Remove useless traders form game

[MarkSilard 194]

Playing on Deliverance and seen that traders across island have no money at all, sometimes few iron coins. They offer only few usable items and calculating price when exchange items with traders is pain in ass. Earning some money in game is possible only by selling corpses and some cheaper objects  at settlements token. Possible to earn something by doing some jobs for old players  which have money, but its rare thing and  newbies cant provide them with quality  products so no good for new players. So I think traders are useless in game. Some items like 'settlement form' or 'personal merchant contract' could be selling at token too because cant exchange items for them, traders say they require whole amount in coins. That's the reason traders should be removed from game.

[Miretta 1416]

...they dont have any coins, because someone already has taken them from them....its like closing grocery stores just because someone bought all the stock.....

[Pollo 146]

lol before lol

[Kegan 3925]

Traders do give change now no matter how much coins they have and they are the only thing that keep the economy going really without trader income players would just make their own stuff or at least most of it for sure.

 

Edit: oh you mean trading items for items has to be exact.. well most of the time you can get the same item you would be "trading" for from players much cheaper anyway.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Kegan

[silakka 2360]

i was also upset when my sassafaras didnt sell as I planned

Just find another way to make money.

Those traders are for people who want settlement forms / rods / contracts

[Radni 1089]

I would add that on FREEDOM traders are broken heavily. On EPIC they're perfectly fine, giving everyone equal gains, without traders in epic alot of deeds would have to go down.

[ShadowRonin 407]

Or create what you need to survive, and build a marketable skillset like is intended for a "wilderness survival game."  I did it, it helped me get more entertainment out of the game.

[Aeris 3927]

I'm amused by the fact that this thread even exists. Traders have strayed a bit far off their grid.

Traders are supposed to sell uncraftable items such as settlement forms and shaker orbs while contributing with a small amount to upkeep. They're not useless if you can't drain them, they still sell what they're supposed to be selling.

[Protunia 735]

I would add that on FREEDOM traders are broken heavily. On EPIC they're perfectly fine, giving everyone equal gains, without traders in epic alot of deeds would have to go down.

 

 

LOL!  yeah ok all those locked up Traders are working just fine on Epic. 

 

Anyhow Rolf knows there are faults with the system he just hasn't figured a way to fix em without causing major deed loss and player loss on all severs.

 

I suppose someday there will be changes, but I wouldn't hold my breath for anything in the near future.

 

The change for players to sell things at the token was put in to help some people gain some coins just recently.

 

The real question is how many Traders on Freedom Severs are funding deeds on Epic?!!

Edited January 27, 2014 by Protunia

[Blazer 566]

No traders means no deeds,no merchants which leads to 0 economy and end of wurm.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Blazer

[bp1986 173]

I am all for removing traders from the game and shifting the money sink items (deeds, sleep powders, shaker orbs, ect) to tokens for purchase. We have selling to tokens for small coins already. I would love to see this expanded to digging (or mining) up random coins (up to 20i), butchering corpses that contain coins (up to 1c*, based on animal strength) and maybe buff up pray rewards.

 

*if killed by a deed guard or tower guard, the guard takes the coin and does not add to upkeep.

[JackBurton 903]

LOL!  yeah ok all those locked up Traders are working just fine on Epic. 

 

Anyhow Rolf knows there are faults with the system he just hasn't figured a way to fix em without causing major deed loss and player loss on all severs.

 

I suppose someday there will be changes, but I wouldn't hold my breath for anything in the near future.

 

The change for players to sell things at the token was put in to help some people gain some coins just recently.

 

The real question is how many Traders on Freedom Severs are funding deeds on Epic?!!

 

Do you even have a clue how many traders there are on Epic?

 

JUst tell me how many traders there are in just one kingdom. Please, enlighten the rest of us on how you know so much about the traders on Epic.

[Marlon 303]

Or create what you need to survive, and build a marketable skillset like is intended for a "wilderness survival game."  I did it, it helped me get more entertainment out of the game.

 

Agreed.

 

No traders means no deeds,no merchants which leads to 0 economy and end of wurm.

Gross, gross over exaggeration. These things can be sold/bought through other channels if devs put their minds to it. Or a single "wurm" trader.

 

WHo knows, I agree though that traders are nothing but exploited and drained resources, people keep them for every purpose but acting as a trader, they are pointless.

But this is wurm, and the wurm forums, and if they get removed, there will be a metric tonne of tears and crying and self mutilation, because people forgot that they are playing a game, and not running a damn business for their little greeds and ego's.

 

+1 to the idea of getting rid of traders, or making them undrainable.

[Archaed 2327]

I do fail to see how traders being able to be drained or not has an impact on players without them, They see it as "free money" being given out to players who have purchased them (or if extremely lucky, found an unowned one) But realistically, they do require effort, and take several months to make back their money, several months effort in this game will have you making much more money in a lot of other ways.

 

There is the claim they aren't being used as intended which rolf himself has stated, but with a cost of 50s was the intention to not be able to make any of that back?

[Martynas5 441]

How about economy if there is not "bonus" coins flowing in from trader drainers?  Not talking about gold sellers..

[Arronicus 733]

No traders means no deeds,no merchants which leads to 0 economy and end of wurm.

No traders means less deeds. You can pay for a deed through selling to the token. No economy in wurm, and no deeds, is certainly not the end of the game, it would simply be a large setback. You don't -need- an economy to build a castle, to go raiding, to do enchants, to explore and adventure, to dominate monsters, tame beasts, and undertake large projects with your friends. An 'economy' is not fundamental to the enjoyable parts of the game. Don't get me wrong, I don't want there to be less deeds, but if traders didnt generate coin so that you could sell to them, this definitely wouldn't be the end of wurm like you claim.

[rixk 831]

No traders means less deeds. You can pay for a deed through selling to the token. No economy in wurm, and no deeds, is certainly not the end of the game, it would simply be a large setback. You don't -need- an economy to build a castle, to go raiding, to do enchants, to explore and adventure, to dominate monsters, tame beasts, and undertake large projects with your friends. An 'economy' is not fundamental to the enjoyable parts of the game. Don't get me wrong, I don't want there to be less deeds, but if traders didnt generate coin so that you could sell to them, this definitely wouldn't be the end of wurm like you claim.

May be the case on epic servers, but on freedom economy is main motivator for people to do things.

[Blazer 566]

No traders means less deeds. You can pay for a deed through selling to the token. No economy in wurm, and no deeds, is certainly not the end of the game, it would simply be a large setback. You don't -need- an economy to build a castle, to go raiding, to do enchants, to explore and adventure, to dominate monsters, tame beasts, and undertake large projects with your friends. An 'economy' is not fundamental to the enjoyable parts of the game. Don't get me wrong, I don't want there to be less deeds, but if traders didnt generate coin so that you could sell to them, this definitely wouldn't be the end of wurm like you claim.

 

 

Well you see, now only way to get a deed is from a trader. Also I'm not the one who has 1000 traders on all servers, I'm having my own business. But that will affect my business too since most of the money I get from people are made on traders.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

I do fail to see how traders being able to be drained or not has an impact on players without them, They see it as "free money" being given out to players who have purchased them (or if extremely lucky, found an unowned one) But realistically, they do require effort, and take several months to make back their money, several months effort in this game will have you making much more money in a lot of other ways.

 

There is the claim they aren't being used as intended which rolf himself has stated, but with a cost of 50s was the intention to not be able to make any of that back?

Actually, they're pretty much free money fountains for those who managed to secure them. Maintaining them requires a little bit of work but the shares of the recirculated cash you can grab can be pretty significant if done right.

The idea is that traders are meant to recirculate cash to players as well as sell the non-craftable items. Before the trader change they came with all size 10 village deeds, but after the deed overhaul Rolf had to figure out how to give players access to them and likely just put them on sale for an arbitrary 50s, as a convenience utility. The idea that they're an "investment" with returns for 50s has taken root in the community (the "investment" idea was surely never intended), and nowadays that's mostly what they're used for. So the cash re-circulation still works, but not optimally. Rolf probably wants to change this, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an overhaul any time soon.

Edited January 28, 2014 by EliasTheCrimson

[KanePT 698]

Actually, they're pretty much free money fountains for those who managed to secure them. Maintaining them requires a little bit of work but the shares of the recirculated cash you can grab can be pretty significant if done right.

The idea is that traders are meant to recirculate cash to players as well as sell the non-craftable items. Before the trader change they came with all size 10 village deeds, but after the deed overhaul Rolf had to figure out how to give players access to them and likely just put them on sale for an arbitrary 50s, as a convenience utility. The idea that they're an "investment" with returns for 50s has taken root in the community (the "investment" idea was surely never intended), and nowadays that's mostly what they're used for. So the cash re-circulation still works, but not optimally. Rolf probably wants to change this, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an overhaul any time soon.

It is an investiment, you only get returns from traders after several months. In fact it takes longer than the average life time of most deeds to get return from a trader. And yeah, i do agree its a broken mechanic, i do own a few, but i'll admit to that.

[Ricowan 199]

May be the case on epic servers, but on freedom economy is main motivator for people to do things.

 

No it isn't.

[rixk 831]

Yes it is

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

For some people I suppose it is. Accumulating wealth is in itself considered both a goal and continual reward by some players in most games that feature any sort of mock cash. Wurm probably wouldn't end without the silver re-circulation (I.E traders removed), but I'd be preferable if any future fix could leave other aspects of our current economic structure largely intact. Finding a new distribution method for re-circulated silver would be an option I'd like to see investigated.

Edited January 28, 2014 by EliasTheCrimson

[Anders 30]

Traders or no traders the game can still exist, it would just be on a different playing field. The way I see it, there are a number of factors to be considered

 

1) Less deeds overall. People who invest in the traders tend to have more deeds than people who don't. This is especially the case with the increased pricing of the game. However, this also means less income from the placement and upkeep of deeds.

 

2) Traders cost 50s a piece. This is another significant income for the game, especially if you consider people do come and go and some of those traders will disappear as a result.

 

3) Arguably, the money that leaves the game at this point comes from the gold sellers within the game. Buying gold from them means the buyer of the gold doesn't buy money through the game's website. This money sold to players often comes from the milking of traders.

 

I know there are other factors but these just come to mind for now. Without traders there would be less income from deeds and traders planted but more income coming in from the actual store due to less people selling gold in game. The real question is how much would it affect money going in and out of the game if there were no traders?

[KanePT 698]

Not again, this was discussed ad nauseum last year, lets not start this crap again.

Truth is without money from traders the game would die pretty quick, most of the biggest deeds would disappear because without a trader to help out with the upkeep costs it would be prohibitive to run.

Rolf said it himself when he added the Sell function. There's an excess of silver on the kingdom coffers. So i doubt he's losing money from traders per se.

And if people buy gold from others (and you'd be surprised how much more money you can make without a trader -  i bought my first trader topped up my deed, and still managed to sell back 1 gold coins from coin i did working for other players), its because Rolf decided to allow it. He could easily prohibit it and ban all accounts that sold coin (easy enough to check for in the logs).

Rolf said it himself, its not working quite like he wants it, but he also doesn't want to stop money flow in the game, and yes, the game would die pretty fast without that circulation of money.