Add a timer for suicide when Enemies in local.

[Orb 259]

Could care less what you think....AS soon as you start make suggestions to control people you cannot see its a done deal I am going to be in on what ever junk you come up with.

By your logic freedom should be open pvp since freedom laws are controlling. I like your style. 

 

And to make my post on topic, people can suicide to avoid giving champs points, or people affinities. Denies pvp

Edited February 17, 2014 by Orb

[Protunia 735]

*facedesks*  Protunia... I know you may think you entitled to an opinion from your safe little deed on freedom simply because you draw breath, but that statement is about as ignorant as it gets.   This isn't about "Controlling people"  in fact it has NOTHING to do with you or anyone in freedom.  This isn't "Junk" its a legit complaint against a game mechanic bypassing the very basis of this server's mechanics.  

 

 

Nah its 100% completely Controlling players you cannot see at all.

 

And yes it effects me and every player in wurm now or who comes to wurm who will PvP.

 

So Like I said unless you are in actual combat with a player and actually have them in sight you have nothing.

 

Using chat as a tool to control other players is 100% JUNK.

[Heboric 808]

So your saying its ok to suicide to deny champ points, using a game mechanic that circumvents pvp, is some sort of "Tactical" decision?

 

Seems like a poor mans Karma home to me. Suicide isn't the only tactical way to avoid a defeat - and at least it's not basically free.

[Stonesolid 159]

I want to say +1 because it's a lame tactic but at the same time I enjoy freedom of choice in game and there are consequences. Maybe champs should gain points for any enemy dying nearby (like absorbing a piece of their soul) and then suiciding wouldn't be a way to deny points.

 

+1/-1

 

It'd be awesome if people who have no idea at all what the problem actually is would refrain from constantly commenting but I guess that isn't the world we live in. Chat camping? lol

Edited February 17, 2014 by Stonesolid

[Battlepaw 585]

Seems like a poor mans Karma home to me. Suicide isn't the only tactical way to avoid a defeat - and at least it's not basically free.

 

It can be if you have path of knowledge or mag saves your skills/items.  Hell if you have enough Karma, you can even get your body back before enemy may get to you.   

 

 

Nah its 100% completely Controlling players you cannot see at all.

 

And yes it effects me and every player in wurm now or who comes to wurm who will PvP.

 

So Like I said unless you are in actual combat with a player and actually have them in sight you have nothing.

 

Using chat as a tool to control other players is 100% JUNK.

 

I fail to see how a player who has zero intention to PvP or even understands the kinds of problems we face over here on chaos can remotely feel as if they are some sort of champion for PvP justice or something.  

 

Trying to pull up some sort of silly strawman debate over chat tools, controlling people, etc is a great dog and pony show but dosen't change the basis of the argument which is suicide mechanics.   If you see you are in danger, and you took that risk to come here and be part of the the PvP server you need to accept that fact.    If you get caught in the open, in enemy local, they should have a fair chance at you.  That is part of being on this server.  

 

I've been chased many times, and come close to dying several times during encounters while roaming around on this server, each time I fought for my life tooth and nail.   That's PvP, pushing a suicide button because you can't be bothered to participate is a cop out, and stinks of metagameing and abuse of game mechanics.  It certainly goes against the whole intent and purpose of playing in the environment of a PvP server.  That would be true in any game where players are pitted against each other, not just here and not just because it's a sandbox game.     

Edited February 17, 2014 by Battlepaw

[Plebian 89]

By your logic freedom should be open pvp since freedom laws are controlling. I like your style. 

 

And to make my post on topic, people can suicide to avoid giving champs points, or people affinities. Denies pvp

The person that suicides pays a price. They lose skills/gear etc. It can also have negative social effects as well. 

 

Building a wall can deny PVP, breeding/equiping horses can deny PVP, making and manning a boat can deny PVP, hiring templars can deny PVP, building a tower can deny PVP there are literally hundreds of things that can deny PVP in Wurm.

 

It is called strategy to make things so that conflict occurs when it is at your greatest advantage, and to minimize the gains of your enemy when you are at disadvantage. 

 

Suicide can be a viable tactic to carry a strategy of not feeding enemies champ points/FS/affinities.

 

It is no different than the tactic of wearing lower QL gear when going on a risky PVP outing. You are basically denying the enemy gains when at a disadvantage. The only way to deny champ points/FS/affinities is through suicide when caught at a disadvantage. If you remove the ability to suicide you remove a valuable strategic tool.  

[Banzai 664]

People should be able to suicide. 
If retrieve corpse is a problem then just put a 5 or some min timer or something. 

[rosedragon 2,282]

use my compromise. Keep the suicide, make it timed .

Because actual suicide takes time.. in game without the command, to suicide you have to jump off cliff and hope you die... or trying to get bitten by animals and wait yourself die... In real life, people were able to safe those who trying to suicide . 

Edited February 17, 2014 by rosedragon

[Protunia 735]

use my compromise. Keep the suicide, make it timed .

Because actual suicide takes time.. in game without the command, to suicide you have to jump off cliff and hope you die... or trying to get bitten by animals and wait yourself die... In real life, people were able to safe those who trying to suicide . 

 

 

Or they just stuck a sword through them selves and poof dead.  takes only a short time....so I dont know what kind of timer you are asking for here....30 secs ,1-2 mins?

 

Also what are the restrictions on this person you don't have targeted and don't see and are not in combat with after they use suicide and have to wait???

 

Can they move?  Or are they all of a sudden in some sort of death trance waiting for your sword to claim them if you happen to find them eventually...

 

OH and what if they decide to abort this suicide???

Edited February 17, 2014 by Protunia

[Emoo 4,357]

Or they just stuck a sword through them selves and poof dead.  takes only a short time....so I dont know what kind of timer you are asking for here....30 secs ,1-2 mins?

 

Also what are the restrictions on this person you don't have targeted and don't see and are not in combat with after they use suicide and have to wait???

 

Can they move?  Or are they all of a sudden in some sort of death trance waiting for your sword to claim them if you happen to find them eventually...

 

OH and what if they decide to abort this suicide???

 

 

This isn't just a matter of "Oh I have them in local, I deserve to kill them". Even if you can see them and have them targeted they can still kill themselves and you gain nothing. 

 

Let me use last night as an example. I was on the HoTA (Hunt of Ancients) looking for a pillar, I run into a JK in local, he runs down the hill seeming to expect me to be behind him instead of in front. I see him come over the ridge in front of me only 5 tiles away, I target him and just as I move in closer for a fight. Boom, dead. Only 2 tiles away from me, instant. 

 

Now why should I be out on the HoTA taking risks playing the game in the way its meant to be intended only to be cheated out of PvP. Why should they be able to participate in a mini game intended to provoke PvP and use a lame game mechanic to avoid it? This isn't about controlling players, or camping local or whatever you seem to be imagining. This is about reducing the use of abused game mechanic which reduces the amount of PvP on a server. 

 

As for the time it takes to kill yourself, the game says you swallow your tongue, not run yourself through with a sword. Swallowing your tongue as a method of killing yourself would take afew minutes for your brain to finally be completely starved of oxygen. So using the idea that suicide taking time is a null argument, infact for the sake of realism it can be argued that suicide NEEDS a timer now. This timer I would suggest to be 3-5mins, so that it is on par with logging out as a method of avoiding PvP.

 

I would also suggest for the sake of balance for the game that it actually be a timer like any other action and just like any other action can be cancelled by hitting escape. This way players can change their mind if need be. 

 

Just FYI: Chat camping isn't a thing, this is just something you've made up to try and justify your illogical and invalid argument. Your ignorance is quite clear when it comes to this suggestion, I would hence like to suggest to you that you take steps towards educating yourself so that you can make more informed judgments in the future and avoid embarrassment. I am also still very much interested on how you plan on explaining how a game mechanic that allows players to avoid PvP is actually going to cause less players to PvP. When in fact it would appear the logical result is the opposite.

 

Updating the OP to make it clear that Im in favor of adding a suicide timer.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Emoo

[Thrrim 217]

-1   If people do not want to PvP, let them suicide. But if they do suicide they lose more skills and res stones do not count. However this could just be countered by not getting into this situation in the first place.

[Torgrim 403]

How about if first person to open the corpse gets affinity, rank and makes the char pop on death tab? Timer for "soul" to stay with corpse could be 5 min.  This way you don't limit the freedom to commit suicide and you don't deny anyone the rewards of the kill. 

 

Ok, still denies the attacker some PvP but, probably it would have been slaughter anyway... 

[Battlepaw 585]

How about if first person to open the corpse gets affinity, rank and makes the char pop on death tab? Timer for "soul" to stay with corpse could be 5 min.  This way you don't limit the freedom to commit suicide and you don't deny anyone the rewards of the kill. 

 

Ok, still denies the attacker some PvP but, probably it would have been slaughter anyway... 

 

That's an over complicated way of solving the problem, and opens the issue to more problems. Just add a simple timer to suicide like many of the already existing pvp mechanics, so a person can't just off himself instantly if he is under threat.     The problems with the above situation is that it could allow the person committing suicide to deny gain simply by Karma Corpse, right after suicide before someone could get to him.   

[Torgrim 403]

Sure, but that makes it even more expensive 

[Battlepaw 585]

Sure, but that makes it even more expensive 

 

Depends on if your talking about Epic or Chaos, and how good you are at completing missions.    Its just another window, and it about as necessary to the solution to the problem as a third leg.    

[Toplel 71]

http://imgur.com/IF9YHt4

-1

[Elen 1,013]

Since the topic has now been fully described, -1 ~~ if the description is breaking immersion it could be changed to 'fall on your weapon' or 'suffers massive cardiac arrest'

 

You might want to consider opening a new topic, perhaps a poll so that +'s and -'s on the first several pages are no longer out of context.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Elen

[Protunia 735]

This isn't just a matter of "Oh I have them in local, I deserve to kill them". Even if you can see them and have them targeted they can still kill themselves and you gain nothing. 

 

Let me use last night as an example. I was on the HoTA (Hunt of Ancients) looking for a pillar, I run into a JK in local, he runs down the hill seeming to expect me to be behind him instead of in front. I see him come over the ridge in front of me only 5 tiles away, I target him and just as I move in closer for a fight. Boom, dead. Only 2 tiles away from me, instant. 

 

This timer I would suggest to be 3-5mins.

 

 

Ok I agree then..... if you have them targeted and are in combat with the player who is committing suicide they should be but on a timer of some kind.

 

Which is what something like I was saying anyhow..."So Like I said unless you are in actual combat with a player and actually have them in sight you have nothing."

 

But.......I don't agree with just because you just saw them in local chat box 80 tiles away you have any rights to said timer suggested.

 

There must be a Tile restriction on this timer as well such as the player must be within 10 tiles?  Since you said this was people suiciding right in front of your eyes within 2 tiles.  It is quite a leap from QQing about someone killing themselves 2 tiles away and asking for control of their gameplay from 80 tiles away.

 

So this must have balance as well for both players involved and is not a one way street.

 

A 30-60 second timer as long as the player is within 10 tiles and is in combat, targeted or being attacking sounds fair to me. 30-60 seconds should give you enough time to kill this person you said you almost had dead. And the restriction of having to be targetted and in Combat less than 10 tiles away should stop anyone from running away and suiciding that you almost had and would give you the right to kill them if you can and yes go ahead make a new suggestion and I will debate that one as well if it has anything like you suggested so far.

 

 Also if you plan on this New Suggestion for tomorrow when there will be more Devs and Rolf around add some options about length of timer and tiles away from you at least then you can say you gave players a reasonable choice and not just a limited poll.

 

While we are at it are there any other tactics used when you are attacking someone that lets them get away from you without killing them??  Perhaps you should ask for a blanket coverage of all things with this timer so that no more issues about not allowing you to kill them can be brought up or a problem in your PvP.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Protunia

[GroeneAppel 373]

-1

 

If people want to suicide, let them.

[Zwei 210]

After thinking about it, honestly, you win some, you lose some. You aren't entitled to every single player you find, especially when you are a drake/scale wearing sob, and if you're champ. Then welcome to hell buddy.

 

Its  a bit controlling after once you think about it, and its more or less just people crying, the most that can be done is a drop of all equipment no matter what, or ress-stones are ineffective, and maybe mag bonus is still in effect, simply so it isn't "SUICIDE! DED, NO ITEMZ"

 

-1

[Druidnature 1,118]

If you suicide you should be unable to revive for three days straight. Because the dark powers that revive you disrespect those who don't let a bloody battle unfold.

/if only this didn't cause so many more issues lol

[Nadroj 3,554]

I think it's simple enough to just make suicide have a timer instead of being instant. "You begin to attempt to commit suicide" 2 min timer.

[Pollo 146]

Can a Tri-lateral commission be formed to create the Rules, Laws, and Commandments of Sandbox PVP.  I am very confused by all the directions and requests that have littered the Forums of late and would like things to be better ordered, perhaps some sort of Sandbox PVP Code of Conduct.

 

Perhaps we can get to some form of ritualized combat between teams of equally set members wearing uniforms with stringent rules on how/when/why drake/scale can or can not drop.  All raiding to occur during Tuvatu Time, since this is likely the only timezone not represented by Wurm players.  And, registered PVP accounts with contracts signed in blood avowing that each person has one and only one PVP (premium or otherwise) account per server cluster.

 

Or maybe, just maybe you guys can go do what you always say to Freedomers, let the killing sort things out.  If someone chooses take the suicide hit rather than give an enemy champion free points, tough luck, live with it.

[Druidnature 1,118]

I think it's simple enough to just make suicide have a timer instead of being instant. "You begin to attempt to commit suicide" 2 min timer.

"You begin contemplating suicide"

Think that's the word I was looking for... >_>

Lol, the people that are saying deal with it.... How is it "right" to be denied something within reach, when the other person puts in NO effort to deny said person?

While yes, reality you could suicide I guess instead of going down without a fight. There does need to be some control in a sandbox, especially where pvp is related, but you need a fine balance. This is actually one of the good ones, that only hurts the people really abusing it, and the others "not so much."

And let's face it, back in the old days with swords ect when honor meant everything (or nothing) some warriors did commit suicide, whole villages did, for multiple reasons. But how many did when there enemy was 10 feet away about to run them through?

Without a way to "capture" a person and keep them captive, I really don't see suicide as being "realistic" as that's why many warriors back in the day did it, not just to deny there enemy the killing blow (from my knowledge of wars/fights)

Realism doesn't control wurm, not to mention it's boring. So stop chucking it into all of our sandboxes <3

[khatanka 317]

- 1

 

Dont more rules and destroying PvP and Chaos again!