A comment on the reinforcements situation

[thenewcndo 528]

unnecessary to create propaganda?  I think it is necessary to create propaganda from this,  it gets people motivated to fight against people.  Good or bad.  So in a way MR you might get more pvp from this or you might not.  Who knows. 

 

Though if you believe it isn't MR's fault then all gear and items gotten from this "vault" should be returned to show it wasn't your fault and show good standing.

Don't worry most of Wurm is not dilluted the know how bad this really is, no amount of propaganda can stop the truth that people from Freedom and Epic can even see and they were not even involved in this.

[conmcb25 378]

 

Mines:

There is nothing saying that mines should be totally safe. Reinforcements were supposed to prevent decay and create a strong barrier for entering just like stone walls. In that respect it has been a full barrier which is unintended. Mines are not supposed to be vaults or free regions off deed below ground. If you want to protect your mine you should deed it just like terrain above ground. The alternative is that anyone can hog a whole mountain for the other players for no cost.

The disintegrate spell was designed as a counter to Strongwall with a very high cost and low possibility of success but the possibility should exist (Note that apparently it did not work at all in that respect due to the bug). On freedom servers you will be safe as long as you keep your mines and your things on deed as usual.

 

 

So what are you saying? back in early February on the Freedom servers, griefers were strongwalling ON MY DEED, withOUT permissions.

 

Is that now fixed as well?

 

If not it needs to be.

Edited March 25, 2014 by conmcb25

[rosedragon 2,282]

issle, on football play all the rules already laid up, all the players know what they are against. It is not that suddenly enemies can hold the ball with their hands because the referees says can't hold the ball with hands is unintended.

 

And ohh I love to hear the long term effect of this.

All deeds now easier to break in as you don't have to cata and dig anymore, just find where is theirs weak mine link. I think epic is screwed up more than chaos because epic can't hire 50 templars.

[alaskanbob 225]

I agree loot shouldn't be 100% secure in a cave

 

Doesn't mean you can get a Dev to break into it for you. (whether the feature was bugged or not, fore warning for everyone about the change, it happens in all games when it comes to item security)

 

Documented changes like this should be broadcasted more formally, yes. If the same had happened to me in reverse I would be just as frustrated. I would offer up a come duel me for my share of it but you'd wreck me haha.

 

It has not taken me long to see how corrupted chaos pvp is..and people wonder why it's broken..wonder why no one plays there..the only people that say otherwise are  the ones that get their way everytime.  Not to mention how top heavy...tipping over..like an elephant on a tooth pic,  are moderators in  or part of one sole kingdome.  Is there any suprise outcomes eventuate to favor once constantly.   It must be clear on  a cursory glance why that server is so broken!!!  from the lockdown of spawn sites where leading kingsom camps kills noobs..to the constant pressure  of complain the hardest as a driving force shaping game dev n changes. There presists a very clear bias,  where there can be no suprise why people lose interest.  This clearly could  not have been the intent on onset..yet why does it keep being perpetuated n fostered?

Sthap. You know not of what you speak.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

This is just another fine example of how NOT PUBLISHING thorough release notes, game mechanics, statistics, and formulas is damaging the reputation and respect of Wurm Online.  If Rolf would properly document and publish, things like this would not happen.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Eyesgood

[Redd 4,281]

Dont think people quit understand what happened o.o

 

Rolf didnt just come over and pop the wall for us saying "There shouldnt be fully reinforced mines" he just told us that there is code for disintegrating them down... upon testing we found out that upon a succeeded cast the wall didnt pop and so Rolf just came and took it out for us. Yes he should have documented the change, but he did not just decide it would be a good idea to pop the wall because he didnt like the idea of 100% safe mines.

[Aeris 3,759]

I don't agree with what was done on the PvP server, but since I play on Independence I'll focus on PvE consequences:

Sure, "deed it or lose it", I get it - You want people to pay for their land. Look at it realistically though, especially on Independence where the terrain is less than hospitable, and you'll see that deeding every piece of mine is impossible. When we moved to the server we had all sorts of difficulties with its terrain. The parts of it that aren't mountains are for the most part either a very, very long dig down to rock or very close to the water level. Much of the inhabitated land has been raised from water level and many people had to make mines on mountainsides since they either ended up on a deed close to water level or did not have enough digging skill to open up a mine. This means that either you have to have two deeds (one for the mining space and one for the housing space) or you have to secure an offdeed mine.

I understand very well that you do not wish to encourage securing of offdeed mines, but you have to keep in mind that the server opened years ago and people have been living in a certain way on it ever since. We are still struggling with the fact that we cannot put minedoors on slopes steeper than 90! Many of the people on Independence had to make a mine on the side of a very steep mountain and now have to put up with the fact that they need to put a fence around it and a gatehouse in front of it. Will they now also have to put up with the fact that the mine whose entrance they have to repair and improve regularly due to the terrain difficulties will also be perfectly possible to break into even if they've spent several years securing every tile inside of it?

Of course it is absurd to assume that just because it's possible people will break into mines, but it's the fact that it can happen that matters. Why should it be possible for it to happen?

What business do other players have in our mines on the PvE servers that is so important that they should be allowed to break into them without deeding them themselves first?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Aeris

[Alec 728]

Argh!

 

 

Again with IRC convos that mess up game mechanics.

 

 

I'm very very disappointed in you Rolf and the rest of the staff.

[alaskanbob 225]

Argh!

 

 

Again with IRC convos that mess up game mechanics.

 

 

I'm very very disappointed in you Rolf and the rest of the staff.

It was not an IRC convo.

[Xalorum 766]

Rolf, perhaps you should actually play this game you've created once in awhile.

[WhyThatPost 180]

Rolf, perhaps you should actually play this game you've created once in awhile.

he tried, he quit 

[KanePT 699]

I love it when where discussing philosophy when it should be about praticality.

Sure if the game had a decent population (which with changes like these won't) and if you had a single mechanism that allowed you to be sure that defenders were online same time as attackers, the MAYBE this should apply.

But reallity is: You have a crappy game pop in general, and even worse on PvP, as you yourself admit it. Also, this affects your major player base that doesn't give a rats ass about PvP as much if not more than PvP players. Because well, basically we CAN'T attack people invading our mines on freedom, can we?

 

So maybe, for the sake of the game improving, thing about how it IS instead of how its SUPPOSED TO BE!

Just sayin'.

[Alec 728]

It was not an IRC convo.

 

 

That was the reason that started all this thread and that other thread.

 

I'm kinda tired of having to be on IRC 24/7 if I want to know what is happening, because it seems that is too much trouble to do some proper patch notes.

[Amadee 1,543]

It was not an IRC convo.

 

Where was it then?  Where did the chosen few learn about it while everyone else was left in ignorance?

[Kirtah 54]

Rolf, perhaps you should actually play this game you've created once in awhile.

 

That'd be cool but it's not realistic to expect him to work on and play this game all these years without burning out. I'm sure the Blizzard devs don't play WOW 10 hours a day. All he needs to do is keep in mind that he isn't an active enough player to make decisions without consulting the community to see what finer points he hasn't considered.

[BrokenSanity 717]

upon testing we found out that upon a succeeded cast the wall didnt pop and so Rolf just came and took it out for us.

Did this seriously happen right next to an enemy deed during pvp..? This isn't exaggerated at all?

 

If it did happen like this, it's extremely worrying.

[Xandra 353]

Hi,
 

Once again Freedom gets scr*wed over due to a PvP change. How many times must this happen and how many times must we protest before you pay attention to how unpopular this is. Freedom represents you seemingly don't care.
 
People on Freedom are raging every time you scr*w us over. How many premium players must quit and how many new players must never sign up for premium once they learn how horrible this policy is? You are hurting the income of the game by refusing to acknowledge the problem.

^^ This!!
 
Freedom-PvE is different, and the vast majority of players prefers to play there, nevertheless, or maybe just because of it?
This nerf, once the word is spread and ppl have learned about, will severely hurt a large part of the Freedom-PvE population, and will cause a loss ways larger than the complete Chaos population.
 
Is this so hard to understand?
 
Ppl on Freedom-PvE have mined this way since ages, nearly everybody has large mines by far extending the deed limits, it always was OK to just reinforce your mine borders.
Now, all of our huge, carefully crafted and reinforced mines suddenly are endangered to a single mag priest spell? For only 80 favor? I'm not a Mag priest (I'm Fo, 100 faith), but I never leave my house w/o carrying at least 300 additional favor stored in gems ... 5 casts, without further preparing.
 
Griefers heaven. And the known griefers on Freedom-PvE will rejoice. Many of the long term Freedom-PvE'ers (usually multi-prem, multi-deed), once hit by this, will respond, and vote with their wallets, I'm sure.
 
Enabling this for PvE is a Wurmian suicide, I'm sure. At least a shot with a dumdum .45 bullet right into the foot. Many people on Freedom-PvE are already most unhappy with the constant nerfs of their gaming experience, usually due to "PvP balancing needs". Example:
 

Pets are probably overpowered in many ways.

Please excuse me, Rolf, but do you ever play your own game in PvE (like the overwhelming majority of your customers prefers!)?
You have nerfed our pets into oblivion, log in & try to get any help from a common pet on Freedom-PvE. I can lend you a champ croc anytime, meet me at KinCan. But beware, get good armor, and be sure to have your god-mode-tools ready - the tamed and led champ croc will morph into the equivalent of a middle aged wolf and will be nothing but a sheer nuisance ...
(It harms me while taming (in 90QL armor), and it just irritates a scared goblin (w/o any armor) when tame and led ...)
 
Maybe now, finally, a code split between PvP and PvE?
 
It just doesn't go together. Different rules are crucial, should Wurm want to survive.
PvP and PvE NEED different rule sets. Isn't it obvious?
 
Both would benefit, PvP as well as PvE.
 
PvP could rejoice for more frequent balance updates, crucial for PvP.
PvE could enjoy much longer "nerf circles" and more consistency, crucial for PvE too.
And the thus larger player base would pay the thus larger bill, I'm confident.
 
Have fun!

 

PS: Btw., can some Operator ban Rof from IRC? Might be most beneficial for the game!

Edited March 25, 2014 by Xandra

[Redd 4,281]

Did this seriously happen right next to an enemy deed during pvp..? This isn't exaggerated at all?

 

If it did happen like this, it's extremely worrying.

 

There was no enemies on at the deed at the time. This was something like 50 hours from when we arrived at the deed where the kingdom had just left it for dead. No PvP was happening at the time Rolf did this (unless you count free alts).

[Kirtah 54]

Maybe now, finally, a code split between PvP and PvE?

 

It just doesn't go together. Different rules are crucial, should Wurm want to survive.

PvP and PvE NEED different rule sets. Isn't it obvious?

 

They already have different rule sets. Epic also has a separate rule set. You don't need to fork the codebase to have different settings on different servers. Besides, an actual software fork means you now have to maintain two closely related but ultimately independent projects. As time goes on and the two continue to diverge, fixes and changes can no longer be shared directly. Testing has to be done on both independently. It may be fine at first but ultimately it's a maintenance nightmare because everything now takes longer (up to 2x longer, depending on how much has changed since the fork).

[rosedragon 2,282]

PvP could rejoice for more frequent balance updates, crucial for PvP.

On 99% pvp changes it is not pvp that rejoiced, only one group of pvp. But as one that plays in both pvp and pve, I would give a +1 because pve have nothing to get this nerf. 

[ScarfaceRo 79]

Please let me see if I got this.

People exploited a bug / broken mechanic. Said bug was fixed, people cried hard. Anything else?

Even if a bug works now, counting on it means you do it on your own risk, Really can't see why you should be informed that an exploit was fixed.

And really, no common sense to tell you that impenetrable vaults don't belong to a full loot, full pvp game? To me it looks quite clear as a broken mechanic, which was supposed to be fix sooner or later.

You brag you play a full pvp, full loot game, yet you want impenetrable vaults and you whine when loosing loot. Go play on PVE servers then, carebears!

And in PVE - great! Deed it or lose it; want a huge mine, pay for a huge mine. If not, learn to live with less. No more freebies just because you was there firsy, you are megalomanic and want hundreds of tiles large mine, but you are cheap enough to actually pay for it.

Rolf, don't worry; no matter how hard you try, haters gonna hate and whiners gonna whine.

Edited March 25, 2014 by ScarfaceRo

[Fooligun 591]

Please let me see if I got this.

People exploited a bug / broken mechanic. Said bug was fixed, people cried hard. Anything else?

Even if a bug works now, counting on it means you do it on your own risk, Really can't see why you should be informed that an exploit was fixed.

You brag you play a full pvp, full loot game, yet you want impenetrable vaults and you whine when loosing loot. Go play on PVE servers then, carebears!

Rolf, don't worry; no matter how hard you try, haters gonna hate and whiners gonna whine.

 

 

You don't have it right no. I don't know how you think it would even be an exploit when its been around since I started playing 2000 days ago...

[KanePT 699]

You don't have it right no. I don't know how you think it would even be an exploit when its been around since I started playing 2000 days ago...

Not to mention, and i'm recalling the on-deed lamps thing. Rolf has a tendency to label anything he wants to change as a bug, even when he changed it before on popular demand, as was the case with on-deed lamps.

Up till a couple days ago, Reinforced walls were supposed, by all accounts to be removed only on deed by mayors or players with proper permissions.

 

Now, some players whinnied, Rolf intervened. Directly, on a raid, helping the attackers... _{Precedent for allowing GM to help their buddies?}

And now what was a security feature of the game for 8 years? give or take? is now a bug.

It might have even been planned otherwise. But since Code club's policy on informing players on game mechanics is NOT. It was always assumed by everyone, except probably Rolf that is how it was supposed to work.

And even if it was a bug, its been so ingrained, and became such a staple of deed security on PvP and PvE, that, specially considering that the game isn't working on the optimal conditions like Rolf himself admitted. No one in their right mind can consider this a prudent and well thought decision. Specially when Rolf instead of just fixing it rolling a patch and allowing everyone to know about it, went about and directly benefited a party in PvP.

[Heboric 808]

Reading this all in my morning.

 

Wow.....

[Amadee 1,543]

Please let me see if I got this.

People exploited a bug / broken mechanic. Said bug was fixed, people cried hard. Anything else?

Even if a bug works now, counting on it means you do it on your own risk, Really can't see why you should be informed that an exploit was fixed.

You brag you play a full pvp, full loot game, yet you want impenetrable vaults and you whine when loosing loot. Go play on PVE servers then, carebears!

And in PVE - great! Deed it or lose it; want a huge mine, pay for a huge mine. If not, learn to live with less. No more freebies just because you was there firsy, you are megalomanic and want hundreds of tiles large mine, but you are cheap enough to actually pay for it.

Rolf, don't worry; no matter how hard you try, haters gonna hate and whiners gonna whine.

 

Hmm. Well speaking as a "carebear" from the outside looking in.........let me see if I have this right.  So in pvp, if you've been using a game mechanic the same way that both sides have been using it since forever......., and one day in IRC with a few people Rolf decides that this is an exploit (no one else knows it's an exploit, nothing on the forums about it)......, and Rolf later informs a few people in IRC that he's put in a "fix" for it, (again, nothing on forums, no one else knows)......, and those few people then tell their friends,  and run out and "test" it by raiding your deed......, and then if it doesn't work, they tell Rolf (again clandestinely in IRC)........., and Rolf then goes to your deed and makes it work for them...., then you find out and complain, that makes you a cry baby and "carebear?"  You really think that's ok?  Just wondering.