...

The suggestions and basis for the group is all players, the committee is the gatherers of information to make it manageable for us.

[Shadz 525]

The suggestions and basis for the group is all players, the committee is the gatherers of information to make it manageable for us.

So for example. 

 

10 people search through the suggestions & ideas section. Gather some suggestions, discuss amongst themselves then pass the ideas onto the devs, then devs decide if it can be done or not?

[Revelation 288]

 

Not to mention how much bias it shows. I mean Rolf didn't login to personally take away and delete every fountain pan in the game, and yet people are selling them for 60€ a pop if not more. But he did login into the game to surreptitiously aid a party that they themselves according to one account were doing an exploit.

According to Rolf's Philosophy, defending a deed should be advantageous, attacking shouldn't be done without strong defenses, yet one of the participants said the deed was undefended. So basically Rolf himself aided them in breaking his philosophy of how pvp should work.

 Err, what?

I'd like to hear this theory about an exploit used by the attackers in this instance, I could use a good laugh.

 

The deed was "undefended" because JK could not be arsed to come out of their comfortable hobbit shire deeds and drive MR out.

After MR left there was STILL no action undertaken for 14 hours until MR came back. Hmm, sounds a bit lazy imho.

 

Here's how I see it, JK took the lazy and cowardly way out by bashing into their own houses and locking into a mine, then fleeing rather than attempting to lift the siege (unless you call 3 naked alts unhitching carts defense). About 6 people had a few brawls and then fled the scene, leaving one person in a what they assumed was an inacessible mine to do a bit of taunting. For a pvp server I find this unacceptable. Why should we raid and PvP if there is no loot? I'm pretty sure they will now now they know we won't stop. that is after they come back from Freedom after licking their wounds and making puppy dog eyes.

 

Peace out.

 

 

/edit: whoever I was trying to quote seems to have deleted his post, whatever.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Revelation