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Caroligan

Move a token, lose a trader... BEWARE! [SEE UPDATE]

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First, I love this game. Of all the MMO's I've shoveled money into over the years, I find this one the most appealing to me. That being said, certain aspects of the game can seriously (Bleep) me the (Bleep) off.
 
I just relocated my deed token in order to make it a bit larger. I couldn't just expand because of bordering deed perimeters. Went through the in-game disband procedure step-by-step and one hour later, poof, no more deed. Went upstairs to buy a new settlement form from my trader and... "where the (bleep) is my trader?
 
So I open a ticket and am told that I cannot be reimbursed because it is a "player" mistake and that [11:33:58] <Name withheld to protect the innocent> its normal the trader disband with the village if they villagers, to avoid it you should have removed it as a villager.

 

After digging around in wiki and trader fine print I find that information, but here's the point. If it's something of such magnitude as to cause a player the loss of 50s (113.00USD) at current Euro exchange rates on the Wurm Store, why not put a WARNING! in the in-game disband decision tree. "HEY! YOU'RE ABOUT TO LOSE A MAJOR IN-GAME INVESTMENT! DO YOU WISH TO CONTINUE?" even in WOW they have you type in "delete" as confirmation before deleting certain equipment or characters.

 

Yes, the current rule of law is correct. Yes, the information is out there. I understand this. But to have something this important with so little protection against a "player mistake" seems down right... smarmy, for lack of a better word. If I want to replace the trader I now have to shell out another 80 Euros ($113.00 USD) for something a GM could simply re-instate. Once again, other MMO's, WoW for example, will actually recover your character and as much equipment as they can if it were truly a "player mistake".

 

Dev's, Rolf, whoever... fix this. you know it's the right thing to do.

 

UPDATE!

 

Please go to http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/98536-trader-deed-disband-statistics/ and post appropriately for Rolf to gather statistics if you have lost a trader accidently when disbanding a deed to move a token.

Edited by Caroligan
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Yeah, the absolutely ruthless unfriendly nature of many aspects of the game is simply compounded by the number of trolls that live on the forum here.


 


Sorry to hear about your loss, that is just sick.

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the solution is not big warning banners


the solution is to allow us expand deeds to one direction 8)


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Back under the old deed system when traders came as part of a village above a certain size, I guess it made sense then that the trader went with the village. However the system is no longer the same and traders are purchased separately, so it seems at least to me this behavior seems wrong and potentially a bug.


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I thought they did give the trader back under these mistakes i swear i remember another guy getting his back with the same exact circumstances.  (Edit: i believe it was the original Mattown that was reimbursed one of his on Deliverance for this) 


 


Maybe an upkeep/drain disband and you lose it but if it is a player disband you don't would be a better system? 


Edited by Kegan
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I agree dipse, however I haven't played as long as some to know the old deed system. I do have some friends that have played since then an they are perplexed by this as well. Hopefully you can get it resolved if it is a bug and convince someone there at Wurm HQ that my trader needs reinstated :)


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At the very least 50s should be reimbursed for a faulty system.  There is no warning that this would happen and even on the wiki there is just a tiny snippet about it that you can easily overlook.  We are a bit outraged, ive played the game for at least 7 years and watched the bugs roll in and most of the time if it was an honest mistake and there was little to no way of knowing that something would happen GM's have reversed a major screw up.  So please someone higher up look at this and maybe do something about it, It was a huge investment by us and it seems silly that simply wanting to move a token 12 spaces to the left should do this.


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I agree dipse, however I haven't played as long as some to know the old deed system. I do have some friends that have played since then an they are perplexed by this as well. Hopefully you can get it resolved if it is a bug and convince someone there at Wurm HQ that my trader needs reinstated :)

I would pm Enki for a second opinion if it was not him that told you that. 

Edited by Kegan

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+1   I agree with the sentiment that this is something that should be handled as a 'customer service' event.   Even a 'client developer' mentioned above that they may consider this a bug.  Everything is logged, so it would be easy enough to confirm the mistake was made, right?  If not wanting to spend effort on it right away, a 50s reimbursement would probably be the quickest solution.    I will be interested to see the end result of this... 


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Never understood the idea why a trader would leave if you disband in the first place...


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I would pm Enki for a second opinion if it was not him that told you that. 

Thanks, I tried to PM but they are not on at this time. I'll try again later.

 

Thanks to everyone for your support on this, nice to see the community pull together when something needs fixed.

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I'm sorry you lost your trader because Wurm is fairly archiac and outdated.


 


I would continue to PM, asking for some form of representation or reimbursement. Don't give up!


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Thanks, I tried to PM but they are not on at this time. I'll try again later.

 

Thanks to everyone for your support on this, nice to see the community pull together when something needs fixed.

probably has in-game pms off so best bet is to send a forum pm. 

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I highly doubt that you will get any form of reimbursement. If i remember right (not 100% on this though) , when you place a Trader it does actually warn you that disbanding will remove it.


 


While i agree it is not a nice thing to happen, it has happened to plenty of others and to my knowledge non were ever given any reimbursement for it.  Replacement / reimbursements only happen due to bugs, and this is definately not a bug, but how the system works and how it has worked for years.


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I highly doubt that you will get any form of reimbursement. If i remember right (not 100% on this though) , when you place a Trader it does actually warn you that disbanding will remove it.

 

While i agree it is not a nice thing to happen, it has happened to plenty of others and to my knowledge non were ever given any reimbursement for it.  Replacement / reimbursements only happen due to bugs, and this is definately not a bug, but how the system works and how it has worked for years.

 

Like I said, the information is out there albeit in various non-descript areas without much emphasis on the potential consequences of disbanding the deed and ergo the trader as well. This is what makes it have the "smarmy" feel. Like a loan shark glossing over the 50% interest and vig. Conversely speaking, what would be the harm in not only having the information appear when you place a trader, but also when you are about to disband a deed that will in effect disband the trader as well?

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Someone needs to make a stand to change the broken system.


 


I wholeheartedly encourage you ignore people who've simply accepted it as "the way it's always been" - and fight until you either force them to make a change to the warning system to pop up during deed disbanding - or start a new policy of reimbursing what is closer related to a failure in the system, than a failure in the player's actions.


 


If GM's can band together to make a change on how disintegrate works on a dime, then there is no reason why they can't band together to fix what is a game-breaking issue. Something of this magnitude will force people who experience it to quit. Very few people are going to buck up and accept an $80 wash because of a flaw in the system, no matter how good a game is.


Edited by Dairuka
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I too think the people saying "It's the way it has always been" are part of the problem, and not part of the solution.  Even if a reimbursement does not happen, just knowing that we helped prevent this happen in the future to unsuspecting players by getting a new feature added, will be a reward within itself.    (EVEN IF IT WARNS YOU WHEN YOU PLACE IT, you might not remember that MONTHS/YEARS LATER.)

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probably has in-game pms off so best bet is to send a forum pm. 

Just did, thanks for the suggestion :)

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I know this is an undesirable situation to be in with as much as people put into Traders.  We have worked to make this common knowledge with announcements and information added to the Trader information dialogues.  I agree that there needs to be some notice added to Deed management screens as well.


We will suggest this and see what the Devs think.


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Bottom line is... it's screwed up and flawed, we know it's screwed up and flawed. We DO have the power to make it a customer services issue and deal with it on a case-by-case basis until the flaws are fixed, however we choose not to.


 


Bottom, bottom line... I'm screwed.


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See, the information is out there. On the Wiki, somewhere hidden deep in these forums, also likely in one of those update messages you have to click on at start up from many moons ago. It's even right there when you place the damned thing. However, the ONE place it should be, lit up like Broadway, is right there when you are about to make a 50s mistake. Shoddy coding if you ask me.


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The only problem I see with changing this rule and game mechanic, would be the absolute lack of anyway to dismiss a trader.  I know it's uncommon and rare for anyone to WANT to dismiss a trader, but there should still be a way to do it.  If they did in fact change the rules to where traders remain after a deed is disbanded, even if not removed from villager list, then they certainly need to add in a function for the original owner of said trader to hand over the trader to another player or to dismiss the trader completely.  Just my thoughts.


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