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Etherdrifter

Data For GMS

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All tiles currently have data as to who passed over them and when for tracking.

I am not sure how long this information lasts.  I propose a second set of data be added to keep a log of the last 15 people to pass over a tile (ignored npcs stores name and time), lasts forever until overwritten.

I also propose that every edge tile has an extra bit of data kept, when the last wall on it was destroyed (a date) and possibly what destroyed it (though this is not necessarily needed).  (Note, this could also hold the name of the person who constructed a wall if a wall is present!)

This would aid in protecting enclosures and also identifying if a player or npc destroyed an enclosure wall.

How does this work?  Person A breaks into person B's enclosure.  Person B calls a GM, a GM turns up and looks at the tiles next to the broken fence, looks at who has been in/out and looks at the name/time and compares it to the time of the fence destruction.  A simple comparison that could easily identify a thief and (also) give solid evidence as to the original owner of the enclosure (as they will always have an earlier datestamp than the thief).

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with enclosures being thought of being removed (soonâ„¢) not sure how much it would help,  Though I'd say they already have this......and much more advanced.


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Doesnt last nearly long enough as far as Tracking is concerned. Personally the tracking system needs a major overhaul and rethinking.


 


Although tracking isnt a perfect means of indicating who destroyed a fence persay. It only indicates such-and-such was within a certain tile radius during this time period. Similar to blood evidence in RL courts.


Edited by Klaa

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 Though I'd say they already have... much more advanced.

In most games there's an event log of sorts that gms or admins would be able to see, that would clearly show who broke the wall.

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Its difficult to say what tools exactly GMs have at their disposal, let alone more detailed info like what each rank can do. What exactly do Devs log, and so on.


 


In fact revealing what Wurm GMs have in their toolbox is kinda against the rules governing the GMs.


 


One can certainly speculate such logs exist, or ponder what level of GM the information is restricted to. Good luck getting verification though.


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How about we just get rid of the enclosure rule? All it does is persuade players to opt out of the safeties that are provided with a deed.

 

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They can see actions performed against a wall if a player did it.

Not sure of the timeframe that it is saved to though.

Edited by alaskanbob

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How about we just get rid of the enclosure rule? All it does is persuade players to opt out of the safeties that are provided with a deed.

 

 

The safety of a deed or writ is flawed. Anyone can walk into your writ or deed if you don't have it locked, fenced in, guarded by dragons, or they have access and lock certain things up. Sure, you should have it locked but who would think to lock stuff up in their own houses to protect it, particularly on a deed. You either have to find who put you on lockdown and hope they will remove them or make locks until you can make a pick and then grind that until you can unlock it. That being said, it would be really nice to be able to add friends to deed permissions in the same way as you add them to a writ, cart, boat, etc. I would like to handpick who has access to anything rather than a group policy. 

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How about we just get rid of the enclosure rule? All it does is persuade players to opt out of the safeties that are provided with a deed.

 

 

And dissuades others from walking off with your stuff.

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Not if you enclose your deed.

 

Yes, it is. We play on Freedom, not Chaos. A deed is paid protection here. An enclosure is rule enforced protection here. People seem to want PvP rules when it comes to stealing and breaking and taking but PvE protection when it comes to being held accountable for it. I can't hunt you down and kill you for it so you should not be allowed to even do it. I also should not have to build Ft. Knox to keep you out of it and out of what is in it. I think that is what Etherdrifter is driving at and people seem very eager to bash at him over it in every post he makes. If Freedom is to be Semi-Chaos, then maybe the servers should be renamed to reflect that.

Edited by Audrel
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-1

I'm over reading these enclosure things. Ban enclosures I say.
Plant deeds instead :)

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i don't see enclosures being band  :P  despite me liking the idea of there removal.


 


The way some players build there enclosure is rather disturbing.  Particularly when the enclosure takes up 1/2 of the server (slight embellishment)


 


To the OP:  lets say you log on, send a support ticket in for a wall that has been bashed only to find out it was a troll and some guy comes after to loot what looks like an abandoned area how will this work then....


 


I have seen the performance of log block in minecraft and it was not 100% left a lot of discretion up to mods / admins, i would hate to see any such game tools implemented in wurm, there flawed and abusable.


 


I have to go with    -1   to tools like this for gm's in general.   I would rather see current deed systems have some time spent on code than a new anti grief tool developed for gms.

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-1

I'm over reading these enclosure things. Ban enclosures I say.

Plant deeds instead :)

 

While you are sleeping one night dreaming of your safe and secure planted deed with its awesome protections and banned enclosures, someone will come along and wake you up to some very lacking security. Keep grinding locksmithing. You will need it one day.

EDIT: Legal enclosures is just a pretty pipedream anyway. Prove the decay level of a nonexistent fence when it rots away very quickly, unnaturally quick. 

Edited by Audrel

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Yes, it is. We play on Freedom, not Chaos. A deed is paid protection here. An enclosure is rule enforced protection here. People seem to want PvP rules when it comes to stealing and breaking and taking but PvE protection when it comes to being held accountable for it. I can't hunt you down and kill you for it so you should not be allowed to even do it. I also should not have to build Ft. Knox to keep you out of it and out of what is in it. I think that is what Etherdrifter is driving at and people seem very eager to bash at him over it in every post he makes. If Freedom is to be Semi-Chaos, then maybe the servers should be renamed to reflect that.

+1 to this comment.  I agree, why can other players come into your deed on player versus ENVIRONMENT (not player vs player) area and even your house and lock your fsb and bsb?  Why can other players bash fences of legal enclosures?  Why can they lock you inside your own legal enclosure by locking the gates behind you, stealing all your stuff from your bsb right in front of your eyes, and then run off with it?  Why not set fsb and bsb as NON lockable on deed?  (only deed owner can do this, or manage roles for your friends to do this too).  Or, even better, make them like doors, in houses.  Where you can set permissions of who opens them.  I do not understand why this is so hard to understand, we play pve, not pvp.

 

Also everyone who says deed it or lose it is completely losing sight of the fact that Wurm sells itself as partly free to play.  If we take away all protection from free playing players, Wurm is no longer free to play.  I am wondering how we can say it is free to play if we do not offer significant protection to legal enclosures, not just say "oh well it is decay" or "oh well it is a troll" when fences disappear without reason overnight.  I agree, trolls can bash fences, but in my experience I have seen many players take a maul or shod to fences on legal enclosures, to hasten decay, and what do we have to protect those people's stuff inside those enclosures?

Edited by Pinky

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Let them be, Pinky.  We'll see them here in a few weeks when it happens to them and no one shows them sympathy.


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with enclosures being thought of being removed (soonâ„¢) not sure how much it would help,  Though I'd say they already have this......and much more advanced.

 

May I ask what is this new information? The Legal Enclosure Rule being removed? Do you have a link for this perhaps? This is the first I have heard of such a possibility.

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May I ask what is this new information? The Legal Enclosure Rule being removed? Do you have a link for this perhaps? This is the first I have heard of such a possibility.

I wouldn't say it's by any means being officially thought about, but if you've kept up with - http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/93345-feedback-request-on-fence-stuff/page-20#entry977686 - it's been mentioned the enclosure rule could possibly be done away with (I believe only if these were added, but possibly otherwise to(?) )

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Thanks Druidnature. I had not read through all the pages of that thread.


Edited by Kyrmius

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Let's just remove the enclosure rule instead. I always thought the standard around here was "If you can do it, a GM will not do it for you" - this can be seen by the fact that they don't collapse mines anymore, they expect you to get a shaker orb or hire a mag priest. Why are walls any different when you could just be paying for a deed and you wouldn't have had the problem in the first place?


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I can't pay for a deed... I can afford premium, but not a deed anylonger, not with the US - Euro exchange rate and the price hikes. This coming month I will be premium again after getting thru another real life winter and my heating bills, but I will never own a deed again. It will be so good to use all my skills again however.


 


How many other Players are in the same situation now as I am (after the price hikes). How many can no longer afford a deed?


 


Removing the Legal Enclosure rule removes any reason for me to ever own a home in Wurm again. Without the legal enclosure rule any place I build will be Griefer fodder.


 


So why go premium at all? If I can't afford premium and a deed, like I used to be able to do, what's the point?

Edited by Kyrmius

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Let's just remove the enclosure rule instead. I always thought the standard around here was "If you can do it, a GM will not do it for you" - this can be seen by the fact that they don't collapse mines anymore, they expect you to get a shaker orb or hire a mag priest. Why are walls any different when you could just be paying for a deed and you wouldn't have had the problem in the first place?

 

Because Wurm advertises as Free to Play. They are to 20 skill level with minimal protection. If you remove the protection of legal enclosures, Wurm is no longer Free to Play. It becomes Free to have your stuff stolen. No one is going to try it out and stay to pay if they get robbed every day during their trial. There has to be some kind of minimum protection or there can be no free.

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I can't pay for a deed... I can afford premium, but not a deed anylonger, not with the US - Euro exchange rate and the price hikes. This coming month I will be premium again after getting thru another real life winter and my heating bills, but I will never own a deed again. It will be so good to use all my skills again however.

How many other Players are in the same situation now as I am (after the price hikes). How many can no longer afford a deed?

Removing the Legal Enclosure rule removes any reason for me to ever own a home in Wurm again. Without the legal enclosure rule any place I build will be Griefer fodder.

So why go premium at all? If I can't afford premium and a deed, like I used to be able to do, what's the point?

Could try living on someone's deed, I know I've still un-used 90% of my 55x77 deed, I'm sure some people wouldn't mind having villagers that do what ever they want. Usually it's good to have someone you like in your deed, even if they do there own thing. ;)

Enclosures though Imo do need a look at, remove them? No. But rules should be adjusted a bit so someone can't have a 100x100 enclosure. (And for those saying it takes a lot to upkeep these, it doesn't take THAT much. At least with high skills, you may spend 2-3 days making / repairing it. But it'll last a good year if done correctly without repairing again.

That, is a bit crazy. But here's the problem for myself, and proves I'm a hypocrit here...

I think people SHOULD be able to have that much land, maybe not exactly for free, but that's not for me to say, the problem is though, when they do that it takes up so much room. And in most cases, extremely good areas. :(

Overall, I'd be fine with it if we had more land, I think players should have as much room as they "want" not what one person or the next says they "only need x much" because your "big" deed/enclosure may be 30x30.... Where my "minimum" is 60x60. And my "would like" is around 80x100.

Sadly, I can't find the land for that, or afford that though >:/. I'll have to live with my 58x52-ish and 55x77.

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See, now a max size for legal off-deed enclosure, beyond which you have to build a new one x tiles away for protection to hold, that makes proper amounts of sense.  However said rule would have to have its exception for perimeter, SPECIALLY if the gatehouse is on-deed.


Edited by Mordraug

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