Add a timer for suicide when Enemies in local.

[Nadroj 3,554]

HOW. PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THIS COULD DESTROY PVP!?

[khatanka 317]

HOW. PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW THIS COULD DESTROY PVP!?

You love too many rules and restrictions? I and others do not!

 

Free chaos!

[Druidnature 1,118]

You love too many rules and restrictions? I and others do not!

Free chaos!

In that case... Remove chaos deeds please

[Pollo 146]

Realism doesn't control wurm, not to mention it's boring. So stop chucking it into all of our sandboxes <3

Stop chucking your rules into our sandbox.

 

Scenario 1:  IRL a spy gets capured by the enemy.  As they prepare to interrogate/torture him to find out information, he takes a poison pill to deny them that information.  Rather immediate, and denied the enemy of any prize (information).

 

Scenario 2:  The player Emoo was readying to attack, rather than /suicide, goes afk and gets a drink or uses the bathroom.  He never stood a chance against Emoo, regardless of whether or not he had 70+fs or not.  Either way, /suicide or AFK death is not PVP, is one way better?  Sure, the afk death would have given Emoo a champion point, so by /suicide the player has denied his enemy the prize.  The champion point is the real purpose of this thread.

 

Do not tell me how I have to play the game.  Honestly, if it were me in those circumstances, I would likely have gone AFK and took the death but not the negatives from /suicide.  I do not know why this thread is even being talked about.  Make a rule like this, ok fine, then never talk about Wurm being sandbox PVP again.

[Stonesolid 159]

Make suicide give you a 95 damage wound then you lay there dying waiting for that last 5% to bleed out of you. Problem solved and realism implemented. 

[Druidnature 1,118]

Stop chucking your rules into our sandbox.

Scenario 1: IRL a spy gets capured by the enemy. As they prepare to interrogate/torture him to find out information, he takes a poison pill to deny them that information. Rather immediate, and denied the enemy of any prize (information).

Thanks for proving my point for me...

So tell me, when are they adding capturing to the game? Because without it, I see no use for suicide "logically"

So where is the capture option, weather effects, cold/warmth, revive, teleport, flying, jumping, god mode....

This already isn't a sandbox if you consider having suicide on a timer makes this game a sandbox or not.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, honestly. But a few things DO need rules. Or, in this case, a timer (even a relatively short one)

A lot of rules are bad, especially ones that limit players, sadly most rules are made to prevent a few from abusing a fun thing (look at rares...) and this is the case here from the sounds of it. If you standing 10 feet away, lift your sword up, and your enemy suicides.... How does that make any sense?

Either way, I'm out of this from here on out. The points been made and those that don't realize the issue and only focus on it being "another rule" are going to continue arguing as in every other thread. Lately it's been getting worse, time to take a forum break hmmm?

[Kagrenac 812]

All it needs is to give credit for the suicide if you have the person targeted.

[Battlepaw 585]

After thinking about it, honestly, you win some, you lose some. You aren't entitled to every single player you find, especially when you are a drake/scale wearing sob, and if you're champ. Then welcome to hell buddy.

 

Its  a bit controlling after once you think about it, and its more or less just people crying, the most that can be done is a drop of all equipment no matter what, or ress-stones are ineffective, and maybe mag bonus is still in effect, simply so it isn't "SUICIDE! DED, NO ITEMZ"

 

-1

 

I was ambushed on the HOTA much the same way, and not just by ONE player wearing drake/scale, but a whole group of high level JK, we got lucky, they were on the ridge above us and were having a hard time getting down to us or something as we ran for hell back to FF (something I still can't figure out how we survived, they had us dead to rights on the Steppe, and they started off between us and Hunter's Lodge I think).   I or no one in the group had any intention of letting the JK get our names on deathtabs, or any gear from us, which would have easily been the result of our small group of 4 pp in plate on horses with no spares vs 6+ of the best players JK could drag out of bed that early in the morning includeing Doctorchaos, Bloodyhell, etc.  There was no question we would have died, if we had been cut off none of us would have made it.

 

Hell at no point in time did I consider suicide, even if I would have been caught I'd have kept fighting.  We successfully denied the JK their easy kills that day, by doing what we could to do so.   In that situation, there were players trying to kill us and we managed to somehow luck out.   That is the essence of player vs player mechanics, where you are not fighting wildlife but living thinking players, who are just as smart as you and can give you a run for your money often in surprising ways.    

 

The way many of you make it out that guy who suicides is the true hero on Chaos, he ran the odds against a single MR champ, and bravely sacrificed a few skill points because he not only didn't want to participate on a pvp server, but admittedly had no intention of doing so.    His only tactic was to valiantly swallow his own tongue after briefly considering the risk of a few random  skills, (If he had any skill loss at all)  There was no planning involved other than how quickly he could type /suicide and that he had the bare minimum with him to lose.    This has nothing to do with some sort of super spy bravely making a sacrifice, it was done to deny a kill and a champ point, and to keep the enemy from getting FS and an affinity.  End of story.  

 

That is just cheap, and it clearly is not an intended part of PvP here.  

 

I run those odds every day here on Chaos, and its an insult to myself and every player on this server to circumvent the pvp system simply because you can type /suicide in enemy local and instantly deny the enemy gain.   We don't ask much more than a timer.  For all those players out there that think it's a valid tactic, then go back to Freedom where you don't have to worry about fighting other players.   I can't even fathom why you bother with playing on this server.        

Edited February 17, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Rathgar 959]

-1 to rules controlling other peoples experience and gamestyle, just because butthurt-entitled players think that they "deserve", that they have the right to command others how to play a SANDBOX game.

 

If I want to run naked ANYWHERE, Hota, my deed, YOUR DEED, and suicide before I get killed, its my right.   It shouldnt be taken away from me.   I suffer penalties from the suicide, and you get nothing, because you did nothing.

 

Complete diferent scenario if the players are already in combat, or were in combat recently, and "recently" by wurm standards should be like a couple of hours, then the suicide should be just like a kill by the player who inflicted the most damage, or was last engaged. 

 

Everything changes after both players ACTUALLY engage in PvP, then yes, block suicide, logging off, farwalkers, mine hopping, etc.

[Battlepaw 585]

-1 to rules controlling other peoples experience and gamestyle, just because butthurt-entitled players think that they "deserve", that they have the right to command others how to play a SANDBOX game.

 

If I want to run naked ANYWHERE, Hota, my deed, YOUR DEED, and suicide before I get killed, its my right.   It shouldnt be taken away from me.   I suffer penalties from the suicide, and you get nothing, because you did nothing.

 

Complete diferent scenario if the players are already in combat, or were in combat recently, and "recently" by wurm standards should be like a couple of hours, then the suicide should be just like a kill by the player who inflicted the most damage, or was last engaged. 

 

Everything changes after both players ACTUALLY engage in PvP, then yes, block suicide, logging off, farwalkers, mine hopping, etc.

 

Sigh... yes we play a sandbox game, but that dosen't mean "Anything goes so I'll figure out any kind of I-win buttons I can"   It means you are playing a game.  Every game has rules, that CONTROL player's gameplay.    Yes, if you don't like that go and play solitaire or something that has less restrictive rules, and doesn't waste our time.     

 

The rules here aka the existing game mechanics we play under shape our experience.   The whole point is to pit two human beings against each other, not simply pit your ability to type /suicide vs another players wasted time in coming after you.    That is not what player vs player is, a complete void where it can be bypassed in a PvP server simply by a keyboard command.    There is no right to abuse mechanics well beyond their intended use.    If you feel obligated to lecture us in right vs wrong from your point of view do it from a less shaky pedestal.    

Edited February 17, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Rathgar 959]

Sigh... yes we play a sandbox game, but that dosen't mean "Anything goes so I'll figure out any kind of I-win buttons I can"   It means you are playing a game.  Every game has rules, that CONTROL player's gameplay.    Yes, if you don't like that go and play solitaire or something that has less restrictive rules, and doesn't waste our time.     

 

The rules here aka the existing game mechanics we play under shape our experience.   The whole point is to pit two human beings against each other, not simply pit your ability to type /suicide vs another players wasted time in coming after you.    That is not what player vs player is, a complete void where it can be bypassed in a PvP server simply by a keyboard command.    There is no right to abuse mechanics well beyond their intended use.    If you feel obligated to lecture us in right vs wrong from your point of view do it from a less shaky pedestal.    

 

I dont try to lecture you, I should have expressed it in a more evident way, that is just my personal point of view, and not by any means I think its an absolute truth of any kind.

 

I belive, that untill ACTUAL PvP has taken place, you havent lost anything, and you chase other players at your own will.   The system does not need to reward you for making bad choices.   Weight the pros and cons, even if the person suicides right in front of you, you still get to loot.  

 

If the person was naked and had nothing to loot.... then you probably chased it just to take it away from local,  well, after suicide he is out of local as well.   You feel that something is stolen from you, the FS, champ points, whatever it is, but those arent yours to begin with, not untill you earn them.   

 

And yes, the other player is denying you of those, but he does so at an expense.   Like it was mentioned before, it is a tactical/strategical option,  it has been done in RL countless times, for thousands of years.  I dont think it should be removed just because a few want to force other players to partake in a combat they do not wish to.

[Battlepaw 585]

I dont try to lecture you, I should have expressed it in a more evident way, that is just my personal point of view, and not by any means I think its an absolute truth of any kind.

 

I belive, that untill ACTUAL PvP has taken place, you havent lost anything, and you chase other players at your own will.   The system does not need to reward you for making bad choices.   Weight the pros and cons, even if the person suicides right in front of you, you still get to loot.  

 

If the person was naked and had nothing to loot.... then you probably chased it just to take it away from local,  well, after suicide he is out of local as well.   You feel that something is stolen from you, the FS, champ points, whatever it is, but those arent yours to begin with, not untill you earn them.   

 

And yes, the other player is denying you of those, but he does so at an expense.   Like it was mentioned before, it is a tactical/strategical option,  it has been done in RL countless times, for thousands of years.  I dont think it should be removed just because a few want to force other players to partake in a combat they do not wish to.

 

I'm not lecturing you, I'm defending the concept of PvP on a PvP server... er how hard is that for you to accept?    

 

There is no question that this needs changed, this isn't a debate  to you, it is a religious conviction you seem to have to keep a mechanic you know is flawed.   If players don't wish to partake in combat, there are servers for them, they have a choice not to come here.   

 

There isn't a question of when a player is in PvP, because they are on a PvP server.  The moment they cross this border he or she accepts the fact that they are playing against other players and that there is risk.    If we wanted the same generic risk we take against the local wildlife we would stay on freedom, which is exactly what we get when we suicide, pretty much the same skil loss as if we were eaten by a champ troll.  

Edited February 17, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Pollo 146]

This has nothing to do with some sort of super spy bravely making a sacrifice, it was done to deny a kill and a champ point, and to keep the enemy from getting FS and an affinity.  End of story.  

And it was that players choice (with consequences of suiciding) to play the game in the way he wanted to play.  As I alluded to earlier, please come up with a full list of how you want others to pvp in this game. 

 

This is all about severe butthurt from 1 lost champion point.  Thread needs to end.

[Fooligun 591]

-1 to rules controlling other peoples experience and gamestyle, just because butthurt-entitled players think that they "deserve", that they have the right to command others how to play a SANDBOX game.

If I want to run naked ANYWHERE, Hota, my deed, YOUR DEED, and suicide before I get killed, its my right. It shouldnt be taken away from me. I suffer penalties from the suicide, and you get nothing, because you did nothing.

Complete diferent scenario if the players are already in combat, or were in combat recently, and "recently" by wurm standards should be like a couple of hours, then the suicide should be just like a kill by the player who inflicted the most damage, or was last engaged.

Everything changes after both players ACTUALLY engage in PvP, then yes, block suicide, logging off, farwalkers, mine hopping, etc.

This guy, I don't know who you are but I think you nailed it perfectly.

By the sounds of it Emoo was not even in combat with Johnston at the time yet is demanding he should of gained something or prevented Johnston from suiciding? I doubt even the coding for enemies in local had even applied by the sounds of it.

[Battlepaw 585]

This guy, I don't know who you are but I think you nailed it perfectly.

By the sounds of it Emoo was not even in combat with Johnston at the time yet is demanding he should of gained something or prevented Johnston from suiciding? I doubt even the coding for enemies in local had even applied by the sounds of it.

 

*facepalms*  Well Fooligun, if you would have bothered to read Emoo's statement rather than all the sideshows, assumptions and strawman arguments going on you would realize the facts.   Johnston was only a few tiles away, well within reach and was soon to die.    

 

This does not mean that Emoo was demanding that he somehow was entitled to Johnston or that he is some sort of monster for slaying some poor defenseless player.  This was a player that clearly, intended from the start to prevent any sort of gain to a champ and protect his affinity by not participating if he was ever in danger of dying.     We have seen this behavior before on this server, its not an isolated occurrence.     

Edited February 17, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Fooligun 591]

*facepalms*  Well Fooligun, if you would have bothered to read Emoo's statement rather than all the sideshows, assumptions and strawman arguments going on you would realize the facts.   Johnston was only a few tiles away, well within reach and was soon to die.    

 

This does not mean that Emoo was demanding that he somehow was entitled to Johnston or that he is some sort of monster for slaying some poor defenseless player.  This was a player that clearly, intended from the start to prevent any sort of gain to a champ and protect his affinity by not participating if he was ever in danger of dying.     We have seen this behavior before on this server, its not an isolated occurrence.

No, your saying a player not in combat, not under the effects of an enemy in local should not be allowed to suicide and should have a 2-5 minute suicide timer for everyone (In the game or issolated to Chaos and/or Epic). And you see nothing wrong with this? In combat sure, with an enemy in presence sure, on an enemy deed sure, in the HotA zone sure all these can prevent suicide. But you want to remove the players ability to control their death (either fighting to the death or suiciding) Because you believe that you have earned the right to control it for them simply by being in local?

Please provide another example as I don't really remember the silly things on Chaos like this.

[Battlepaw 585]

No, your saying a player not in combat, not under the effects of an enemy in local should not be allowed to suicide and should have a 2-5 minute suicide timer for everyone (In the game or issolated to Chaos and/or Epic). And you see nothing wrong with this? In combat sure, with an enemy in presence sure, on an enemy deed sure, in the HotA zone sure all these can prevent suicide. But you want to remove the players ability to control their death (either fighting to the death or suiciding) Because you believe that you have earned the right to control it for them simply by being in local?

Please provide another example as I don't really remember the silly things on Chaos like this.

 

The second you step on this server you are accepting PvP.   You are accepting a risk beyond what you take on the Freedom cluster. You are accepting the possible loss of your affinity, or giving the enemy champ points if you mess up or get yourself into a risky situation.  

 

Yes I AM pushing for mechanics that put a time on any suicide anywhere on this server. Perhaps, limit it to only apply in enemy local distance, just like twigs that is more than reasonable.   What I find perplexing is how many times this whole concept has been sidetracked in favor for some nonexistent moral precedent that people don't have to participate in the risk here like everyone one else does who are playing the game as intended.   

 

I'ts happened before, I've had many players suicide before I could get to them.  Mostly it is players griefing roads, or spy alts, but sometimes its other players who do it repeatedly.  One memorable situation for me was when a known road griefer/spy alt named Timmy led me on a long chase.  He ran into a cave filled with scorpions where I chased after him, then suicides with the suicide mechanic.   I think his intention was to try and get the local cridders to take me out.   I was a noob at the time, and it almost actually worked.  

 

 It is players like this that would normally pop death tabs and lose an affinity.    It is by no means one single isolated occurrence we are blowing out of proportion for the value of drama, MR vs JK, etc.  This is a dispute Emoo has lodged against a mechanic that has been abused many times and,  that is long overdue to be addressed.    

Edited February 17, 2014 by Battlepaw

[MrGARY 12,421]

+1 to timer, suiciding to avoid pvp is pretty dumb

[aamanus 1,488]

Why in the holy pile of nonsense is this thread full of "we should be able to go pvp and suicide out of it to avoid granting the enemy anything" posts?

 

Running a naked account (or near to) into a pvp zone (the hota) on a server that is intended for full pvp, should that person be able to run around and conquer towers, and just suicide out the moment he's in danger?

 

it makes no sense whatsoever.  Especially, say, if a handful of mag priests and a couple of fo priests go to raid a deed, catapult in grab loot and suicide out when defenders turn up and leave with all the loot they gained because mag-stone works with suicides.  By your own arguments, such tactics are totally legit - raiders get away with bunch of loot, defenders get nothing.

 

Likewise, running the hota, you knowing accept that you are going into a specifically contested zone at a time when people are likely to be there trying to secure a win for their kingdom/alliance.  If you're not happy with that situation, you shouldn't bloody well be there.

 

Now, disabling suicide just because enemies are in local isn't the answer imo, and hell, there's ways around it anyway, only not as easy to control as doing it just before you're engaged in combat by enemies.

 

Timer is probably the best situation - have to stop, stand still and peform say a 15 second action timer - that means your enemies have 15 seconds to find and engage you; if you were in a situation where they could get to you that quickly, then I'd say the enemy has earned that kill.  If they don't find you in taht time, fair to say you might have gotten away, and instead you lose out on skills/items (assuming not just running naked).  This won't interfere with the freedomers that are complaining about 'taking away their freedom to do whatever they want' etc, still allows people to suicide out of fights, but prevents the BS of, effectively, twigging out of combat.

[Arronicus 634]

I swear Protunia -1s every single PvP thread.... I don't even. 

 

This is a disgrace and shouldn't be allowed by kings of their kinglets. Please remove this. It's lame.

Protunia is actually making a good point here.

[Reklon 12]

This is what I hear:

 

"I was camping the white light altar like the bottom feeding scum that I am and this nekid dude runs over to the alter to become a priest.  I was gonna get my name on death tabs and a new affinity.  But gosh darn it.  The dude suicides before I could get my free killz.   Suicide = bad for business.   Must get on forums to complain."

 

Suicide in my personal opinion is very poor form when pvp'ing.   However, in a game where you can deny your enemy some satisfaction and can work to demoralize your enemies motivation, it might be a good bait and switch tactic.  

 

I welcome all my enemies to die by their own hand at my feet.  I save the stamina for running around to pick up the free loot and you keep your affinities.

[Postes 5,282]

-1, I don't know, maybe mechanics can be tweaked a bit to prevent it but outright disabling it isn't really fair.  I was a Champion on Wild and Epic, and I too had people suicide in front of me, but I can't really deny it's a tactic.  I can't also deny it's not breaking any game rules, mechanics, or exploiting anything.  It just seems low.  I think the punishments should just be more severe for suicide in local of an enemy such as losing more FS (0.50) and have 0% their res stone or Mag bonus will work.  Currently you can suicide and keep all your stuff.  

[Deathangel 427]

No, -1

 

I should be able to swallow my tongue if I want to.

 

If I want to not fight Miniroll i should have the ability to commit suicide lol

 

My rejection of the idea derives from my belief that PvP servers shouldn't be limited. (This would limit play style.)

 

Edit: Isn't there something where if you are recently fighting your adrenaline won't let you? Or is that only after a recent death? Test it first. You might just have to hit them with an arrow or something if you don't want to let them kill themselves.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Deathangel

[aamanus 1,488]

If they've got a combat timer with a player, that player will get credit when someone suicides.  However, you could hear the creak of a bow and suicide before the arrow lands to avoid giving said player credit.

 

@reklon - try reading the thread bud.  This was brought on because a player suicided 2 tiles away from an enemy who was moving in for the kill.  

[Fooligun 591]

If they've got a combat timer with a player, that player will get credit when someone suicides.  However, you could hear the creak of a bow and suicide before the arrow lands to avoid giving said player credit.

 

@reklon - try reading the thread bud.  This was brought on because a player suicided 2 tiles away from an enemy who was moving in for the kill.

But had yet to make contact via archery etc... While it takes a while for an arrow to land I wouldn't be surprised if it registered with the account it was fired at initially and thus engage in combat.