PvP Discussion

[Iulianx 90]

Hello,

I know this is yet another thread about the same old fighting system however I am trying to shed some new light to the problem. I will not make any concrete suggestion yet since I am waiting for yours first.

 

Here are a few problems that PvP has and need to be adressed. I formed these idea mostly from this thread and my own experience in attempting to PvP. http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/93673-brainstorm-for-pvp/

 

1. I think the most fundamental problem with getting new people in PvP are the high prerequisites before entering the battefield, You basically have to do everything except PvP to prepare for it.

 

2. The combat mechanics are not rewarding by themselves, it depends too much on stats and the knowledge on how to juggle the system.

 

3. Wurm is a Medieval Fantasy world, yet PvP tactics have no solid corespondence with the real World, instead gatehopping/champtroll.

 

4. Battle Outcomes can be very predictable, Why fight if you know you are going to lose or achive nothing if you sacrifice youself.

 

Wurm has an Intense PvP experience. You enter the fight with everything to lose and you can't simply respawn after you are defeated. Fighting is only the end result of a bigger system that involves resource gathering, crafting, politics and planning.  This is in my opinion one of the strongest points that make Wurm different from other games and it should be exploited.

 

So do you think these points are accurate? Is Wurm PvP forever doomed to be unsuccessfull due to its sandbox nature or things can change?

 

 

 

[Lancelot 765]

I do agree Julianx that getting to 'pvp standard' here on Wild /chaos does take some time, and there are other things to take into consideration but overall it's sufficient. I would however like to see a Mount and blade style system, rather than this 'target' system we currently use.

[Kagrenac 812]

#1 takes less than a few weeks on epic,

I don't understand what #2 means, is that you need to know about high ground, standing still, extra? Stuff that effects your CR?

#3 I wouldn't call champ trolls a tactic, they are more of a tool, and gatehopping only happens when it is possible to do so, currently only for people defending their deeds.

[Iulianx 90]

1. Its not about the time it takes to not get 1shoted in combat, Its the absurdity of the way things are, Grinding your stats and shield skill takes more than a few weeks unless you have nothing else to do than watch films while altabbing wurm.

2. I means just that, fighting is not fun, just a few calculations, as Lancelot said, A mount and Blade style combat would make fighting more fun.

3. I tried to be as brief as possible with thse points and i didnt expand enough I guess, Its not only about the tactics, its about how people secure thier deedslike they are atomic bunkers, how raiding and tower capping works, sieges etc...

[Jarosz 189]

Even if they made PVP amazing, the majority of wurm players will still not want to do it.  There is too much time and RL investment into deeds to risk on a PVP server for most of the players drawn to Wurm.

 

Making the system eye catching, intuitive, and revolutionary still won't attract existing players to Wild/Chaos or Epic.

[AlphaWolfen 160]

Well we also need to take into consideration that wurm can use a bigger playerbase. More new players means new options and if for pvp will mean things can start changing.

[Iulianx 90]

Not likely since only 20% of Wurm's playerbase is actually on PvP servers.

[Alec 728]

Not likely since only 20% of Wurm's playerbase is actually on PvP servers.

 

Oh, where do you get those %?

[Iulianx 90]

Maybe its not that accurate but the number is there somewhere, did a quick look on the server status earlier today, about 200 players on Epic and chaos from 1006 or something.

[Klaa 4,872]

Eh there's almost always room for change in anything really.

 

Not that Im against changes to Wurm pvp, small or expansive. Been through quite a few drastic changes already over the years.

[Iulianx 90]

 I just belive that taking baby steps with PvP won't work, because that will never have a chance to dramatically improve it and make it more attractive to new players. While a big change could turn up a result or horribly mess things up and require a rollback.

I wanted to see from the Poll how many people think one way or the other and come up with some feedback on what they consider problematic in PvP.

[vill 248]

I would say combat needs update. Then PvP will be more interesting.

[Alec 728]

 I just belive that taking baby steps with PvP won't work, because that will never have a chance to dramatically improve it and make it more attractive to new players. While a big change could turn up a result or horribly mess things up and require a rollback.

I wanted to see from the Poll how many people think one way or the other and come up with some feedback on what they consider problematic in PvP.

 

If devs spend more time on PvP, we would have 'nuff tears to fill a couple of seas.

 

So I doubt that.

[Iulianx 90]

That's a guarantee, I was here when the fightfix occured, If I remember correctly a lot of people started crying like babies.

[Touchmee 380]

Wurm combat system is awful, therefore pvp 90% of the time is awful unless you do something spectacular.

 

My opinion is:

 

Quick fix:

wipe epic

4 new maps

no kingdoms just deeds and alliances

fix missions etc

no nerfs for dif servers all the same

no artifacts

no dragons or troll kings etc

 

Long term:

new combat system that favors players actual skill instead of account skill

plus above

 

edit: Sort out the pointless god system

Edited March 19, 2014 by Touchmee

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Even if they made PVP amazing, the majority of wurm players will still not want to do it.  There is too much time and RL investment into deeds to risk on a PVP server for most of the players drawn to Wurm.

 

Making the system eye catching, intuitive, and revolutionary still won't attract existing players to Wild/Chaos or Epic.

I wouldn't say it's impossible to achieve a strong PvP community for a game like Wurm. "Rust" has a crafting and base building system just as arduous as Wurm's, and manages to maintain a rather large player base despite having "everything-goes" PvP with no defensive measures for players. The major difference is that Rust is a first-person shooter, which as far as game mechanics go is an extremely solid and easy to get into-combat system that remains rewarding on its own merits regardless of character progression level.

Edited March 19, 2014 by EliasTheCrimson

[Cornchips 3,037]

stahp

[JamesR 45]

If you want to PvP, then go PvP. Grinding up your account in some attempt to reach a certain "PvP level" is a huge waste of time. All you'll accomplish at that point is the same quick death because now you have a decent account, but no experience. If you are just starting out on a PvP server, just go out and learn how to PvP. You are going to die, and die a lot, more than likely. Especially if you try to do this alone. Find another group of PvPers and learn the ropes from them. You'll die less (not much less) and you'll learn in the process. In between fights, craft and act just like you do on any other freedom server.

 

It's really that simple.

 

As for the current system we have now, I like it, but like Klaa said, there is always room for improvement. With that being said, there is still a ton of stuff that can be done to improve your own PvP experience by finding new ways to make the encounters diverse. Just because everyone else uses a certain paradigm doesn't mean you have to.

Edited March 19, 2014 by JamesR

[Iulianx 90]

Quick fix:

 

There are no quick fixes, please cut out this Rolfism right now! 

 

On a more serious note I have some ideas along those lines but what you said isn't enough in my opinion and surely no kingdoms will never happen, its against the wurm lore.

 

Edit: @ JamesR funny enought that is how I would like to see people starting out in wurm PvP, However your view has absolutely nothing to do with the current reality.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Iulianx

[vill 248]

My opinion is:

Quick fix:

wipe epic

 Simple way to kill the game....

[MrGARY 12,421]

Edit: @ JamesR funny enought that is how I would like to see people starting out in wurm PvP, However your view has absolutely nothing to do with the current reality.

 

I'm not sure what server you're playing on, or if you even play at all but.... that is the current reality on Epic at least, I don't know Chaos well anymore.

[Arronicus 641]

Even if they made PVP amazing, the majority of wurm players will still not want to do it.  There is too much time and RL investment into deeds to risk on a PVP server for most of the players drawn to Wurm.

 

Making the system eye catching, intuitive, and revolutionary still won't attract existing players to Wild/Chaos or Epic.

It may not draw existing pve players to the pvp servers, but if they made pvp amazing, eye catching, and intuitive, it would without a doubt draw many new players to Wurm, and the pvp servers, which is most definitely a win for everyone, given that this means more revenue, a larger playerbase, and continued support for Wurm.

I'm not even going to bite touchme's bait on how to destroy Epic.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Arronicus

[Iulianx 90]

I'm not sure what server you're playing on, or if you even play at all but.... that is the current reality on Epic at least, I don't know Chaos well anymore.

 

Please explain to me why it is so?

From what I know, if you PvP you will lose more skills than gain, so doing PvP will not help you progress your character-skill.

 

You join a PvP group then what? You still have to grind stats besides fighting.

[Protunia 735]

Simply not good enough to be that fun for some of us who like real time action based PvP.

 

Basically not even close to as good as some of the better button mashers out there.

 

For sure completely fail compared to any real time combat.

 

But if you like Text and RNG and all that Wurm Wack a Mole is for you......

[Jarosz 189]

It may not draw existing pve players to the pvp servers, but if they made pvp amazing, eye catching, and intuitive, it would without a doubt draw many new players to Wurm, and the pvp servers, which is most definitely a win for everyone, given that this means more revenue, a larger playerbase, and continued support for Wurm.

I'm not even going to bite touchme's bait on how to destroy Epic.

 

How long will it sustain a player base though?  Micro-transactions and PVP are counter-productive...  Sooner or later, people will just want to PVE with the new PVP system and not risk the loss of their real life investment (digital robbery) in Wurm.