Bronze and Brass need a purpose.

[Vroomfondel 1128]

First I want to be sure no one thinks I'm asking for metallurgy to be easier, I'm not.  But to grind the skill for steel, we all first do bronze and brass until we get some skill, then switch to steel only.  The problem then is what to do with all that bronze and brass.  Sure, there are many things you could make from them, but in most cases you can also make these items from iron.  And iron is more salable, as it is easier to get the metal to reimp later on.  I think we need some more important, useable items that require only those metals.  This would make grinding metallurgy have more of a purpose in the early stages, and more items to craft just means more ways to gain smithing skills.  As long as the new items aren't unbalancing to the game I don't see a reason for someone to object.  So, anyone have particular ideas of items that only use those metals, and would not unbalance Wurm?

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Weapons and shields are an obvious option. Bronze weapons makes sense, brass perhaps less so, but providing those variants with very small bonuses may make them worthwhile to some. As a niche thing, either for people with means to re-imp these or those seeking to look more unique.

There's a lot of potential in the ornamental department. Right now we have certain lamp types requiring brass or bronze, but we could throw certain statues, statuettes and other decorative items that may not exist yet into the mix. This may not create a constant market demand for these lumps but it'd be something to put them to use for.

Jewellry smithing also comes to mind. Right now people make masses of rings and necklaces for sacrificing. If a metallurgist could hand the brass/bronze lumps to a smith to make saccing items of with a reasonable price (less than gold and silver, obviously), then there'd be a recurring use for those metals.

Edited January 27, 2014 by EliasTheCrimson

[Farkas 27]

Maybe gold could be changed so that it's super rare, and bronze and brass could be more reliable metals for altars and such.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Farkas

[Battlepaw 584]

I think I put up a telescope idea up, that uses glass lenses.  Works like a spyglass, except is a bit more powerful and can't be used unless its planted.   The QL would determine the view distance, and I guess rarity would add bonus points to that distance.   

 

•   Decays slowly when planted, and works like a sign, so that deed owners can plant one and let guests use it, the guests obliviously can't pick them up.    
  

 

Construction:

 It's created by several copper components, shafts for the tripod and several glass lenses.  lens is created from glass, uses .30 weight.   This works off of your alchemy skill, that is assuming we don't want to add a new sub-skill, glassblowing.    To make a lens you take a lump of glass with the required weight in it and use it on a grindstone.   This gives you a creation option for lens.    

 

The copper components are:  Copper Gear x5, Copper Tube x1, Copper ribbon x1  Each of those are made from lumps of copper on a small anvil.    

 

it takes three shafts as well.   

 

The total weight of this will probably be a bit staggering, but thats how it is.  It is a very powerful object and shouldn't be able to be portable like a spyglass.   I'd say around 50 weight or so.  You would normally want to put this thing in a cart or something, not carry it on you.   

 

 

When you set it up you have to plant it, the plant timer would be around a minute or so to make adjustments, etc.    Then you can right click on it and hit use- and zoom level    It would displace a distance meter, and three zoom levels, near, med, far.   This just adjusts perspective.  

 

Uses:  The uses of this thing are rather interesting.  It would allow for a bit of an overwatch team to watch out from enemies at a greater distance, or for hunters looking down on their land trying to spot new prey.    It would also be used much like the spyglass at seiges for helping to range in catapults, though would honestly be a bit overkill for that. 

 

This does not take away from the utillity of the spyglass, at it is still portable, and the telescope is not, other than in the fact you can pick it up.    It gives a use for good copper.   

[Cerber 103]

+1 to more uses for those so i can get rid of what i have stored

 

i thought about peal of bells, with bells of different ql playing different sounds

with a small interface to let us play it in any order we want, we could make wurm music

[Aeris 3925]

I'm all for a bit of love to the alloys!

[KanePT 698]

I think I put up a telescope idea up, that uses glass lenses.  Works like a spyglass, except is a bit more powerful and can't be used unless its planted.   The QL would determine the view distance, and I guess rarity would add bonus points to that distance.   

 

•   Decays slowly when planted, and works like a sign, so that deed owners can plant one and let guests use it, the guests obliviously can't pick them up.    

 

Construction:

 It's created by several copper components, shafts for the tripod and several glass lenses.  lens is created from glass, uses .30 weight.   This works off of your alchemy skill, that is assuming we don't want to add a new sub-skill, glassblowing.    To make a lens you take a lump of glass with the required weight in it and use it on a grindstone.   This gives you a creation option for lens.    

 

The copper components are:  Copper Gear x5, Copper Tube x1, Copper ribbon x1  Each of those are made from lumps of copper on a small anvil.    

 

it takes three shafts as well.   

 

The total weight of this will probably be a bit staggering, but thats how it is.  It is a very powerful object and shouldn't be able to be portable like a spyglass.   I'd say around 50 weight or so.  You would normally want to put this thing in a cart or something, not carry it on you.   

 

 

When you set it up you have to plant it, the plant timer would be around a minute or so to make adjustments, etc.    Then you can right click on it and hit use- and zoom level    It would displace a distance meter, and three zoom levels, near, med, far.   This just adjusts perspective.  

 

Uses:  The uses of this thing are rather interesting.  It would allow for a bit of an overwatch team to watch out from enemies at a greater distance, or for hunters looking down on their land trying to spot new prey.    It would also be used much like the spyglass at seiges for helping to range in catapults, though would honestly be a bit overkill for that. 

 

This does not take away from the utillity of the spyglass, at it is still portable, and the telescope is not, other than in the fact you can pick it up.    It gives a use for good copper.   

I'm guessing we should postpone this one until bridges come out. I mean from what i've gathered you'll need to survey the area for the bridge more or less like modern topographers do. So you'll need a surveying device (i don't know the name of the device in english), which probably will fit this description pretty well (should allow to count tiles, needs to be planted, might be made of brass).

 

Also there's already a pretty good outlet for brass and bronze, in the form of lamps. Reimping isn't usually a issue, since buyers will usually put them on deed where they don't take damage.

 

But yeah, more stuff is always good stuff IMO, as long as it makes sense.

Edited January 27, 2014 by KanePT

[Arronicus 733]

I'm favourable toward bronze working its way into weapons and armor in some usable fashion, perhaps in the form of lighter weapons and armor, that slow the user down less than regular iron chainmail, or requiring less lump to imp with. Brass.... brass is trickier. Doesn't make a lot of sense other than in optics, bells, and lighting. Could always bring up the effectiveness of brass lighting, especially underground since the lighting in mines changed. I do love the new lower lighting, I think it really adds to the atmosphere of mines, but for those that want brighter lighting, or perhaps slower fuel burn.

[KanePT 698]

I'm favourable toward bronze working its way into weapons and armor in some usable fashion, perhaps in the form of lighter weapons and armor, that slow the user down less than regular iron chainmail, or requiring less lump to imp with. Brass.... brass is trickier. Doesn't make a lot of sense other than in optics, bells, and lighting. Could always bring up the effectiveness of brass lighting, especially underground since the lighting in mines changed. I do love the new lower lighting, I think it really adds to the atmosphere of mines, but for those that want brighter lighting, or perhaps slower fuel burn.

I had an idea but it won't ever see the light of day, would be a replacement for rares, brass and bronze could get used there. But its way to complex, and i doubt most players would agree with it. I might put it in writting on the suggestions forum someday.

[Klaa 4871]

More usage for the alloys is always welcome. For example I loved when the brass hanging lamps were added.

[JackBurton 903]

The armors may use the bronze perhaps. Like the scale and splint.

 

As for brass, the only thing I can think is to use it in locks and possibly maybe incorporate it into the catapult and any other siege machines in the future on the gears maybe? Of course, locks being made of iron right now have dual purposes, saccing and securing things, but maybe have brass locks provide some extra protection against lockpicking.

[Chlodovech 246]

I think in extension to this that metals (and rocks) should be made like wood. All have some different characteristics but you can do everything with it you can do with the other metal sort.

[Cerberus 255]

maybe make seryll an alloy we can make using metallurgy? the limited lumps has made all that armour sort of pointless. how long can anyone expect to maintain ql before all lumps have been used up?

[Jenshiye 146]

Weapons and shields are an obvious option. Bronze weapons makes sense, brass perhaps less so, but providing those variants with very small bonuses may make them worthwhile to some.

 

We went through the bronze age before the iron age for a reason. Otherwise, agree on jewels, ornaments and for adding aesthetics to things (new textures)

[Pollo 146]

We went through the bronze age before the iron age for a reason. Otherwise, agree on jewels, ornaments and for adding aesthetics to things (new textures)

Bronze is superior to pure iron for most applications.  Iron is much more common, but it took Man a while to learn how to smelt it to use it properly.  The relative rarity of copper and tin made iron far more cost effective once consistant smelting temperatures could be reached.

 

Edit:  And of course, more things to make in Wurm is always welcome, the alloys have always seemed like a very underdone segment of the game.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Pollo

[Serpentarius 186]

We went through the bronze age before the iron age for a reason. Otherwise, agree on jewels, ornaments and for adding aesthetics to things (new textures)

And the reason was that cheap heavier iron weapons and tools were a lot easier to mine ore for and faster to forge than the complex, expansive and highly superior alloy known as bronze. It's basically the prehistoric VHS versus BETAMAX (or HD DVD versus Blueray). The best quality product doesn't always win.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Serpentarius

[Plebian 89]

And the reason was that cheap heavier iron weapons and tools were a lot easier to mine ore for and faster to forge than the complex, expansive and highly superior alloy known as bronze. It's basically the prehistoric VHS versus BETAMAX (or HD DVD versus Blueray). The best quality product doesn't always win.

The expense of the bronze blade was for sure a problem, but iron working was really in its infancy when bronze working was at its peak. So it was very likely they were near equal for a good bit of time. Iron as it was learned to be worked into steel vastly outclassed any bronze weapon and basically killed off bronze as a useful blade. Bronze also work hardens very quickly so its use as a weapon was always less than ideal. The trip hammer and its ability to allow steel production is what killed off bronze for good.

 

Bronze is in no way a superior alloy to steel(which is obviously the iron alloy). Almost any alloy is better than its base metal(hence why you produce an alloy). Copper is inferior compared to bronze for cutting edges. As iron is inferior to steel for cutting edges. However to suggest bronze is a superior alloy compared to steel for edged weapons is just nonsense.    

[Plebian 89]

If we are talking in game use. It would be very nice if bronze had almost no decay from "weathering". Bronze can naturally produce a protective oxide coating. Which makes it ideal for use in marine environments and certain outdoor applications. It would be nice if this was modeled in game as well.

[Serpentarius 186]

Bronze is in no way a superior alloy to steel(which is obviously the iron alloy).

 

Yes but we are talking about iron weapon versus bronze here, not about wootz or damascus steel. Even the "steel" weapons the romans and the chineses were producing from -400BC to later were just a small amount of steel on the edge a basic iron weapon.

 

Edited January 27, 2014 by Serpentarius

[Plebian 89]

Yes but we are talking about iron weapon versus bronze here, not about wootz or damascus steel. Even the "steel" weapons the romans and the chineses were producing from -400BC to later were just a small amount of steel on the edge a basic iron weapon.

 

Yes. The Norse iron workers did much the same thing with their axes. The small insert of precious steel on the edge made a superior weapon over bronze. This evolved later into the intricate pattern welding processes for the classic "viking" one hand sword. This made the "iron" weapon superior in all facets but corrosion resistance.

 

This is sorta drifting outside of the thread subject tho.

[Farkas 27]

What about adding pewter, which could me used to make jugs and bowls as an alternative to clay. (Pewter = tin)

[Wox 1477]

Agree that we need more Bronze and Brass items in the game

[KanePT 698]

Agree that we need more Bronze and Brass items in the game

Bronze, brass, silver and gold hanging chandeliers that can be fixed on the ceeling. (Just remembered this one from terraria).

[Wox 1477]

We have talked about lamps(items) hanging from ceilings for a long time! But we haven't had any time playing with it :/

Things like that will probably be added when we start to implement the ability to attach objects on house walls sometime in the future.

[Hussars 511]

We have talked about lamps(items) hanging from ceilings for a long time! But we haven't had any time playing with it :/

Things like that will probably be added when we start to implement the ability to attach objects on house walls sometime in the future.

Mayhap Soonâ„¢?