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Malena

Villages need to be populated with "decoration" NPCs

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KanePT, I agree and disagree with parts of your post.

 

1- Cosmethic NPCs would not cause any more stress than regular mobs, its 1 simple model, 1 or 2 simple animations, and 1 simple "roam" script.  All the tools are in-game, with the exception of the model.  A cosmethic NPC, that cant fight, should be even lighter on the server than a mob, a guard, or a templar, and equally taxing to the client as a regular mob.    As such, its easy to avoid excecive models using the same animal-ratio system.

 

2- I agree that NPCs with functions would be go against what Wurm apparently aims, the OP is not talking about NPCs for quests or any other function as such, purely cosmethic, like statues.    What people may or may not suggest in the future is only speculative derailing the thread, under that line of though any and all suggestions can be made invalid.

 

3- You are right, although it seems as though the team is trying to revert that image.... at least the newest additions to the team,

 

The most thought provoking point you raise, is the fact that Wurm promotes itself as being mostly player created content.   But as long as NPCs stay as decoration, they become like a new type of fence, a new model of a statue, a new colour of wall.  In the end they will just be another tool for players to work on their creations.This.

This.

 

And to restate something I said earlier, those who do not want npcs, do not have to buy npcs. 

 

If the devs listened to every complaint and monitored every derailing of a thread in the history of Wurm suggestions and ideas, Wurm wouldn't be what it is today.  The community of this game would have buried this game long ago, and killed it off to be nothing but a memory, due to the lack of creativity and innovation.  We have roofs for buildings, multi-story houses, new character animations, new creature models, new transportation styles, new bridges coming soon etc.  We wouldn't have any of these things if the player base had their way about it, it's a simple fact.  Every single one of these ideas whether it be from a player or from a dev, was met with resistance and hostility - fact.  So please when reading through the OPs post and the oncoming comments, remember to be a little more open minded, because if it were up to all of you, we wouldn't have Wurm anymore.

Edited by Slickshot
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Those that don't want gunpowder will not have to craft it.


Those that don't want quests will not have to do them.


Those that don't want to queue from dungeon finder will not have to do it.


Those that don't want end game loot will not have to group for the 40-man content.


Those that didn't want wurm to be super-generic mmo #45897 after years of slippery slopes will not have to play it.


Edited by Elen
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Those that don't want gunpowder will not have to craft it.

Those that don't want quests will not have to do them.

Those that don't want to queue from dungeon finder will not have to do it.

Those that don't want end game loot will not have to group for the 40-man content.

Those that didn't want wurm to be super-generic mmo #45897 after years of slippery slopes will not have to play it.

 

It doesnt really aply to a decoration item, I cant see how disruptive it can be what basically is a statue with an animation ?

The OP is not asking for mission NPCs, the OP is not asking for this cosmethic NPCs to make gunpowder available, etc.

 

Basically, its as if the OP was asking for a new type of fence, and people hate the idea because they dont want instance-based daily quests.

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The slippery slope always starts minor. :unsure:


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KanePT, I agree and disagree with parts of your post.

 

1- Cosmethic NPCs would not cause any more stress than regular mobs, its 1 simple model, 1 or 2 simple animations, and 1 simple "roam" script.  All the tools are in-game, with the exception of the model.  A cosmethic NPC, that cant fight, should be even lighter on the server than a mob, a guard, or a templar, and equally taxing to the client as a regular mob.    As such, its easy to avoid excecive models using the same animal-ratio system.

 

2- I agree that NPCs with functions would be go against what Wurm apparently aims, the OP is not talking about NPCs for quests or any other function as such, purely cosmethic, like statues.    What people may or may not suggest in the future is only speculative derailing the thread, under that line of though any and all suggestions can be made invalid.

 

3- You are right, although it seems as though the team is trying to revert that image.... at least the newest additions to the team,

 

The most thought provoking point you raise, is the fact that Wurm promotes itself as being mostly player created content.   But as long as NPCs stay as decoration, they become like a new type of fence, a new model of a statue, a new colour of wall.  In the end they will just be another tool for players to work on their creations.

1- We have a cap on regular mobs for something, adding NPCs would add more strain in two ways, first it adds a third "population" of mobs, which would probably eat away at the creature cap, second since they'd be populating deeds, there's no real cap to their number, thus if they would share the creature cap, within a relatively short time frame, we'd be in a way worse problem creature wise than the most animal hoarder intensive server.

Even if the cap is separated, it still adds a potentially unlimited ammount of added effort on the servers, which aren't that great either way.

If there wasn't a clear limit to how many "NPCs" (read creatures) a server can handle, this would probably not be that big of a problem, and in fact that's the biggest limiter, not the player-made content, but the technical limitations.

You forgot the other point on my point, which is the reason why there's object limits per tile and why there's a animal ratio on deed. This was all originated from player complaints of their FPS dropping near a hors-breeder's deed. Now if that happens on a deed with many creatures, imagine deeds populated with NPCs, plus animals, plus guards.

Thirdly comparing 1-5 guards per 25 tile radius + 1 templar for idk how many tiles on a deed is absurd when compared to POPULATING every deed with NPCs. Its not adding one or two, its about having a population of NPCs in a deed. That's not easily achieved with just 5 NPCs per 25 tile radius. If it was, then tadaa, no new additions required, just build a guard tower.

 

2- Its not derayling the thread, its human nature. Its always like this people always want more. So speculation or not, that's the next logical step on the progression of the game if this was instituted, so its pertinent to this thread, you may not like it, but it is. And just because i can show forethought and use my brain for something other than wishful thinking (something not apparent on your first point) , doesn't mean i'm less right.

 

 

This.

 

And to restate something I said earlier, those who do not want npcs, do not have to buy npcs. 

 

If the devs listened to every complaint and monitored every derailing of a thread in the history of Wurm suggestions and ideas, Wurm wouldn't be what it is today.  The community of this game would have buried this game long ago, and killed it off to be nothing but a memory, due to the lack of creativity and innovation.  We have roofs for buildings, multi-story houses, new character animations, new creature models, new transportation styles, new bridges coming soon etc.  We wouldn't have any of these things if the player base had their way about it, it's a simple fact.  Every single one of these ideas whether it be from a player or from a dev, was met with resistance and hostility - fact.  So please when reading through the OPs post and the oncoming comments, remember to be a little more open minded, because if it were up to all of you, we wouldn't have Wurm anymore.

By your logic, those that WANT NPCs can go play WoW. There you go. Fixed that for you.

And no, i've been playing wurm for over 4 years now, and never once anyone complained it would be bad to have multi-story houses, bridges is a promiss since before i started playing, if you can show a single instance of where someone tried to shoot down that proposal with logic, facts and not random trollery, please quote that. Same for new characters, creature models (ok some didn't like the spiders, hence the phobia mode), there wasn't a single anti-wagon post that i can think of. Sure there's a lot of controversial crap going on in wurm, but usually its because the addition of those controversial features made a profound change that either eliminated the need for a certain niche (i can remember me and others disliking level because it eliminated the need for people who actually knew how to do proper flatraise) or simply nerf or imbalance pre-existing conditions (farm nerf, animal ratio, etc.). I really can't think of a single new addition that was actually met with hostility (not saying one didn't exist, just can't think of it atm.), even crates which removed most utility for rafts (killing buisness for raft makers) were met with joy.

Also, before stating generic biased and uninformed slur, try to thing a bit, and actually ascertain the truth in what you're saying.

 

It doesnt really aply to a decoration item, I cant see how disruptive it can be what basically is a statue with an animation ?

The OP is not asking for mission NPCs, the OP is not asking for this cosmethic NPCs to make gunpowder available, etc.

 

Basically, its as if the OP was asking for a new type of fence, and people hate the idea because they dont want instance-based daily quests.

Fences don't require extra server load to track position, number, names, health, etc. Nor do they require extra CPU overhead to render animations. Fences are static. If you want statues, you can populate the deed with statues. People are selling the very life-like hota ones.

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The slippery slope always starts minor. :unsure:

I have to say, Elen is dead right here. Things always start with something small, and escalate into something nobody asked for, or wanted.

With that being said, I'm not against Npc's, more fantasy, PLAYER made quest. (Put a note on a billboard you made, requiring 250 logs of 30ql, player could get these for you and receive X award) ect. As long as it stays mostly wurm themed.

For me, the game would be a LOT more fun if my priest was actually able to be a full-spell fighter and never, ever, need a sword. Have magic be useable for full combat, and while were at it, let archery be used completely instead of melee also.

But I don't want to see it become completely overkill, just "enough"

I like this idea, and support it, but this will never make it into the game, sadly the game has to many extreme realist. ;) which is all fine - as long as they don't make ruin fun features for realism.

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Fences don't require extra server load to track position, number, names, health, etc. Nor do they require extra CPU overhead to render animations. Fences are static. If you want statues, you can populate the deed with statues. People are selling the very life-like hota ones.

 

A simple model of an NPC would cause as much stress to the system as a cow or a spider, even less since it wouldnt not require stats, life, or fight AI, only the average random walking script every other regular mob has.   There is no need for a third denomination of mobs to hold them, they can be lumped in with the regular neutral mobs.

 

You keep bringing up the server stress as an issue, but it is just not true.  If the devs would make a ridiculously heavy model, and allowed unrestricted numbers of NPC then yes.   If the models are in line with current mobs, regarding polygons, textures and animations, and they are tied to the already existing animal Ratio, then the change from having 10 horses to having 10 NPCs should be unnoticeable. (not to mention they would produce less stress on the server than a regular mob, since interaction would be even more limited).

 

I have no idea why you opose a cosmethic change so vehemently, since your reasons for oposing the sugestion doesnt pertain the OP.

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A simple model of an NPC would cause as much stress to the system as a cow or a spider, even less since it wouldnt not require stats, life, or fight AI, only the average random walking script every other regular mob has.   There is no need for a third denomination of mobs to hold them, they can be lumped in with the regular neutral mobs.

 

You keep bringing up the server stress as an issue, but it is just not true.  If the devs would make a ridiculously heavy model, and allowed unrestricted numbers of NPC then yes.   If the models are in line with current mobs, regarding polygons, textures and animations, and they are tied to the already existing animal Ratio, then the change from having 10 horses to having 10 NPCs should be unnoticeable. (not to mention they would produce less stress on the server than a regular mob, since interaction would be even more limited).

 

I have no idea why you opose a cosmethic change so vehemently, since your reasons for oposing the sugestion doesnt pertain the OP.

Did you even read my post?

Its not a cosmetic change... If you add more NPCs to the current animal caps, then you'll HAVE LESS ANIMALS.

Its easy man not rocket science...

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Did you even read my post?

Its not a cosmetic change... If you add more NPCs to the current animal caps, then you'll HAVE LESS ANIMALS.

Its easy man not rocket science...

 

Yes, but  why do you care if instead of having 20 penned cavebugs in my deed I have 10 cavebugs and 10 NPCs walking around?

 

The systems for controlling mobs hoarding are not being discussed, you are arguing about a complete diferent topic.

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Well the y could go as a money sink item, a npc contract could cost 10s no drain back and be counted towards village population.


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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, March 24, 2014 - Staff bashing
Hidden by sunsvortex, March 24, 2014 - Staff bashing

All I see is a board moderator, acting like a presumptuous tool, a Kane making short work of an informed post simply because of TL;DR, and a Rathgar using solid programming examples to actually back up his argument.  Everything negative has been the same opinion of hogwash, which if I can summarize goes like this;  "this won't work because I don't like it, qqqqqqq; this won't work because 'insert derail thread with ridiculous speculations based off of personal opinions not grounded in any facts contained in Wurm history;."  Seriously haters, it's too simple-minded now, please stop.

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Posted · Hidden by sunsvortex, March 24, 2014 - Cleanup
Hidden by sunsvortex, March 24, 2014 - Cleanup

All I see is a board moderator, acting like a presumptuous tool, a Kane making short work of an informed post simply because of TL;DR, and a Rathgar using solid programming examples to actually back up his argument.  Everything negative has been the same opinion of hogwash, which if I can summarize goes like this;  "this won't work because I don't like it, qqqqqqq; this won't work because 'insert derail thread with ridiculous speculations based off of personal opinions not grounded in any facts contained in Wurm history;."  Seriously haters, it's too simple-minded now, please stop.

1- I actually read the posts.

2- Rathgar solid programming examples? Yeah, ok. We'll go with that.

3- Everything i posted is based on facts, and my 4+ years of wurm "history". Your posts are based on the "everybody but me is speculating" premiss. So yeah, go for that.

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It would be interesting! +1 :)


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1- I actually read the posts.

2- Rathgar solid programming examples? Yeah, ok. We'll go with that.

3- Everything i posted is based on facts, and my 4+ years of wurm "history". Your posts are based on the "everybody but me is speculating" premiss. So yeah, go for that.

You seemed to have skipped over the part where in the complete history of Wurm, there hasn't been a single change to this game that people didn't ###### and complain about over and over again.  The devs continued with the changes, people sucked it up and got over it, and the game is great!  Argue that fact into the dirt if you'd like, facts are facts.  That's what many years of Wurm history would show you, had you paid attention.

Edited by Slickshot

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-1 

 

Makes me feel like Will Smith in I am Legend...

 

fred_i_am_legend_poster_by_sleepadf982-d

 

 

I was against it till this post, now I am all for it. Provided the npc's are named after the Saladfingers puppets.

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Wow, I sure did not expect this amount of debate over something so "innocent" hehe.


 


I have a suggestion guys: how about we scope down this conversation to something as simple as this: Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not? It's really that simple. 


 


As players, it's not your job (or your place really) to worry about technicalities - give the devs the benefit of the doubt in what miracle work they are capable of and leave it up to them to decide if something is not doable technically.


 


As a game developer myself, I can tell you that if we see a player come up with a cool idea that does not endanger the balance, flow or vision of the game... and if we see this asked for over and over (and I can tell you there are tons of threads asking for NPCs) and we ourselves agree that it's cool - we will try and figure out a way for it to work, even if the current engine does not directly support it. Sometimes it's possible, sometimes it's not. But really, this is not our (player's) headache, it's theirs. 


 


*grunts*


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Wow, I sure did not expect this amount of debate over something so "innocent" hehe.

 

I have a suggestion guys: how about we scope down this conversation to something as simple as this: Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not? It's really that simple. 

 

As players, it's not your job (or your place really) to worry about technicalities - give the devs the benefit of the doubt in what miracle work they are capable of and leave it up to them to decide if something is not doable technically.

 

As a game developer myself, I can tell you that if we see a player come up with a cool idea that does not endanger the balance, flow or vision of the game... and if we see this asked for over and over (and I can tell you there are tons of threads asking for NPCs) and we ourselves agree that it's cool - we will try and figure out a way for it to work, even if the current engine does not directly support it. Sometimes it's possible, sometimes it's not. But really, this is not our (player's) headache, it's theirs. 

 

*grunts*

 

 

Its a sandbox, choice is good. If people want pretend npc's in their village I personally have nothing against that their deed their choice. However, from a gameplay mechanic a lot of deeds do not recruit, again your deed your choice. However, this is an MMO, as a game that means interaction with other players. Lots of newbies need homes, people feel lonely, seems to me the answer is already here in the game without the addition.

 

However, its a sandbox and choice is good so if its popular sure why not.

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I have a suggestion guys: how about we scope down this conversation to something as simple as this: Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not?

Nope.

Edited by EliasTheCrimson
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You seemed to have skipped over the part where in the complete history of Wurm, there hasn't been a single change to this game that people didn't ###### and complain about over and over again.  The devs continued with the changes, people sucked it up and got over it, and the game is great!  Argue that fact into the dirt if you'd like, facts are facts.  That's what many years of Wurm history would show you, had you paid attention.

And you again seemed to skip over the part where i listed lots of changes where there was no significant blowback. (like most of the ones you had listed before).

Usually only stuff that has no sense, or nerfs stuff, or breaks the game usually get massive blowback.

 

Wow, I sure did not expect this amount of debate over something so "innocent" hehe.

 

I have a suggestion guys: how about we scope down this conversation to something as simple as this: Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not? It's really that simple. 

 

As players, it's not your job (or your place really) to worry about technicalities - give the devs the benefit of the doubt in what miracle work they are capable of and leave it up to them to decide if something is not doable technically.

 

As a game developer myself, I can tell you that if we see a player come up with a cool idea that does not endanger the balance, flow or vision of the game... and if we see this asked for over and over (and I can tell you there are tons of threads asking for NPCs) and we ourselves agree that it's cool - we will try and figure out a way for it to work, even if the current engine does not directly support it. Sometimes it's possible, sometimes it's not. But really, this is not our (player's) headache, it's theirs. 

 

*grunts*

No, and has a player who already had his gameplay severely limited because of technical issues (read: freaking deed animal ration) i do worry about tehcnical issues, because i don't want to have even less horses because you want to have useless drones roaming your deed, simple as that.

Not to mention that the game is already slow, and laggy at its best, even without this. So yeah, i do find it that the technical factors keep limiting my enjoyability of the game, so as a player i do concern myself with those.

 

Like Tineen said, if your deed is feeling empty, recruit a few noobs.

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Npc's I can think of that can work, maybe.


 


Beggar,  Karma to giver and maybe some iron to owner.


 


Messenger,  to deliver messages (emotes) just for fun.


 


Musician, plays a tune at random or when you want.


 


Servant, can hold food/drink, acts like a container.


 


Jester,  probably annoying as hell :)


 


Guards (full plate) as a gate with halberds crossed , acts just like a gate and you can attach a gate lock on em :)


 


Bridge guard , you need to pay to cross. :/  eh maybe not


 


and probably some more.

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Npc's I can think of that can work, maybe.

 

Beggar,  Karma to giver and maybe some iron to owner.

 

Messenger,  to deliver messages (emotes) just for fun.

 

Musician, plays a tune at random or when you want.

 

Servant, can hold food/drink, acts like a container.

 

Jester,  probably annoying as hell :)

 

Guards (full plate) as a gate with halberds crossed , acts just like a gate and you can attach a gate lock on em :)

 

Bridge guard , you need to pay to cross. :/  eh maybe not

 

and probably some more.

Thank you so much Wox for constructive creativity and feedback!  These ideas are pretty awesome.

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I have a suggestion guys: how about we scope down this conversation to something as simple as this: Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not? It's really that simple. 

 

Nope.

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 Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not?

 

 

Nope.

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I have a suggestion guys: how about we scope down this conversation to something as simple as this: Do you see value in decorational NPCs or do you not? It's really that simple.

Yes I like eye candy and the game can make some money off it.

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