Sorcery: Evocator Info

[JockII 338]

No one uses poison in pvp... Well you might get some weirdo trying it once a year tbh.

 

It wont matter with my powerful debuff and useless spell I wont see much action in the field.

 

I have a death wish but its not that much of a death wish.

 

The spell is the nothing usefull in pvp to balance such a nasty debuff.

fungas trap buff..

[JockII 338]

Yeah pretty sure fungus trap does poison damage. that be a strong lib priest.

[Ganken 60]

Seems a tad bit ridiculous. I hope that after rebalancing you will fix the bugs that people got. It looks randomized, which is probably a bad idea.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Ganken

[Klaa 4,872]

On the other hand, I havent really heard of anything being grossly overpowered... yet. Someone might just be really good at keeping things up their sleeves.

[Suntzu 644]

More like grossly underpowered. In my situation at least the trade off is such a gimp the spell is laughable.

[JockII 338]

More like grossly underpowered. In my situation at least the trade off is such a gimp the spell is laughabl

honestly it's part of the risk. just like everything else in this game. seems like your just upset that you didn't suddenly get an i win button instead you got a balanced power. seems fine to me, next time reconsider taking big risks.

Edited February 21, 2014 by JockII

[Suntzu 644]

edit edit edit

 

Im not upset at all, more like a big let down. You wouldn't say that if it was you though with 30% damage increase for a spell that does basically nothing and a buff that is so situational it is also useless. 30% extra damage is constant while the 50% poison is so situational as to rarely ever come into play.

 

You're just mad you got kicked from KoS. Grow up. It was so balanced one of the other guys with it quit playing...

[JockII 338]

edit edit edit

 

Im not upset at all, more like a big let down. You wouldn't say that if it was you though with 30% damage increase for a spell that does basically nothing and a buff that is so situational it is also useless. 30% extra damage is constant while the 50% poison is so situational as to rarely ever come into play.

 

You're just mad you got kicked from KoS. Grow up. It was so balanced one of the other guys with it quit playing...

Lets keep on track tony, Kos is not what this  thread is about and i really don't want it to become another joke like the kingdom.

 

Lets look at this simply. Did you take the risk willingly knowing you might get bad stuff... well yes..

 

just like when my deed was hit by an epic event i bitched and moan like the normal wurm player... but in the end i sucked it up pulled the guys together and we fixed it and because of that we got a better deed. i've already said how strong this ability actually is but your more concerned how its "unbalanced". pretty much just deal with it. 

 

I would be happy to have that ability, i would lib priest up and do stupid amounts of damage with fungas trap. or hell i might eveb bring venom back. just a game gotta role with it.

 

Best of luck with your new abilities.

[Zwei 210]

The fact that there are some completely broken buffs and some game-changing debuffs just yells unbalanced, as far as 'balanced' goes, thats just someone trying to say "grow up you overpowered idiot, I can finally kill you because i stink."

 

The fact poison was even thought up especially with water is so situational, so unbalanced to the debuff's that come with it. It just sounds like problems waiting to appear. Maybe more so to actually adding true buffs that can really change game, or lowering the buff/debuffs of all 'wizard' powers. so they don't completely ruin some players gameplays.

 

The fact Suntzu hasn't simply voided the character because of a ridiculously unbalanced set of power(s) is amazing with what he now has to deal with, exposing his weakness practically yells "Target me all the time, i'll die first!"

[Suntzu 644]

First of all I made the thread not you Jock. The point was to warn other players of the in balance and since no one else wants to talk about it or share the info I thought it would be nice for the community. Erik seems to have the same thoughts by setting up this discussion for the near future so the community can chime in. Even the dev pointed out the system has in-balances... So please stop embarrassing yourself.

 

You are also making comments that make no sense. the 50% poison does not buff poison attacks. it is a physical resistance so no you wont be doing "stupid amounts" of damage with fungus trap. It also does not make a venom attack any more powerful either. You are simply talking out of your ass tryign to troll because you are butthurt about getting kicked from KoS. This is not the pvp thread, besides your name never pops up much in pvp anyway so if you dont post there don't come in this thread trying to get a reaction, talking about something you have no clue about. The simple fact you thought I would do 50% more poison damage shows me you didnt read the thread and are just trying to use the thread to take a jab because of your recent QQ session. It's sad.

 

PM me if you want to go off topic though and if you are going to add your opinion maybe you should read how it actually works. That doesn't seem to be what you are here for though.

 

"each spell learned gives players a permanent and constant bonus resistance to a certain type of attack from fire to acid, piercing, bite damage and most other conceivable types of injury"

 

That doesn't say I do 50% more poison damage like you ignorantly suggested in your post.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Suntzu

[Suntzu 644]

The fact that there are some completely broken buffs and some game-changing debuffs just yells unbalanced, as far as 'balanced' goes, thats just someone trying to say "grow up you overpowered idiot, I can finally kill you because i stink."

 

The fact poison was even thought up especially with water is so situational, so unbalanced to the debuff's that come with it. It just sounds like problems waiting to appear. Maybe more so to actually adding true buffs that can really change game, or lowering the buff/debuffs of all 'wizard' powers. so they don't completely ruin some players gameplays.

 

The fact Suntzu hasn't simply voided the character because of a ridiculously unbalanced set of power(s) is amazing with what he now has to deal with, exposing his weakness practically yells "Target me all the time, i'll die first!"

 

A dev also commented on the some of the un balances.

 

I look forward to the community discussing this when Erik does his thread.

[JockII 338]

So I ate a red Cherry from Valrei.

 

My title is Evocator so i was like cool maybe ill get to summon a creature like the sorcery page says.

 

Anyway if anyone is thinking about what it does...

 

I got a 50% poison buff (yay?) and a 30% damage debuff (OUCH) Yes it does suck as bad as it sounds!

 

Anyway so the spell I got has nothing to do with summoning a creature.

 

Its called Karma bolt and it takes like 1000 karma to cast and does one low very damage infection wound.

 

 

 

Thought I would share before anyone else gimps their account for no reason. Cheers!

Says buff not damage reduction..

 says damage debuff... not increased damage taken ..

 

I read the thread and threw my opinion based on it. easy to miss interpret, once again tony i know you made this thread stay on point and stop bringing up drama. this is a discussion about buffs not pmks.

[Klaa 4,872]

Eh the OP of a thread is traditionally allowed plenty of rail. The thread is their trainwreck afterall.

 

I'll give him credit, he started a sorcery thread discussing the weakness/strengths by opening up with what his are. One cannot expect others to share without sharing as well.

[Versai 367]

I think the entire spell system was rushed and not well thought-out. There are so few people with spells, and they're either relatively useless or unbalanced. And then they get fixed or changed without any notification, so its hard to tell whether they're ever balanced. I agree the lack of documentation and info in this game is a pain.

 

On one hand, I gotta laugh that you bought that because it was one of the more publicly unwanted ones and I just love to see pay2win players get disappointed. Honestly, I don't think there is a spell item out there worth paying for, and hardly worth the effort to make/buy a staff. They're kinda interesting, but a lot of the abilities would only be useful in 1% of situations so it hardly matters who has what. And even if they were stronger, only the more active, long-term players have enough karma to make use of them.

 

TLDR The spell system is not worth the time/money invested and just unbalances and detracts from the pvp environment we already had.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Versai

[Postes 5,282]

Just my thoughts:

 

 

You put way too much imbalance in the game when you add in these buffs/debuffs, you're making Epic a paradox.  Just stick to spells because that should be the perk of being a sorcerer, at this moment people are much more concerned about the buff/debuff, and no one gives a crap about the spell.  Half the people with spells don't carry a staff because they just like the buff/debuff.  The idea of epic is you're meant to join Epic, skill up quickly, and be able to fight on an even playing field.  I sold my main account because I enjoyed the challenge of a lesser account, and I had good success, but I don't think that's totally plausible now in someways for new players coming in versus sorcerers.  Let's say you fight a guy 1v1, and he uses fire pillar, and you die.  That's fine because you could go priest up yourself and match the enemy, but you can't do that with sorcery.  You can't simply get a tome as easily and have that advantage.  You have better chance to fight evenly on here, but you lose that chance when you're giving others these huge buffs that aren't achievable by everyone like priesthood.  Do you think some new guy is going to be able to compete with some these players with these buffs?  Not some of them, no.

 

I love the sorcery idea, but the buffs/debuffs are just senseless and make it harder for new players, and makes accounts just stronger to the point they can easily kill some people no matter what.  The reason I don't want to post about other's buffs/debuffs and give examples is because that's their accounts and private information, I don't feel right saying it and showing their weaknesses and strengths, but you as a developer should know the impact of these buffs/debuffs can make or break an account.  There are some buffs though that makes such a big difference, and there's debuffs that can literally cause people to die in 3 hits.  I seen a debuff do 30dmg+ to a person using a small spell.  

 

30% physical damage debuff?  What's the point of even playing on that account anymore, lol.  It's trash.  Anyone knows that.  You're giving people 50% buffs against attributes like slashing or fire, and that is so overwhelmingly and not at all something minor like it should be.  10% is more than gracious and not making a large gap between players.  

 

 

 

 

I would put these buffs/debuffs down to 10% at most, they shouldn't be making such groundbreaking impacts on fights that make the game unfair, they should just be little small perks, and the spells should be the center highlight of sorcery, not the buffs.  Currently though you either are very strong with a great buff, or you have screwed yourself over with a bad debuff that's huge and irreversible like Dragonpen/Ghoulio who have physical damage debuff, it's not really fair. 

Edited February 22, 2014 by Postes

[Zwei 210]

I think the only true perk one is allowed to is becoming a god, as that was the whole point. (In Epic)

 

Now it's about people chosen by gods to have a tome, why not just make them a demi-god already.

 

Several systems on Epic need fixing, Valrei in general, sorcerer system, and probably something oriented to kingdoms that I don't know about.

[Fireflyb 920]

Some of the debuffs I've heard about are truly ridiculous; I'd agree with making any buffs/debuffs be ~10% at max... any more just seems too crippling.

[Brunwulf 470]

Who knew the Dragonpen account could get any worst!

 

lmao.

[Kagrenac 812]

buffs/debuffs

Physical      resist 10%    Vulnerability 30%
Pierce         resist 50%    Vulnerability 50%
Slash          resist 50%    Vulnerability 50%
Crush         resist 50%    Vulnerability 50%
Bite             resist 50%    Vulnerability 200%    
Poison        resist 50%    Vulnerability 100%
Disease      resist 50%    Vulnerability 200%
Internal       resist 50%    Vulnerability 200%
Water         resist 50%    Vulnerability 200%
Fire            resist 50%    Vulnerability 200%    
Cold           resist 50%    Vulnerability 200%    
Acid           resist 50%     Vulnerability 200%  

 

 

And yeah, the spells are pretty much worthless.

[Postes 5,282]

That's what I mean, the powers are just so large and impactful that they're more important looked at instead of the spells.  I got lucky that my spell was much better than my buff/debufs, but I know many with useless spells and on top of that a useless buff and a large popular debuff, they aren't very equal at all.  It's a bit insult to injury to not only have a crappy spell, but you now also have a bad debuff that you can't ever get rid of.  That's a big risk and agreeably we all take it knowing that risk, but I just think it's too much imbalance.  

Edited February 22, 2014 by Postes

[Klaa 4,872]

Unfortunately seeing alot of opinions thrown around and very little actual information. For example, there's general talk of a few overpowering buffs, and little to no mention (even in general terms) of the accompanying debuff (let alone the spell). Sure something can be outrageous; however, it comes across as less so if the achille's heel is known. Basic Art of War for that matter: hit an opponent where they are weak while avoiding where they are strong.

 

Dont even really need exact detail in terms of numbers and figures, one can get away with some vagueness there.

 

Course there's also the lack of info in wth the so-called overpowering buff(s) even is.

 

These gaps raise a whole slew of questions for those who are not already aware.

 

I can understand desiring to not paint bulls-eye on oneself or others; however, there are descriptive ways to get around such. One possibility, assuming the player hasnt been flagrantly obvious (would make the whole secrecy argument mute anyways), simply dont mention the exact char or the player's name.

 

One cannot honestly expect open discussion to exist without being open. Otherwise all that will occur is rumor and speculation that gets no where, spinning wheels in the gossip mud.

 

EDIT: Far as the unfairness of the system goes... its not like players were forced to break the cherry. Let alone the multiple usage and the existence of alts. The same kind of alts people been screaming bloody murder about for years.

 

Granted the stated numerical severity of debuffs carries weight... even if no mention of the respective positives.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Klaa

[SmeJack 5,801]

The problem with this Klaa, is that each buff/debuff is linked to a particular wizard name and you can see these on enemy when you mouse over so as soon as you see their title then you know what their weakness is

[Klaa 4,872]

Assuming one knows the buffs/debuffs/spells that are linked to the title, sure.

 

Say I read as Planeswalker, what would that tell you?

 

Speaking of... it almost seemed from a comment Rolf made that some titles come from having multiple abilities in combination. Probably reading too much into it though.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Klaa

[SmeJack 5,801]

Sure but you suggested revealing the buffs/debuffs and just not mentioning names of who has them, since all of them are known already without knowing which tome they relate to im assuming you wish to go that step further which is just as good as naming names

[Alden 209]

Just my two copper, but it doesn't look like any consideration was taken into how the sorcery system would affect the game or what it's place would be.

 

It reeks of "makes sense" design, i.e:

Guy 1: "Hey lets add sorcerers"

Guy 2: "Cool, they should have pew pew magic like all rpg's do"

Guy 1: "Yeah but it it shouldn't do lots of damage, that would be unfair on others"

Guy 2: "Ok, but we can't have every average joe casting magic missiles so lets make it cost lots of karma"

Guy 1: "Also, lets give them a random buff to make the feel special and unique from other players"

Guy 2: "Awesome, but we better give the a random debuff as well to make it fair"

Guy 1: "Makes sense"

 

Russian roulette is not a fun game to play.

Combine that with useless spells that are difficult to cast, and you've got a system with basically no upsides apart from being "unique".

 

My suggestions for Sorcery:

Do away with pew pew magic and replace them with interesting spells, summoning creatures, tiles based affects, mass teleports and other utility spells that can be used creatively.

Do away with the karma cost of spells and give them a timer, one cast every 18 hours or so.

Remove the buff's and debuff's, they add nothing to the game.