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[Postes 5,282]

Oh my god a double sided bladed weapon can inflict harm on people!?  We need to allow a blunt metal rod to do the same!  Great logic there.  

Edited February 4, 2014 by Postes

[Kagrenac 812]

When ninja nerfs happen, people get upset.

 

Remember that thread on the wall spells?

"People cant have civil discussion because people were upset in this thread because something was ninja nerfed"(ignoring this thread that was happening at the time http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/87785-some-priest-restrictionspell-changes/)

 

Well, people could, if the feature in question was talked about first, and not just nerfed out of the blue due to whispering in Rolfs ear.

This thread is actually pretty civil compared to that one, other than the couple people who cant get over the whole Gary thing.

 

If you actual wanted civil discussion about a feature, you would make a thread.

If you want something changed with no recourse, whisper to Rolf, and then you get to say "oh people cant talk about game mechanics because they get too upset(due to them already being changed via a direct line to Rolf)"

 

Rolf needs to stop making changes based on pms in irc, and make a discussion thread about them instead. (and fix valrei)

[Madrocks 415]

 

This thread is actually pretty civil compared to that one, other than the couple people who cant get over the whole Gary thing.

 

 

What are you even talking about.

[Joemog 732]

If you stack defensive bonuses like shield of the gone or use glimmersteel plate armour it easily becomes 6 hits or more. If it's just a regular guy in normal plate armor it needs to kill in 2-3 hits to be viable considered how exposed you are and how hard it is to hit someone with a shield. Also if you get bashed you're pretty much done for.

[thenewcndo 528]

If you stack defensive bonuses like shield of the gone or use glimmersteel plate armour it easily becomes 6 hits or more. If it's just a regular guy in normal plate armor it needs to kill in 2-3 hits to be viable considered how exposed you are and how hard it is to hit someone with a shield. Also if you get bashed you're pretty much done for.

How is that still justified?

 

Your average pvper does not have glimmersteel plate and/or shield of the gone.

[Joemog 732]

It's justified by the fact that you're extremely exposed and that your enemy is mounted so can just move away. Maybe if you'd ever tried it in real pvp you'd see how hard it is actually killing someone while they are on a horse. I do agree that the boat thing is silly.

[Postes 5,282]

I have glimmersteel breastplate on from Savagescholz when you were hitting me, I was getting 40 damage wounds.  There was little absorption at all.  

Edited February 5, 2014 by Postes

[Madrocks 415]

Joemog continuing to ignore the fact that steel staffs do as much damage as a artifact. 

[Joemog 732]

With the polearm bonuses which as already mentioned only is decent in very rare situations. Artifacts aren't polearms, the damage there is constant.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Joemog

[Postes 5,282]

Sorry, very rare situations?  Please go on.  They're usable when using or against horses, and on boats.  If anything they're more easy to use than regular weapons, most PvP always has some involvement of horses or boats.  

[Madrocks 415]

I didn't say they are artifacts I said they do as much damage as artifacts.

[Joemog 732]

The boat thing is silly yeah, but beside that it's not great. It's normally just way better to kill the horses.

 

@Madrocks

The points was that with artifacts you don't need them to be mounted.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Joemog

[Gone420 609]

way better to kill horses than 2 shot people guys

 

its totally not like

you know

you can mabye

hit a horse with a longsword a couple times to bleeding/dying

and then

mabye

like

mabye

pull out the staff

and

like

do 60dmg

[Loyals 30]

Muh staffs.

[Joemog 732]

way better to kill horses than 2 shot people guys

 

its totally not like

you know

you can mabye

hit a horse with a longsword a couple times to bleeding/dying

and then

mabye

like

mabye

pull out the staff

and

like

do 60dmg

Then he can just leave the horse

[Gone420 609]

Then he can just leave the horse

leave horse or die 100%

 

but wait theres more!

Now that your opponent is on foot, instead of simply killing him in 2 hits, you will now just hit him with your staff like a 2 handed sword instead!

[Idara 66]

To say a metal rod would not do a massive amount of damage to someone on horseback does not make sense, but perhaps I'm viewing it differently.  My view is that mounted opponents would get hit w/ the end of the staff, not the side, such as a jousting situation or riders running into polearm foot soldiers.  The foot soldier wouldn't swing it like an axe, they'd plant an end in the ground as the rider approaches to let the rider's momentum take over upon impact.

 

At the very least the rider would be dehorsed and stunned, not to mention the internal injuries a direct hit would cause.

 

Boat jousting, on the other hand, while comical, doesn't seem intended.

[Joemog 732]

Leave the horse when it's at dying? WOAH GAME CHANGING!?

 

Also without the bonus it's only barely more damage than a one handed axe.

[JackBurton 903]

You go right on ahead and plant that toothpick into the ground and tell me it's going to do the same damage as a pike

[Madrocks 415]

yesterday we made a steel staff, got it to 65ql and cast FA on it, a 76 cast

 

i got Boomhauer to wack me with it while i was on a horse, was doing 32 damage wound with a ~7-8 Burn

 

now we do some simple math and times 32 by .5(50% hate bonus) we get 16, then we add that to 32, its 48 

then we times 7 by .5 and get 3.5 add that to 7=10.5

 

48+10.5=58.5=More than half of 100

 

=anyone with hatebonus and a Steel staff with halfway decent damage enchant and a ###### ql(i dont know how big of a difference 65-80ql makes but yea) 2 hitting people

 

Two hitting people with 30 med skill

 

we can repeat those numbers with .25 instead of .5 for mag bonus instead of hate bonus but i imagine it would just make it 3 hits instead of two

 

 

there should Never

Never

be a case where some one can reliably 2-3 hit someone in 80ql plate w/o Critical Hits or Artifacts

 

Boomhauer unlocked the Staff skill with the hits to me by the way.

I was getting knocked over every hit, 5 second stun=a good chance to instantly double hit someone

/thread

[Postes 5,282]

There's a difference between a metal rod and a large maul, it's called the power of torque.  

 

At most yes a polearm would be effective in against a horse greatly so because it could be pierced upwards, and killed easily.  But the idea of a metal rod being shoved into a plate armored person and doing a severe would is just unrealistic to me, it's damaged is ramped from a mechanic bonus that is doing far more damage than should be intended.  It's not about an advantage or disadvantage - anyone right now, MR, JK, BL, could pick up the staff and train it - but people wacking another for 50dmg+ and ending fights so fast isn't fun.  

Edited February 5, 2014 by Postes

[Joemog 732]

You're right on that, the appearance of the steel staff should be made more awesome.

[Idara 66]

You go right on ahead and plant that toothpick into the ground and tell me it's going to do the same damage as a pike

 

I'm actually surprised to hear the other polearms don't do more damage to mounted opponents.

[Joemog 732]

Indeed, go +1 my suggestion where the other polearms are getting buffed!

[Postes 5,282]

You don't think then it's slightly odd the ingredient needed to make two other polearms is doing significantly more damage then those?  It's not about nerfing something into the ground, it's about making sure that the damage is balanced to others fairly.  Boat combat shouldn't even have staff bonus applied and yet it does, it's clearly a mechanic with some bugs.  All that was asked to Rolf was if it was designed to have mounted bonus, he said he would look into it, and evidently it doesn't.  I don't really think it would be all too effective as a halberd or spear myself realistically, but in the end I think people again will use any advantage plausible if it gets them kills.  

Edited February 5, 2014 by Postes