Sorcery: Evocator Info

[Kagrenac 812]

Speaking of... it almost seemed from a comment Rolf made that some titles come from having multiple abilities in combination. Probably reading too much into it though.

That is true.

[Klaa 4,872]

That is true.

Ah nice. What combination titles have you seen so far? Im only aware of the two examples Rolf seemed to give: Arch Mage and Demon Queen? Keep thinking Witch King or Horned King too; though, thats probably from reading the Black Cauldron books to a nephew.

 

Sure but you suggested revealing the buffs/debuffs and just not mentioning names of who has them, since all of them are known already without knowing which tome they relate to im assuming you wish to go that step further which is just as good as naming names

An off-the-top-of-my-head example of one possible means of obscuring identities without obscuring information that might lead to fruitful discussion. Fortunately, looking for holes is indication of some thought on the matter.

Although personally its ultimately pointless. Someone always talks, and word gets around (especially for those around so long to have good friends and acquaintances spread across kingdoms and clusters ). Granted third hand info is always questionable; however, testing and verifying is easy enough.

[Suntzu 644]

Eh I had plenty of people tell me how horrible that cherry was. And some lieing to me about it. I bought it because it was unique and not to pay to win. And so I can put solid info out to the community on this subject. Everyone knows I like sharing game info and think the top few people should not hold the info to themselves. Same thing I did when I found out how dragons worked and the trader info thread that educated hundreds of people on the system.

If I wanted to pay to win I could throw retarded money at someones top account and probably get it.

Regardless of how I got it the facts remain it is horribly unbalanced.

 

I remember a post postes made about an alternative sorcery system awhile back I thought was interesting. The current system is lacking in so many

ways.

 

Interesting and balanced features are a selling point of games. Sorcery could be for wurm but it isn't.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Suntzu

[Gregory 573]

System definately needs an overhaul my suggestions would be:

Drop all buffs/debuffs to 10% or remove the debuffs altogether

Remove staff requirement to cast (give a cast bonus to using one however)

Rework the useless spells (add more utility/environmental ones (working group?)

Remove the name of the tome given from twitter

Allow the title to be turned off and on

It really all comes down to the debuffs though in PvP if they where removed or not made available you would get alot more discussions happening.

Cheers

P.s remove the debuffs and I'll quite happily share info on the (non shared) spells I've got, cast timers, karma costs, effects, range etc.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Gregory

[Kagrenac 812]

I don't get why the debuffs need to be removed for you to share spell info, that is separate from the effects of a spell/title.

 

Sorcerer has fireball, which is 1k karma 15s cast, but that has nothing to do with its buffs/debuffs, and really you could just say x spell exists, with effects y.

[ErikN 452]

Well it depends on the approach we take for balancing things. 
Either we balance the spell together with the buff/debuff or we ignore the spells existence when balancing the buffs/debuffs.

Nothing higher then 10% sounds fine too me for most of them, but the physical ones might need to go even lower, they do affect more then one damage type.
 

[Postes 5,282]

10% is very generous and not game breaking for anyone or large enough that it's going totally change a fight, or get a player killed too fast.  It should really be about the spells in my opinion.  

 

 

My spell is Continuum, which was balance out pretty early.  

Edited February 24, 2014 by Postes

[Gregory 573]

Agree all depends on the approach taken and if done right...I'd also take a look at the drop ratio on the items as well.

Some scenario's can last several months and the reward is 3 charges or even nothing. And some scenario's can last less than a week or two and the reward is still 3 charges (that's 3 players now with the new spell.)

Why not start with always 1 charge as a base reward, then either depending on the duration or number of "Source" items gathered additional charges could be rewarded (same item.)

Would make more sense to me to reward the hard work put in by kingdoms and counteract the pure luck to a degree when all the required Valrei items spawn on top of a god.

The Valrei/Sorcery system is a great idea and I think works really well to motivate people to log in/go off deed and pull a kingdom together by working towards a goal but it all needs some love.

Cheers

[Druidnature 1,118]

"Dreams of archery and Mage-fireballs being do-able one day to do besides boring melee"

Ahh... If only...

Edit: Wtf auto checker??? Lol

Edited February 25, 2014 by Druidnature

[Postes 5,282]

The other issue I had with sorcery is the prizes are limited to a single person of hundreds.  Imagine this game on a larger scale you're giving out 1 prize to a single person of thousands weekly-monthly?  Many kingdoms have cliques and different groups especially Home + Elevation, often these two are too unified, and have different systems and leaders.  You may do a ton of work on Elevation doing missions, going to Home servers for them, die trying, and in the end the prize may go to some guy who happened to kill 1 cow during some slay 40 cow mission, and he shares it with his village.  

 

Scenario two is PMKs base themselves off same God, but regardless their God winning it may go to the technically "enemy" kingdom because they share a God.

 

 

 

In my opinion it'd be smarter that the God gives out 3 tomes, each with 1 charge, to 3 random people.  

[merce 135]

The new valrei system is just not tought out, item should always go to top 3 scenario points and split the charges to all 3 of them.

The demigod system... I don't even know what they Did with that one, giving out free. Buffs+spells and ensuring a safe trip to god status? Sounds extremely balanced Rolf!

And the fact that jenn-kellon got 2 gods instead of 1 gives them double the chance to win a scenario, Whoever implemented These ideas from Rolfs team should look to the community for balancing issues, obviously the dev team did not focus on that part.

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Valrei is the worst part of epic, all things that has to do with valrei are bugged as hell, its a bloody joke and make ppl quit. Think about it

[ErikN 452]

Continuum is a rather nice spell, not something you would cast in the heat of battle due to the cast time, but shortly before it. The cost is not too high, but the spell is of a mid level difficulty compared to the rest of them, the cool down feels to me like it's rather short, when compared to other defensive spells.

Stoneskin on the other hand is a far more limited spell, while the effect of the spell would be nice as an "OMG I'm about to die" spell that you would use when you want to retreat. It's casting time will probably ensure that you die when trying to cast it. It has the same difficulty as Continuum, slightly lower cost and a lot longer cool down. 

 

I started to compile a list of all the spells in a spreadsheet yesterday just so that it would be easier to get a good overview of all of them, and I must say Karma Bolt is not looking very good in comparison to other damage dealing spells.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

I am a sorcerer myself and would like to see some changes.

10% damage reduction on slash/crush or pierce

5% overall damage reduction.

Would be actually usefull and far from overpowered. If you put the buffs low you can easy leave the debuffs away.

On the other hand, spells need some rework, specially damage dealing ones are bad.

I did like to see some, slow your enemies for 20%, reduce healing, reduce armour rating.......

[Alden 209]

I am a sorcerer myself and would like to see some changes.

10% damage reduction on slash/crush or pierce

5% overall damage reduction.

Would be actually usefull and far from overpowered. If you put the buffs low you can easy leave the debuffs away.

On the other hand, spells need some rework, specially damage dealing ones are bad.

I did like to see some, slow your enemies for 20%, reduce healing, reduce armour rating.......

Hallucination spells, make allies look like enemies, make enemies look like pot plants.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Alden

[vill 248]

Why not start with always 1 charge as a base reward, then either depending on the duration or number of "Source" items gathered additional charges could be rewarded (same item.)

 

Anyway you will not have so many StarGems to use it for daily pvp ;-)

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Why do we even have spells when the entire way to obtain them is extremely bugged?

Why not fix the entire mission stuff, god movement and all those nonsense first before implementing spells and buffs/debuffs?

[merce 135]

Don't remove the weaknesses... then it'll be a game of "who can get the most" especially now when I believe either inventor or versai made a pie chart of how many missions was done for each god, mag had almost 2x if not more missions done than fo/vyn, lib had a bit more or roughly the same than fo/vyn, yet fo and vyn has won many more scenarios the past few months..

 

It is good that the weaknesses are severe, like 200% more damage to burns or 200% more damage to acid, because then you can counter it.

[Zwei 210]

I don't think you notice how easy it is in theory to kill someone with a 200% damage to burn debuff. That would be a nicely place lava pillar would mean a near instant death, and for the lag wurm has now. You can be 3 tiles off the pillar, and still get hit. If fireheart, and firebrand also take some of this damage; why even try to pvp anymore, since MR is the only one that really attempts to pvp with other kingdoms, and Mag is the fire-related god.

[merce 135]

I don't think you notice how easy it is in theory to kill someone with a 200% damage to burn debuff. That would be a nicely place lava pillar would mean a near instant death, and for the lag wurm has now. You can be 3 tiles off the pillar, and still get hit. If fireheart, and firebrand also take some of this damage; why even try to pvp anymore, since MR is the only one that really attempts to pvp with other kingdoms, and Mag is the fire-related god.

And that is one of the risks that comes with the buffs. Especially since the whole valrei system is not well tought out and players who shouldn't have these buffs have them.

[Postes 5,282]

Continuum is a rather nice spell, not something you would cast in the heat of battle due to the cast time, but shortly before it. The cost is not too high, but the spell is of a mid level difficulty compared to the rest of them, the cool down feels to me like it's rather short, when compared to other defensive spells.

Stoneskin on the other hand is a far more limited spell, while the effect of the spell would be nice as an "OMG I'm about to die" spell that you would use when you want to retreat. It's casting time will probably ensure that you die when trying to cast it. It has the same difficulty as Continuum, slightly lower cost and a lot longer cool down. 

 

I started to compile a list of all the spells in a spreadsheet yesterday just so that it would be easier to get a good overview of all of them, and I must say Karma Bolt is not looking very good in comparison to other damage dealing spells.

 

Issue with Continuum is of all the sorcerer spells I think it's only one that has a random power, meaning like you can get 10 seconds or 7 minutes, it's so random.  More often than not to the average cast is about <30 seconds.  We never get a chance to use it in PvP because we can't ever get a cast higher than literally 1 minute on a regular average basis.  

 

There's no skill to grind either to get better casts like channeling with regular spells.  

Edited February 25, 2014 by Postes

[merce 135]

Issue with Continuum is of all the sorcerer spells I think it's only one that has a random power, meaning like you can get 10 seconds or 7 minutes, it's so random.  More often than not to the average cast is about <30 seconds.  We never get a chance to use it in PvP because we can't ever get a cast higher than literally 1 minute on a regular average basis.  

 

There's no skill to grind either to get better casts like channeling with regular spells.  

every spell has a random power, the wall one has a random amount of ql, all direct/aoe target spells has a random extra damage.

[Suntzu 644]

Don't remove the weaknesses... then it'll be a game of "who can get the most" especially now when I believe either inventor or versai made a pie chart of how many missions was done for each god, mag had almost 2x if not more missions done than fo/vyn, lib had a bit more or roughly the same than fo/vyn, yet fo and vyn has won many more scenarios the past few months..

 

It is good that the weaknesses are severe, like 200% more damage to burns or 200% more damage to acid, because then you can counter it.

 

All to cast a spell for 1000 karma and an 8 dmg wound with a 50s scepter.... OOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[Postes 5,282]

For buff ones I'm saying.  Other buffs are static, Continuum is a random time.  I just want to know if there's a skill to grind to get better casts, because Continuum really seems extremely hard just to get over 1 minute.  

Edited February 25, 2014 by Postes

[Suntzu 644]

Vaque references to mind stats, I have over 40 so if it is helping my spell I cant tell.