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Emoo

Add a timer for suicide when Enemies in local.

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It doesn't Fooligun.  Johnston has suicided on a few occasions when arrows were being fired - until it hits you get no credit.  In terms of melee, so long as the combat window pops up, you'll get credit.  The issue is, you can suicide instantly when you see someone a few tiles off, hear a bow creak, or spot someone casting.


 


But whatever, this thread has gone back and forth, and we're just rehashing now.


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Simply placing a timer on suicide is no different than a timer to go to bed or a longer timer to log out in certain situations. Let alone disconnects.


 


If anything a suicide timer adheres to the intent behind having such timers.


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Simply placing a timer on suicide is no different than a timer to go to bed or a longer timer to log out in certain situations. Let alone disconnects.

 

If anything a suicide timer adheres to the intent behind having such timers.

 

I agree, and its just hilarious everybody tries to make their own little loopholes in this simple concept.    "OH they need to target"  or "They need to be able to get to the corpse"    Its just sad and pathetic.  All of you have been playing as long as I have and seen the kind of abuse twigs caused before they were fixed, same thing.  

 

You guys want more nodrop mechanics, this is the kind of thing we have to put up with now, imagine what it will be like if people drop even less then we currently have with mag bonus, res stones, and karma corpse recalls.   You guys want to break the very spirit of PvP be ready for arguments like this everywhere on the forums.   No one wants to play on a sucky half-pvp server where people can just thumb their noses at you and suicide instead of actually playing in an environment that is supposed to have risk far beyond the  kind of penalties you get on freedom with death.     Just no... go back to freedom, because you certainly don't deserve to play here and enjoy and be part of this community.

 

It goes strictly against the game concept.  I argue up and down the walls about this game being a sandbox, and players creating their own environment, but there is a difference between using what we got, our creativity, time and effort and just abusing a mechanic far beyond what it was intended for.   Its the same argument I saw from the same people about alts, repairing towers, stealthing in cave in ways that they couldn't be unstealthed, etc the list goes on and on.     

Edited by Battlepaw

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It amazes me how low people reading comprehension levels are in these forums. Well done. Well atleast I now know that people feel like a timer for /suicide is violating their ability to play sandbox game and that I camp the Whiltelight (Whilst acctually making an appearence at the HOTA) and that Im a bottom feeding scumbag. Well done people, well done. Id just like to say that my first post is hardly pushy or even overly complaining so why are people acting like I'm devastated at the loss at a single champ point?


 


I'll once again make the point that twigging, teleportation, logging off all have restrictions or timers on them for the same reasons that suicide should have some kind of a timer. It doesn't change those who chose to use the mechanic how its intended but it does change the game for those who would use it in a fashion that detracts from PvP. 


 


10/10 would suggest again. 


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I don't pvp at all in Wurm but the idea in the edited OP about putting a timer on suicide just makes sense imho.


 


Almost everything else has a timer, even the silly non-pve/pvp things such as selling a corpse to a token...and every other pvp mmo game I've played has some kind of restriction or prevention on suicide during combat.


 


So +1 from me, simply because it makes sense from game design perspective.


Edited by syncaidius
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Alt killing detracts more from pvp than suiciding. Priorities...


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-1, I don't know, maybe mechanics can be tweaked a bit to prevent it but outright disabling it isn't really fair.  I was a Champion on Wild and Epic, and I too had people suicide in front of me, but I can't really deny it's a tactic.  I can't also deny it's not breaking any game rules, mechanics, or exploiting anything.  It just seems low.  I think the punishments should just be more severe for suicide in local of an enemy such as losing more FS (0.50) and have 0% their res stone or Mag bonus will work.  Currently you can suicide and keep all your stuff.  

I would be all for disabling mag/res stone effects for using suicide while in local of an enemy. It would also be fair for there to be a much greater impact on skill losses from suicide with enemy in local including making stuff like knowledge path bonus not work on suicides when in local of enemy.

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Alt killing detracts more from pvp than suiciding. Priorities...

 

And here I thought it was all those yoyo's....... ;)

 

 

@syncaidius  Yes, most people here I think would agree that "During Combat" you should not be able to suicide instantly.

 

That's not what's being asked for here at all if you read it and A Timer was not even suggested in the beginning.

 

What is being asked for is to remove a players right to do something from 80 tiles away even though they can't even see the player.

 

I again say that unless you have targeted the player and the player is in combat you have no rights to restrict anything at all.

 

 

 

Are there any other things that if a person pops the local chat box 80 tiles you are not allowed to do or shouldn't be allowed to do?

 

And should all things that prevent someone from killing another player and gain their affinity/items be removed like was suggested because someone pops up in the local 80 tile away chat box?

 

 

Since this is about the 80 tile away Local chat box....

 

Why should you be able to see someone at all unless you find them or they are making enough noise for you to hear them 80 tiles away?

Edited by Protunia

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Are there any other things that if a person pops the local chat box 80 tiles you are not allowed to do or shouldn't be allowed to do?

 

 

Errr. Yes. Lots.

 

You can't twig or karma to escape a person who is in your local for example. Similar reasoning for that code existing as the reasoning for this suggestion >.>

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Errr. Yes. Lots.

 

You can't twig or karma to escape a person who is in your local for example. Similar reasoning for that code existing as the reasoning for this suggestion >.>

 

 

Ok theres 1 and was this recently added within the last year?

 

Also do you think the local 80 tiles is too far really?

 

I mean 80 tiles allows for anyone to pretty much do what ever they like long before you ever get there they would not even have to suicide...

it seems these recent suggestions and changes for restrictions and timers I see being implemented are supposed to make you have more PvP....is it working at all? Or does it seem like the players just do something else to not bother with the combat anyhow?

 

I don't know, but it sure seem like lately I see a lot of suggestions about making rules for PvP, changing things, etc....

Edited by Protunia

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Ok theres 1 and was this recently added within the last year?

 

Also do you think the local 80 tiles is too far really?

 

I mean 80 tiles allows for anyone to pretty much do what ever they like long before you ever get there they would not even have to suicide...

 

No its been in for a long time, since similar problems occurred with people abusing it to escape from certain death.

 

There's other examples, such as offdeed gatehouses unlocking if you pass through them just because an enemy is in your local 80 tiles away. Personally i think that one is stupid and screws over attacking forces but if the code is going to exist it needs to function over a local area. Especially as we know similar code exists meaning it's something Rolf knows how to add into the game with ease.

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Ok theres 1 and was this recently added within the last year?

 

Also do you think the local 80 tiles is too far really?

 

I mean 80 tiles allows for anyone to pretty much do what ever they like long before you ever get there they would not even have to suicide...

 

it seems these restrictions and timers I see being implemented are supposed to make you have more PvP....is it working at all?

 

Or does it seem like the players just do something else to not bother with the combat anyhow?

 

Enemies in local also increase the amount of time it takes to log off. Unlock mine doors. Plus having an enemy in local also reduces your skill gain. All of these mechanics are in game to try and promote more PvP. Honestly Im surprised you're able to form any kind of an opinion on this suggestion when your knowledge is apparently exceptionally lacking. As I suggested before, perhaps you should take steps to educating yourself before providing input.

 

All good decisions are based upon good information. 

Edited by Emoo

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Enemies in local also increase the amount of time it takes to log off. Unlock mine doors. Plus having an enemy in local also reduces your skill gain. All of these mechanics are in game to try and promote more PvP. Honestly Im surprised you're able to form any kind of an opinion on this suggestion when your knowledge is apparently exceptionally lacking. As I suggested before, perhaps you should take steps to educating yourself before providing input.

 

All good decisions are based upon good information. 

 

Ok.. so you do have some other restrictions  based on this 80 tile area from players.....Does it really work at all??

 

As far as my opinion I have played PvP games and none of them had this local area of restriction from that far of a distance.

 

Some would have rules of engagement when in game combat that would kick in and some no rules like these at all.

 

I Didn't realize you have that hard of a time getting people to come PvP from 80 tiles away..

 

Perhaps having Local is the problem.....Since there seems to be so many restrictions  because of it that are supposed to make people PvP.

 

Maybe if you could just walk/ride up on them and attack them you would find more PvP??

 

Then you could use rules around actually being in combat more and not around some chat names that pop up so far away.

Edited by Protunia

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Removing suicide wont solve anything anyways. Players can simply jump off a cliff, swim out to sea and drown, strip naked and slap a troll etc etc etc...


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Removing suicide wont solve anything anyways. Players can simply jump off a cliff, swim out to sea and drown, strip naked and slap a troll etc etc etc...

 

 

All things that take time, not instant. Which is the change that Im now suggesting here that suicide simply takes alittle time.  ;)

Edited by Emoo

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All things that take time, not instant. Which is the change that Im now suggesting here that suicide simply takes alittle time.  ;)

 

So in other words keep placing restrictions on PvP based on some fabricated 80 tile radius.....Do you not see that you are in fact pushing away PvP?

 

Like I have said before you want Raiding of $$, Total Destruction, FFA, Full Looting, loss of RL $ all the time in Wurm PvP.

 

As if this isn't enough to turn someone off to playing it you want to keep adding to the restrictions of things players can do, some 80 tiles away.

 

Yeah keep it up sounds like a great formula for more people to come and join your ranks.... :rolleyes:

 

In other words you are not making PvP in the least bit more attractive.

Edited by Protunia

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OK, we have a stupid timer for minedoors with enemies. Anyone need a timer for suicide :unsure:


 


Whats the next? More timer for casting, drinking something, fighting, raiding, looting and other?


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So in other words keep placing restrictions on PvP based on some fabricated 80 tile radius.....Do you not see that you are in fact pushing away PvP?

 

Like I have said before you want Raiding of $$, Total Destruction, FFA, Full Looting, loss of RL $ all the time in Wurm PvP.

 

As if this isn't enough to turn someone off to playing it you want to keep adding to the restrictions of things players can do from 80 tiles away...

 

Yeah keep it up sounds like a great formula for more people to come and join your ranks.... :rolleyes:

 

In other words you are not making PvP in the least bit more attractive.

 

If you are trying to suggest that PvP should be made more attactive by your standards as someone who is turned off by risk rather than the reality of this server where there is constant risk I really fail to see your reasoning.     If we have to make everything more like freedom simply to apease a few possible recruits then I don't see the point of having a PvP server.     

 

 

OK, we have a stupid timer for minedoors with enemies. Anyone need a timer for suicide :unsure:

 

Whats the next? More timer for casting, drinking something, fighting, raiding, looting and other?

 

The timer for mine doors was a stupid idea that is causing a lot of problems here, yes I do see your point it isn't a solve all band-aid for everything. In fact, it was a bad decision considering all the suggestions and even predictions by many vets of the reality of it's implementation.  The main issue with the mine doors isn't because they break PvP, but that they imbalance it.    

 

There are areas however, where a timer does offer a good solution, and we have many other mechanics that are along the same lines as suicide that were added to a timer and it seems to work.   I would feel much more confident of it being a successful fix if a timer was added rather then player targeting, both because of how buggy targeting can be, and that it is very easy to lose.    The same for the body pickup suggestion, because its possible to Karma corpses, and if they have a buddy, or even just a non-prem alt they can just use that to bury the corpse.    There are ways around both those mechanics.   

 

An action timer offers the best possible solution, at least the best I've seen here in this topic.  If I see a better one I'll consider it.   

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Of course you fail to see anyone's reasoning who thinks controlling people from 80 tiles away is JUNK!!! LMAO!!  


 


Listen to yourself...seriously for once....If you have to control what people do from 80 tiles away its not freaking PvP in the first place.


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Of course you fail to see anyone's reasoning who thinks controlling people from 80 tiles away is JUNK!!! LMAO!!  

 

Listen to yourself...seriously for once....If you have to control what people do from 80 tiles away its not freaking PvP in the first place.

 

Local distance, it is already used to control mechanics that have been issues in the past and affects just about everything, skill loss, twigging, logging off, etc.   If your trying to kick a dead horse you picked the right one.    Protunia, if you have been screaming on and on about that, then you still don't realize that the effects of this being a PvP server start from the very moment you enter the server much less local distance.  It dosen't magically begin from when enemies are actually attacking you. Looking through your posts, as someone who actually plays here, I doubt you have paid attention to half the things that affect our PvP on Chaos and Epic in the past and have greatly affected the way we play here.    

Edited by Battlepaw

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Local distance, it is already used to control mechanics that have been issues in the past and affects just about everything, skill loss, twigging, logging off, etc.   If your trying to kick a dead horse you picked the right one.    Protunia, if you have been screaming on and on about that, then you still don't realize that the effects of this being a PvP server start from the very moment you enter the server much less local distance.  It dosen't magically begin from when enemies are actually attacking you. Looking through your posts, as someone who actually plays here, I doubt you have paid attention to half the things that affect our PvP on Chaos and Epic in the past and have greatly affected the way we play here.    

 

 

No wonder it sucks.....you have it set up all wrong and are reinforcing the suckage.

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-1. You can suicide irl, to avoid being killed by the enemy. why not in a game.


Edited by ausimus

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No wonder it sucks.....you have it set up all wrong and are reinforcing the suckage.

 

It's the fact that the /suicide mechanic is instant that is the issue.   If it even had a 30 second timer within local distance of an enemy it wouldn't be abused in PvP to the point it is used to deny kills in the HOTA, which was actually added by Rolf in part as a place where you should be able to reliably get fights and ofc kills.    The whole concept just boggles the mind in how anyone can try to justify it in any way.   

 

-1. You can suicide irl, to avoid a fight. why not in a game.

 

This isn't IRL, Its a carefully controlled experiment in how many ways a computer game can drive a player insane.   Trying to find a few ways to save sanity is always a good prospect in Wurm.    :blink:

Edited by Battlepaw

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most pvp games I know doesn't have a suicide function. Isn't wurm have it so players can escape its bugs? 


 


In real life war, soldiers suiciding is not the way to win a war, unless they strap bombs to themselves or doing kamikaze.


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I'll once again make the point that twigging, teleportation, logging off all have restrictions or timers on them for the same reasons that suicide should have some kind of a timer. It doesn't change those who chose to use the mechanic how its intended but it does change the game for those who would use it in a fashion that detracts from PvP. 

 

Don't forget being in combat triggers a timer on suicide as well, which leads me to believe suicide to escape isn't intended, but that's my own thought.

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