rare raw resource to rare refined item.

[joedobo 1,187]

Its not that much harder to create every 20 or 30 seconds. A bin with thousands of shafts and handle, a large cart full of rafts>containers>weapon heads/blades, a forge to smelt craft stuff, another forge for when you need hot lumps. Stand in one place take stuff out of container, create, put in smelt forge to heat up, smelt....repeat.

But yea it is an advantage and I'm pretty sure the Dev are going to attempt to nerf stop-start.

 

 

BTW this suggestion is not about stop-start....

The probability of crafting a rare finished item from say a rare log and rare ore is so dismally small no one in there right mind would consider even trying. This is the reason people only consider rare's value as a refresh. If we could force a rare roll when crafting/imping with a rare and that roll chance was significantly higher then 1%, well we would see people actually trying to craft/imp with rares.

[Tavariell 15]

One important note here – we are not debating the introduction of a new system. We are considering a change to sth that is long time operational and has history.

 

You say total randomness. You say move drumrolls to the end of the action or after the creation. OK but you have to remember some of us (even this topic shows that) have stacks of rare items in their coffers. If you make rare creation totally unpredictable in 3-4 months their prices are over 20-25s a piece. I don’t mind that, really but is it what you want to achieve?

 

Ingredient creation is a perfect unless it produces the same result. If a rare tool is an effect of a long and random production cycle with around 25% success rate the effect is pretty much the same as described above.

 

No randomness you say. Then how would you get rare resources – high enough QL tools? High enough skills? Veterans would like it.

 

Now on philosophical note – I know the phrase “as Devs intended†is necessary for some reasons in all ToU descriptions but let me observe it is very totalitarian in its nature. How on Earth am I to establish what was intended by anyone? This can always be changed and used against a player – who BTW – invested some money in the game.

 

Finally:

It's sad when people argue against new ways of making rares because they'd be less rare all the while keeping stuff like this to themselves so they can keep a stronger hold on their market for them by churning them out methodically.  If they were really interested in keeping rares rare they'd be making suggestions to fix these kinds of loopholes.

 

Some detailed suggestions at the end of this topic http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/94373-again-on-rarity-issues-questionssuggestions/page-2#entry949190

 

To summ up - it is both random (rarity window as it is) and skill based. But advocates the introduction of a new skill so at least at the beginning everybody would have equal chances.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Tavariell

[Theodis 339]

This can always be changed and used against a player – who BTW – invested some money in the game.

You're paying for a service not investing in the company in any legally binding sort of way. It may be in Rolf's best interest to ensure he is providing a service that people are willing to pay for but it is totalitarian in that he has absolute control over what he is selling.

But advocates the introduction of a new skill so at least at the beginning everybody would have equal chances.

There are many ways in which people can develop their skills and produce things which they can trade. Having rares not depend on skill means that everyone has a fair chance at making them regardless if they're a newbie or not or craft in general or not. It gives newbies an even chance at making something worth trading so they can earn some money in ways other than grunt labor. If you make it skill based then once again newbies are inherently at a disadvantage and are much less likely to benefit from it as opposed to someone that's grinded the skill. I'm not sure if that was the original intent but it's certainly a nice side effect which lets more people get into the market earlier without just being consumers.

[Tavariell 15]

You're paying for a service not investing in the company in any legally binding sort of way. It may be in Rolf's best interest to ensure he is providing a service that people are willing to pay for but it is totalitarian in that he has absolute control over what he is selling.

I am sorry – probably just a misunderstanding. I am perfectly aware that Rolf is free to deliver what he wishes and design the game according to his whim. Even if I buy for 12 months in advance – this is my problem and my gamble and he can choose to change  whatever he wishes. He does not have to listen to our whining, nor even run this forum. I know all that. My argument was about sth very different.

 

I am buying service with some features and should be free to use them as I choose – unless it is an obvious bug. The ‘unintended’ argument for me breaks that rule and more over breaks one of the old Roman fundament of all democratic European legal systems - Lex retro non agit (law should not be retroactive). Too often is this argument used in gaming business. And many times I hear ‘that was unintended’ but read: ‘ops, we never thought about this consequence’.

 

To be fair I must admit that Wurm is almost free of this practice on developers side. This is players who abuse this argument to advocate their gaming style.

 

As far as newbie question is concern… I think current system still disadvantages them greatly – you have to do some serious grinding to reach decent creation chances or use someone’s help to provide you with decent QL shaft and handles (for tool production). Let’s face it - as a newbie most chances are that you end up with rare rock, clay or belladonna (worthless in the current system).