Long Range Archery Nerf?

[Postes 5,282]

Just a few notes, I am still puzzled why longer-ranged archery was nerfed.  Just some notes, and rumors I heard:

 

"They don't want people to have archery battles, and want more direct combat."  

 

The problem with that is simply coordination and organization is a tactic, and people practice being that coordinated.  To me personally it takes a lot more to be organized in archery more than it does in melee.  To do archery in a large fight you have to call a target, find the target, shoot at the same time, improve all your arrows, target parts of the body.  There's a lot of coordination for a group of 10-15 players at once.

 

Here's some of the issues removing it causes:

 

1)  Shoot someone who is already running away.  If the player is targetable, by the time you right click, shoot, and the 4 seconds thats required to shoot, and the arrow to actually take flight and land.. that player is already 10-30+ tiles away.  So even if you were to get that single arrow off, you also need to rely on the 2nd and 3rd arrow that you que up to land to really damage a horse to slow it down.  Otherwise with this update you're going to constantly be chasing a few tiles, shooting, missing, chasing, missing.  It will be very hard to catch a moving running target who is doing same speed as you.  

 

2)  You inadvertently punish boat archery.  Let's say there's 13 people in 1 knarr, and 13 in the other.  You are going the same direction and speed.  You are both traveling in a linear path going the same speed, the ONLY way you can get an advantage is by shooting one another, and if a SINGLE person dies, then there's a difference in speed and one can either get away or catch the other.  Now however if you nerf that it's going to be a lot of misses and extremely difficult to kill a person in boat combat, and likely will be very difficult (if at all possible) to kill others at a maximum range.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand the nerf because as-is it's hard to shoot someone outside of targeting distance.  It sounds like what someone was complaining over is you can target, back out of range, and still shoot.  If so - just remove that function, if you can't target currently, you lose your target.  I don't see what the reasoning was behind the change, maybe a developer can elaborate.  

 

[SmeJack 5,796]

+1 revert please

[thenewcndo 528]

+1

[aleric 15]

I'm trying to reach my grand goal of 90 bowyery but what's the point of continuing in my favourite skill if high ql bows will be worthless in a few months...

 

+1 Please revert and stop nerfing archery

[Fawkes 1,567]

I'd be satisfied just having an explanation of why it was nerfed to begin with. And depending on how big the nerf was, it might separate high-skill archers from low-skill archers, which is good I guess...?

[nosfirebird 193]

I'd be satisfied just having an explanation of why it was nerfed to begin with. And depending on how big the nerf was, it might separate high-skill archers from low-skill archers, which is good I guess...?

+1

[Holar 1,484]

The biggest problem with archery is your target window stays open a full local, instead of making it harder just make it to where if you're not in direct combat with someone you lose the target in like 10 seconds.

 

#fixed

[SmeJack 5,796]

mmm I don't think I like the 10 second thing, reminds me of that melee range bug when you target a moving horse and your riding along with it trying to axe it down but because its moving or something the target keeps dropping, would be kinda frustrating having to keep targeting something a lot smaller than a horse right in front of your face every few seconds imo.

[DonAngelo 263]

+1 for revert

Good archer should be able to shoot in long distance as it was now

(Even if it involves that fix im thinking of)

Edited February 6, 2014 by DonAngelo

[Suntzu 644]

If you don't understand the nerf you should test it before freaking out about hypotheticals.

[Klaa 4,872]

If you don't understand the nerf you should test it before freaking out about hypotheticals.

 

This is Wurm, we always freak out about hypotheticals.   

[Budda 2,669]

Does anyone actually know what the change did, specifically?

[BrQQQ 2,854]

Haven't tried it yet, but the idea of nerfing long range archery is really odd. I suppose we'll notice in future pvp how much of an impact the nerf had

[Postes 5,282]

Through testing I was told people at max targeting range were having trouble hitting eachother.  

[Protunia 735]

I Got a Question...It was stated archery is more of a support role....how come you make it sound like its much more than that and is actually a major part of what you have to have to fight?

[Alec 728]

Does anyone actually know what the change did, specifically?

 

With the lack of changelogs and all the ninjaupdates, who knows right?

[Zakerak 442]

Does anyone actually know what the change did, specifically?

I'm sure nobody know. We never know what and how exactly things were changed, while we have only that mysterious and incomplete patch notices.

We can test it, we can guess, but we will never know exactly what and how were changed.

 

Off topic: Btw, it seems that light in mines is better now, thanks

Edited February 6, 2014 by Zakerak

[Hussars 511]

Does anyone actually know what the change did, specifically?

 

[...]

Off topic: Btw, it seems that light in mines is better now, thanks

So it fixed the lighting?  Nice!

[SmeJack 5,796]

I Got a Question...It was stated archery is more of a support role....how come you make it sound like its much more than that and is actually a major part of what you have to have to fight?

 

Archery really isnt a support role, its a major part of pvp and can make or break a skirmish for your team. Wurm is a numbers game and you need everyone working together in unison, there is no set roles where an archer hangs back and fires arrows while other people run in man mode for melee. Archery is the first and important step in any skirmish to dehorse your opponents and leave them at a disadvantage before converging on the enemy as one solid group and picking clear targets to take out together. If it is boat pvp then if you can archer down weaker enemy you then slow their boat speed and stand a chance at catching them at all, nothing really fun about two boats travelling the same speed never engaging.

 

Nerfing Archery is quite possibly a nerf on pvp itself since it will either mean people can get away much easier without being shot, or it will just drag out the first skirmish step for a much longer period which quite frankly can become boring and not always even result in a melee battle, more wasted arrows since super high archery could still be dreadful at the best of times thus more time imping yet another highly important part of pvp gear and thats not even only if you die, its an every encounter item.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

Does anyone actually know what the change did, specifically?

 

Well isn't that kind of a large part of the problem?

[Torgrim 403]

I don't understand the nerf because as-is it's hard to shoot someone outside of targeting distance.  It sounds like what someone was complaining over is you can target, back out of range, and still shoot.  If so - just remove that function, if you can't target currently, you lose your target.  I don't see what the reasoning was behind the change, maybe a developer can elaborate.  

 

What if this is what was fixed and Rolf calls it a long range archery nerf. Then everyone is happy I guess, should be simple to test.

[BrokenSanity 717]

Once again I don't know why Rolf keeps trying to change Archery. I really don't see anyone complaining about it. 

 

+1 revert changes, again.

[Protunia 735]

Here's another thought.....maybe he just took away some bonus for being mounted??? Like He did with Staff.

 

Is archery just as different from the ground or just from horseback and boats ( mounts ) now?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Protunia

[Stonesolid 159]

+1 to undoing any nerf to Archery. I already dodge and block every arrow shot my way why make it harder? What was the original idea behind this nerf anyway? And what was nerfed? I'm so confused.

[WhyThatPost 180]

90ql bow, 96nimble, 84 overall archery, 70 bow skill

 

http://pastebin.com/MzViJ4bL

 

iirc its 51 shots in total, 12 glances, 5 hits(Just my shots, we had like 4 people shooting at him), agaisnt a guy with 0% stamina(he didnt block any arrows, if he had stam, a shield and wasnt dumb absolutely 0 arrows would hit)

this was before the nerf

 

archery so op

omg

like

so op

its like jock always said

so strong is the bow

its redic how strong it is

absolutely crazy how strong it is

so we nerf it

 

 

 

.......right?

 

 

seriously though, where are these nerfs coming from? (the great helm change, and now this) 

Who other than Jock claims archery is broke?

I havnt seen anyone complain it was overpowered, quite the contrary, most call it underpowered 

Talk to any pvper and theyll tell you Archery is required to get kills, after all if you dont shoot horses people can just ride into the sunset

They will also tell you archery is ONLY good for horse and out-of-stamina boat commanders, because anyone with a shield and a brain will never get hit by arrows

Edited February 6, 2014 by WhyThatPost