Armor Rebalancing

[Fawkes 1567]

Making steel is the Wurm equivalent of chewing broken glass, and the lack of variety in armor choices makes for some very boring "tactics." So this thread is devoted solely to rebalancing armor options and making lighter armor viable, without all the off-topic noise that we've seen in some of the other recent PvP threads.

 

This is meant to be a discussion thread rather than a simple suggestion thread. I'm not really looking for you to +1 or -1 this post. Instead, I've compiled a list of different suggestions people have made and added a bit of my own commentary on top of it. There are a number of different ways armor could be rebalanced, and the best solution is probably a combination of things, some of which may not even be included here.

 

With that said, there are a few main balancing points that people seem to focus on:

 

 

Mobility

 

Lighter armor = faster movement speed. This is the current system and it theoretically can make some difference, but its uses are limited and one good shield bash can get you killed. And a good majority of the time, you are more useful to your group when you are actively doing damage as opposed to running around trying to avoid getting hit.

 

On grass or mycelium, this extra movement speed is minimal (1.5km/h difference between studded and plate). Part of this is due to the use of great helms, which are an absolute necessity in PvP and also take a major toll on your movement speed. 

 

Additionally, because of ping issues, you can appear to be very far away from your enemy while still being engaged in combat, making this "skirmisher" style of gameplay rather clunky and unintuitive. And even if you do manage to make it work, your enemy will still have just as much of a chance to hit you as you have to hit them, which makes 1v1's impractical in most situations.

 

A few possible mobility changes:

• Scale the effects of shield bashing based on armor. Those in lighter armor can get back on their feet more quickly and/or are more capable of dodging shield bashes.
  
• Add lighter helmets or masks that protect the face so people don't have to rely on heavy, movement-crippling great helms.
  
• Increase the differences in movement speed for different armor types (though there is only so much you can do in this regard)
  

 

 

Offense vs. defense

 

This would involve adding some sort of offensive bonus to people with lighter armor, while leaving heavy armor for the people who prefer to have some extra protection. One potential downside of this could be that people bring two sets of armor and instantly switch once they're targeted, so if lighter armor is made better for offense, there might have to be a timer for armor swapping with enemies in local.

 

Potential offensive buffs for light armor:

• CR bonus
  
• Faster swing timers
  
• More damage
  
• Less penalty for dual-wielding
  

 

 

Archer vs. melee roles

 

Some have suggested that lighter armor be made more useful for archers and heavy armor be more suited for melee fighters, with the intermediate armors providing a balance between the two. This opens up the opportunity for more defined roles, rather than the archer/cavalry/infantry hybrid that we currently have.

 

As with the offensive/defensive section above, this could create the issue of people quickly swapping armor types during fights, so some sort of restriction on armor switching would have to be in place. Also, archery currently has only a few uses: shooting out horses, spamming arrows at boat captains, and killing newbies who don't know how to block. Because of this, most people probably would not specialize in archery as a combat role until archery is made more viable as a primary source of damage.

 

Potential archery tweaks would include an accuracy or speed modifier based on armor type. Heavily-armored archers would be punished whereas lightly-armored archers would be noticeably more effective than they are now. However, as we saw with the recent change to great helms, putting hard restrictions on people tends to be pretty unpopular. So if we go this route, full plate archery should only be made less effective, not impossible.

 

 

Rock-paper-scissors glance rates

 

This was the focus of the most recent armor tweaks. Your armor type dictates how often different attack types glance off of you. And while it might give people a bit of an incentive to use something other than longswords, this on its own does almost nothing to change the armor that people use. Your chain armor may make 60% of the opponent's slashes glance, but the 40% that do hit are going to leave you hurting more due to your lower damage absorption, leading to a net loss in survivability. I think the rock-paper-scissors change is a good idea, but it's more centered around weapon variety than armor variety.

 

 

Other stuff

• Shields need to be reworked as well. People claim that the only difference is the arrow block radius, but beyond that, they all seem to function the same. The change could be something as simple as making attack speed and block rate vary based on which shield you're using, or making large shields better at blocking arrows while small shields are better at blocking melee weapons due to their maneuverability. Any change would be more interesting than no change.
  
• I've seen it suggested that lighter armor make stealth more useful. The stealth system currently is unreliable and it doesn't offer a whole lot aside from the ability to hide in mines, but I think with a little development it could lead to some interesting tactics. Lightly-armored people could act as scouts or set up ambushes as an alternative to the guns-blazing cavalry charges into enemy territory that we're so used to seeing.
  
• Some people have said that plate should remain the all-around best armor type because of the extra effort required to make it. However, because armor is never really destroyed, the supply of plate on the server is constantly getting more and more saturated. It eventually became fairly easy to supply a village with plate. Additionally, because most players seem to prefer to play defensively, there will still be demand for plate even if armors are balanced. These changes are simply for those of us who prefer variety and want to try different playstyles.
  

 

Again, I'm not saying we should add all or even most of these suggestions. I'm just posting this list as a jumping-off point for people to have a more in-depth discussion on armor balance. It's not enough to simply tell the devs "make leather and chain better"; there are a variety of ways to do this and I'd like to see if we can come to some sort of agreement about how it should be done.

[JackBurton 903]

I think this is a good start. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to respond properly. Going to hold this spot for an edit at a later time.

 

EDIT:

 

I like a lot of what you proposed. Just a few changes in my mind.

 

Instead of decreased swing timers for lighter armors, increase the swing timer for the heavier armors. We can already get like a 3s swing timer with certain weapons made of certain materials. I'd rather trade off offensive capabilities when you wear a heavier armor and make cloth armor be the basis for swinging times.

 

As for archery, I'd rather see the removal of the head/face shot out of the drop down menu. Even the best archers in the world would still aim for center mass instead of taking the chance of missing with an aim to the face. I don't care if someone spent the three days it takes to grind archery to 80+, it's just unrealistic to believe that face shots can be had that often, at those distances. Maybe...MAYBE, if a short bow was used and at proper distance.

Edited January 21, 2014 by JackBurton

[alaskanbob 225]

Yes.

[KanePT 698]

Although i agree with you, the problem is deeper than that, and boils down to a ancient combat system that makes no sense in a true PvP environment.

That, allied to the high latency we get in wurm, voids the whole pvp experience IMHO.

 

So, instead of doing what Rolf did this last week which is to start from the top and fix basically nothing. The whole combat system needs to be redone ground up.

 

Also i'd suggest some other things:

- Stop people from being able to change gear within enemy range (same range that keeps gates and doors open to prevent escapes);

 

- Add a new inventory slot for ranged weapons, this makes archery a bit more useful on PvE as well as PvP, by allowing to switch to melee weapons when in melee range.

 

- Add limiters to melee weapons used with bow equipped. Either add a similar limit as using shield (disallows equipping large weapons (2 handers), so that for instance you can't have 2h weapon and a bow, or shield and a bow. Or Keep the weapon freedom, but add a damage penalty for having both melee and ranged weapons equipped. This way there would be true freedom of roles, with multi-tasker skirmishers being able to go ranged and melee, and specialized fighters getting more damage out of that. Small weapons could bypass this penalty. (Making short sword more viable)

 

- Add Weapon+ armor synergies or penalties. Like a sorceror/priest wearing all cloth+staff would get faster cast time and a channeling bonus. A archer wearing leather/studded leather would gain a bonus to CR/Damage. Chainmail on foot with sword and shield would get CR/Damage Bonus. Plate on Horse with spears would get a CR/damage bonus by attacking on the move (think lancer knights). The same way a Plate + bow on horse should have a hard time hitting a target. But a Leather user on horse could be something like a Mongol rider and have extra neutral or bonus CR.

 

- Add CR and Damage buffs and penalties to stances depending on your gear and enemy. Would make more sense that a chain+1h weapon+shield user would go defensive, and get a massive defensive bonus, while making the user's attacks slower, but more precise. Sort of a "counter" specialist that analyses the opponent to strike true at the weaknesses. Translated to the game, defensive stance would give a extra defense bonus to using shields. Would make the user's attacks slower, but more accurate. And could gain a crit bonus, and even a extra CR bonus vs enemies with heavier armor, while equipping one handed weapons (higher bonus the smaller the weapon, making short swords useful again). While parrying and blocking you'd have more time to check the enemy's armor for soft spots.

By the same logic a Warrior in heavy armor, needs to focus less on defense, so they'd be able to use a more aggressive style and use larger weapons to overwhelm the opponent. This said, translating to the game, you'd get CR/Damage bonus while wearing heavy armor and aggressive stance. Also 2h weapons are more suited for an aggressive stance, so you'd get bonus for using it with those weapons. Also, lighter armored players would have a harder time fighting a very aggressive player with large weapons and could be overwhelmed while needing to parry every move, and could get a attack speed penalty.

Kinda stumped on what to do with normal xp.

Edited January 20, 2014 by KanePT

[Druidnature 1118]

Just to throw in here, and I may be wrong. I believe dragon hide armour already increases your attack speed.

I would love to see the other light armours a bit more valuable they currently are. I'm more of a rogue/archer/duel wield fighter then a knight. Hehe.

[Gone420 609]

Just to throw in here, and I may be wrong. I believe dragon hide armour already increases your attack speed.

I would love to see the other light armours a bit more valuable they currently are. I'm more of a rogue/archer/duel wield fighter then a knight. Hehe.

no armour changes your swing timer

 

wear a plate set and swing at at something, take off all armour and swing again, itll be the same

 

 

anyway a general +1 to the ideas here

On the topic of archery in different armours, i didn't like the no great helm change simply because of the damage of eye/face shots, or even unarmoured shots in general, one good ql arrow w/o any damage cast on it will do ~60 damage on flat land, with height bonus your looking at ~70, with a damage enchantment your looking at being one shot

I am however completely for Longer shoot timers/a accuracy nerf in heavier armour HOWEVER this would be yet another buff to drake/scale which doesnt really effect me, or anyone on Epic(as noone uses it) on chaos that might be a problem

 

I'd personally like to see studded leather having almost no movement speed penalty (i.e 16km/h on cobble or something) and chain bringing movment speed down to like 15-15.5km/h km/h on cobble, these changes along with a archery nerf to heaver armour and a shorter stun duration/hit chance might make these armours more attractive to use in at least some situations, rather than plate being king hands down, no contest(epic)

Edited January 20, 2014 by Gone420

[Kagrenac 812]

I could see the new splinted armor being used if its ever implemented as the other top armor, 5% lower damage reduction than plate(down a step), better archery abilities/slightly better movement. Will be a nice addition as you could see people using it or plate based on preference(for general brawling roles).

 

Scale I assume will end up being chain+, not quite sure why its needed

I agree with chain only slightly reducing your movement speed, as wurm chain is really very light, but it still would only be used as a newer players armor, but be at least slightly better.

 

Studded leather getting only a slight reduction in speed also makes sense.

Normal leather is never really going to be useful for anything since studded exists, would just stick it to the same speed reduction as studded.

 

Cloth will never be pvp viable, but its fun.

 

We do need more face armor of various types

 

Remove longbow on horseback.(Maybe)

Remove aim at face/eye

Increase timers for heavier armors archery, reducing accuracy wont really do much as people will just grind to the new point(archery is crazy easy to grind)

 

 

Scale the effects of shield bashing based on armor. Those in lighter armor can get back on their feet more quickly and/or are more capable of dodging shield bashes.

Definitely, as well as a general nerf to repeated shield bashing.

 

Would have attacks of opportunity happen for swapping armor, rather than a timer, ie swap your breastplate for a leather one, possibly trigger attacks and get hit while unarmored.