Fight Skill from Alt accounts clarification

[MetalDragon 1,630]

This post is edited with the following note by Rolf:

 

There is overkill code in place, preventing skillgain from alts after a while from the same character so this post and the whole thread contains a lot of speculation. We need feedback from those who try to harvest skill from alts on whether they notice reduction in skillgain after a while and how effective it is. It is of course annoying to see in kill logs but the idea is that there should be obvious diminishing effects. That said, we may decide to change it but I want verification that it's broken first, not worries and speculation. You do destroy the alt account a bit even if it's fairly easy to gain the skill back from creatures.

-----------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Hearing a lot about folks farming alts for FS on Chaos, specifically for fight skill rather than affinity farming. Now I don't want to miss a window of opportunity as I generally do.

 

Could a dev or more hopefully Rolf clarify if this issue will eventually be changed? if yes will those who have already reaped the juicy rewards get a skill nerf? or will we ALL suffer the penalty again?

 

If there will be no nerfs to anybody and it will be changed, then I'm just going to get right on this system now so I can catch up with those who have already got 100 fight skill.

 

 

 

If we can alt farm for fight skill can we PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE remove this stupid soft cap from fighting completely, alt farming is yet ANOTHER pay to win mechanic, while those are gimped with 70 fight skill slow gains, people can just shoot past in no time using very easy to skill alternative toons. Getting to 90 fight skill from hunting is not so bad, but the gains past 90 to 100 are a lot more difficult, when you can kill a 70 fight skill player for over 0.20 skill a death it makes hunting quite a joke.

 

Remove the soft cap, and allow us to get 100 fight skill with out the need to abuse alt toons.

 

For what it's worth I've got various toons I can abuse to get 100 fighting, and I have done tests on how easy it is to achieve 70 fighting on new accounts too.

 

 

An actual Dev clarification would be amazing.

 

Please discuss suggestion too.

 

 

 

Here are the gains you can potentially get, random selection of gains from my spreadsheet.

0.2314014

0.2298092

0.2266698

0.2235882

0.2205624

0.2175902

0.2146698

0.2117991

0.2103820

0.2089766

0.2075828

0.2062004

0.2048292

0.2034690

0.2021195

0.2007808

0.1994524

0.1981343

0.1968264

0.1955283

0.1942400

0.1929613

0.1916920

0.1904321

0.1891812

0.1879394

0.1867064

0.1854821

0.1842663

0.1830590

0.1818600

0.1806692

0.1794864

0.1783115

0.1771444

0.1759850

0.1748332

0.1736888

0.1725517

0.1714219

0.1702992

0.1691834

The numbers gained here was done by using the formula to work out how much fight skill you would get killing for killing a certain skilled player.

As you can see these are not low numbers - I could spend 5 minutes or less killing an alt 5 times, it would take me 2-3 hours or more at 90+ skill to get these gains.

 

The gains go down slightly as the alt toon looses fight skill, but it only takes 3 days hunting to get 0-70 fight skill, so replenishing the skill is SO easy, you can do it when you reach your alt killing cap.

 

I've worked out: 1x 70fs account can get your 70 fight skill account to 97 fight skill before you ruin the account to 20 fighting.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Rolf

[Redd 4,281]

-1, legit players such as myself have gained 90+ fs without alts, why should others get the easy route?

Edited January 14, 2014 by Redd

[Rolandt 825]

Fixing it now and skill nerfing those who have used it would be good, but will never happen Other than that its a sticky situation that should have been avoidied by Rolf to start with, by making it a strict rule with penalty..

[Zivirt 349]

-1, i got 90fs without alts, its not that hard 

[Rolandt 825]

I came to chaos with 40fs, now approaching 90 with just good old hunting trips(Have traded three affinities from my alt). It is supposed to be hard to gain skills that high, geesh...

[KaiH 1,126]

+1 for lifting the soft cap in some way, more liking easing it up on pve

[Derp 310]

-1, legit players such as myself have gained 90+ fs without alts, why should others get the easy route?

 

Killing alts isn't an easy route?

+1

 

People will get 90/95/100 fs and then Rolf will nerf it, just like SOTG

Edited January 14, 2014 by Derp

[AnarchistRise 320]

Why does it seam like members of JK are only capable of bitching and complaining about everything instead of just playing the damn game?

 

That being said, I agree that farming alts for FIGHT-SKILL is wrong,

but affinity trading is a somewhat acceptable practice.

Edited January 14, 2014 by AnarchistRise

[MetalDragon 1,630]

It's unfair on those folks on Freedom who are unable to slay their secondary toons that have 70 fighting to reap high fight skill gains. Removing the soft cap levels the playing field to gain the skill just as fast as those select few (right now) slaying their toons to get massive gains.

 

 

My suggestion is only IF the fight skill from alts account is allowed permanantly. If it stays then alt killing will be an additional 'pay to win/skill' system for fight skill. It will eventually be a case where you'll need 100fs to PvP as the standard requirement if alt killing is not controlled immediately. 70 is generally the standard right now because it is easy to achieve. Once folks get to 70 they will then have to pay more money for a seperate account so they can catch up their skill with those who did it easy street with alts. The more alts you can pay for the faster you can get to 100 with.

 

 

Pay to win is bad, we all know it.

 

 

@ Roland, Rolf has done fight skill nerfs i think twice in the past, the last one was because of alt farming previously. I don't want to get involved and be faced with a 30% skill reduction!! Last time that hit ALL players.

 

@ AnarchistRise, Please keep your kingdom v kingdom drama out of this, my OP didn't state specific kingdoms because various kingdoms have been doing this. This is a valid concern to prevent ANYBODY from missing out on a fantastic window of opportunity. You're a fool to think "why dont we shut up and put up while some others may be able to get some lovely bonuses for very little effort".

If you've played this game long enough you'll know not jumping on the band wagon fast enough will make you fall months behind in one little update while those who were involved are laughing.

Edited January 14, 2014 by MetalDragon

[Zazz 325]

haha

 

please remove linking from priests aswell, cause its pay to win.

[MetalDragon 1,630]

The less pay to win mechanics, the better. Though i don't think (personally) i've seen people bringing alt priests into pvp to link up? Unless it's for enchanting? in which case i thought enchanting difficulty got harder with the more linkers you had (5% each iirc??)

[Zazz 325]

its still pay to win. 

[DonAngelo 263]

 

That being said, I agree that farming alts for FIGHT-SKILL is wrong,

but affinity trading is a somewhat acceptable practice.

 

Real aff trades i see somewhat fair, but killing alts just for FS farm should simply go under "alt exploiting for personal and unfair gain" and should be forbidden.

 

And before someone complains that i have done same - no i havent. I killed one said toon for Specific affs i was after and left him with 2 affs remaining i didnt want. And i hadnt even reached 90fs. And be sure, i got enough prem toons with 70fs+ to get 99FS within a week or two.

[Libertha 145]

just make it so u can only gain fs from a character once a month, thatd help.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Libertha

[AnarchistRise 320]

believe me, I am not the oldest player but I fully understand "windows of opportunity." its game breaking and sickening, but the crusade certain people with matching forum pictures really seams less like "lets inform people" and more of "lets try and get people in trouble'

[Battlepaw 585]

You can't really blame people for killing alts, it's been going on way prior to Chaos back when it was Wild, it was reported, and just never changed.  It's sad players do it, and more sad it's allowed by the game developers.  

 

I moved my post about this from the skirmish thread, as tbh its not really the place for it.  

 

Sad or not, just how are you going to stop it?   Enforce metagameing rules?   No thank you, there has already been enough meddling in that department here.   Just how could you determine what is a valid kill?  what is simply an exchange of affinities, etc?    Hell people can change their IP easily enough, or make situations they can explain away.

 

It would greatly interfere with PvP if people would try to pick apart every fight to try to ban people.  Heck, we had enough issues just when GMs closed down a deed an instituted a non-pvp ban and someone accidentally got thwacked with an RT sword.   Instead of healing the wound the player allowed the alt to die from the wound just to claim that the death had not been accidental.   

 

I can only imagine what kind of issues will come up.  No thank you.    

[DonAngelo 263]

just make it so u can only gain fs from a character once a month, thatd help.

 

Tho then ppl would complain ofc for legit pvp kills, for missing out on FS gains.

 

But that surely would fix this issue pretty much

[Derp 310]

Get on the wagon now then, because a nerf like that like all the others would just ensure unfairness. If you read MD's suggestion it was to bring hunting up, not nerf killing alts forever keeping a skill disparity after a nerf

Edited January 14, 2014 by Derp

[MetalDragon 1,630]

It's a good job those group of folks with matching avatars who have posted in this specific topic were not sporting the Jenn-Kellon avatars, other than Don, but he's on his own.

 

 

This topic isn't about getting people into trouble, I don't really care about those who have got the cream already as I am still on par FS related with most chaos players. I just want to be able to get involved and MAX out if there is going to be no consequences to my own account. If there is potential nerfs coming down the line, then I'll sit on the side lines and wait until then.

[Libertha 145]

i would rather change it  now and whats done is done, then even more people doing it.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Libertha

[MetalDragon 1,630]

The alt killing is hard to fix with Rolf wishing to reward players with fight skill for killing other players. My advice would be get rid of the fight skill from other players system if people can not use the system properly, or make the gains so massively tiny that it would not be worth it (especially with the limited kills per day).

[bier 30]

Some things never change .....

[MetalDragon 1,630]

Updated OP with skill gain numbers per kill.

[spider 842]

how you can say please fix that kiling alts how would rolf know this who is alt and who is not alt when he have not the same ip

 

and metal all kingdoms have make that mr jk or bl on wild

[rosedragon 2,282]

Instead limiting skill gain per char idea mentioned earlier which means less reward from doing pvp, I would say that balancing fighting skillgain from players and from mobs can be fixed.. maybe something around fs skillgain from players are depending on the fs of both chars and similar like fighting greenish or champion animals on that fs level? Like, if you are fs 70+, killing greenish cat still give you very little skillgain since it is far below your fs.