PvP easy fruits

[AnarchistRise 320]

I think the biggest problem for me and most other players is the gap that has widened on Chaos and freedom for years.  This is stuff that makes it harder for the server to grow, and get new competitive fighters.   In any case it makes it nearly impossible for a new forming kingdom with inexperienced fighters able to ever compete with any established kingdoms with fighters who have the indicted skills.

 

This is why I feel this way.   

 

1. The Meditation skill change.    The biggest issue I think that directly affect pvp is the removal of enlightenment, AND the adding of meditation skill gain as requirements to meditation.   This was done when we already had a ton of the top players with the path requirements to get shield of the gone or one of the other path abilities that greatly affect pvp. This pretty much makes it a requirement for a player to work for years even to have the ability to compete.   It eliminates the capacity for casual players even to dream about having any good mediation abilities.  It was the worst change I've ever seen in Wurm, and It created a massive gap between new players and old.  

 

 

Exactly, that was a game breaking change IMO that did not jut widen the gap, It made it impassible within the near future.

[KanePT 699]

I'm not a PvP player so my opinion will probably not matter much. Also i didn't read most of the above. But on a game with only about 30% of the players on PvP servers (last time i checked) and where PvP servers get the most attention, development and just about the same number of servers, maybe you should ask yourselves why people don't go there.

 

And i'm not exactly a carebear, i do like my RPG action, but i also enjoy competitive gaming, and play online FPS games, TPS, etc. As long as i don't get my PVE ruined by other people's PvP. For instance one of the things that irk me the most are Flag PK games where players can be around all "friendly" playing PVE, then when you're fighting that badie boss they wait for you to be running low, Kill you and then take the boss for themselves.

 

Anyhow, here's some changes that might make me want to go to PvP:

 

1) Change combat so that player actions during combat matter, and its not just about the best ql armor and enchants, and whoever stands higher or has the more friends.

Then you can count on more people being engrossed by combat. Otherwise anyone below 50 FS have barely any interaction.

 

2) Change rewards or even the whole permissions so that attacking and raiding deeds with no defenders has no rewards.

Then you can call this PvP, and not PvE with PK mode. Nothing turns me off PvP more than knowing that sooner or later i'd be in bed sleeping and a bunch of cowards would ride up to my deed, kill the guards and bleed it dry.

I've done suggestions for this eons ago, don't really know where to find it.

 

3) Change gear and combat styles.

Give them a Rock-Paper-Scisors kind of aspect so that every kind of combat style is not only "really great too" but just as good as the others. In other words balance the thing so that everyone isn't running around in plate, bows and sword+shield (or whatever is the current fashion).

 

4) Change how drops work.

Aside from the "raid my deed while i sleep" thing, nothing irks me more than knowing that rarely people bring their best to the fray, because even the best fighter in the game can be ganked by a bunch of others a simply DROP EVERYTHING! I mean, shy from permadeath, nothing is more deterring from people actually enjoying PvP at their best.

 

5) Tweak the Uniques

This ties in with my last one. I mean sure nowadays people are a bit too afraid to go to battle on their drake and scale stuff because they can lose it. But at the same time, its hardly fair that just because a guy started playing 3 months earlier than you (or 3 years) he got to fight a dragon and get that unique gear and other players can't (unless they pay the stupidly high prices people pay for these things). I mean, that's the LEAST balanced aspect of all PvP (and the whole game frankly). Its probably time for Rolf to man up and get on to leveling the playing field, and i know i might sound like a jealous tyke or something, but seriously, its ridiculous. Like some guy was really proud he earned several hundred euros selling pan fountains. I mean Rolf decided it was a bug, prevented people from doing it again, but instead of getting rid of it, he allows people to make ridiculous profit from this. and what's worse, i believe those are probably the only way we can actually paint big ships.

 

Anyway, that's my point of view, and opinion. At this point, as i see it, Wurm's PvP is really shy from being any sort of balanced and competitive PvP, and as such, i have no intention of playing there (and apparenty most people don't either, even those few that actually want to play wurm).

 

 

I think the biggest problem for me and most other players is the gap that has widened on Chaos and freedom for years.  This is stuff that makes it harder for the server to grow, and get new competitive fighters.   In any case it makes it nearly impossible for a new forming kingdom with inexperienced fighters able to ever compete with any established kingdoms with fighters who have the indicted skills.

This (and the rest of battlepaw's post) is basically what i meant on my 5th point.

Edited January 9, 2014 by KanePT

[Daolin 894]

(Chaos Only)

 

The playing field is just so unbalanced for anyone thinking about stepping onto Chaos, you can either join an already established giant or fight an uphill battle.

 

Majority of the suggestions made in this thread are selfish and will improve pvp for one side or the other but don't really address the actual problem.

 

Pulling a random one: Stop deed guards attacking horses - How is that going to improve pvp or make the server more desirable for someone who has never played on Chaos?  All its going to do is make it easier for those already established to steamroll anyone new.

 

That's the problem though, there is no solution that everyone will be happy with, everyone will make suggestions based on their own interests instead of that of the game.

[Marienara 43]

...

 

2) Change rewards or even the whole permissions so that attacking and raiding deeds with no defenders has no rewards.

Then you can call this PvP, and not PvE with PK mode. Nothing turns me off PvP more than knowing that sooner or later i'd be in bed sleeping and a bunch of cowards would ride up to my deed, kill the guards and bleed it dry.

I've done suggestions for this eons ago, don't really know where to find it.

 

...

 

4) Change how drops work.

Aside from the "raid my deed while i sleep" thing, nothing irks me more than knowing that rarely people bring their best to the fray, because even the best fighter in the game can be ganked by a bunch of others a simply DROP EVERYTHING! I mean, shy from permadeath, nothing is more deterring from people actually enjoying PvP at their best.

 

...

I do think that if either of these were changed it would encourage more people who play on the pve servers to try their hand and pvp. I know that the skill loss and the drop everything aspect has kept me from pvp encounters that I might otherwise have engaged in. That is why my deed walls are so thick, so I can generally ignore enemy players who come to taunt me. If I know that I am going to die, and I know that doing so means I will lose everything I have on my person, I feel no need to engage enemies that come calling if it can be avoided. No matter what you decide to change, there will be people who complain. I've played many mmos with combat, and this is the only one where I have never engaged in a pvp fight, even though I have been playing on a pvp server most of my many years. Wurm is also the only game that I know of that has such severe penalties for pvp death, and the fact that it may be difficult for some people to acquire skills and gear. I, personally, am a carpenter, not a smith, so any armor and weapons I receive are given to me or purchased. I do not like the idea of losing any of them, however, I like the idea of losing hard earned skills even less.

 

Perhaps a compromise of "drop your items but keep your skills" might be acceptable, though affinities would still be stolen. I am also of the opinion that killing enemy players should NOT result in a FS gain.

[Griffith 362]

  You,(Rolf), start a new toon, and dont say who you are of course, with no gm powers and play the game for a couple of months. And i say that with no intention of being sarcastic or facetious.

 

 Then, while playing the game, take notes of the things you see that make it frustrating to you

to pvp. Start a deed with a spirit guard too.

[RomaN 890]

The playing field is just so unbalanced for anyone thinking about stepping onto Chaos, you can either join an already established giant or fight an uphill battle

...and despite this, there are still players coming to chaos from freedom isles to play solo, forming their own freedom isles homesteads and camps.

Freedom Fort on chaos was a settlement established as freedom isles kingdom. They fought in civil war conflict against another freedom settlement who were backed by JK and some BL.

The playing field will always be unbalanced because JK and MR have been active on Chaos for years longer than newer freedom players. It's not a problem at all.

[KellyTxX 614]

Fix the fact that literally as long as you have a zerg your borderline unstoppable ;p

[AceRifle 1,223]

  You,(Rolf), start a new toon, and dont say who you are of course, with no gm powers and play the game for a couple of months. And i say that with no intention of being sarcastic or facetious.

 

 Then, while playing the game, take notes of the things you see that make it frustrating to you

to pvp. Start a deed with a spirit guard too.

[Tiu 160]

Chaos (Some of this may apply to Epic but I've never played there so I won't assume to speak for play there)

 

1. Remove res stones and the Mag bonus. Replace the functionality of both with a new spell for both WL and BL sides. This would be cast on individual items (armour, weapons and shields only), giving each item it's own chance of being retained upon death.

 

2. Alternatively, remove dropping on death all together. Not popular I know, as far as a lot of those doing the killing are concerned the "loot" is the reason for PvP. This attitude is wrong, the fun of the actual fight should be what it's about, not depriving people of their hard gotten stuff. Replace dropping your gear with generated loot on corpses, ada/glim lumps, maybe some new things to keep these kind of people sweet.

 

3. PMK's

 

   3a. Add BL PMK's (possibly change the template HotS to be a BL freedom-like kingdom).

   3b. Limit the number of deeds a PMK can own, force people to make more strategic decisions on where they need to plant a deed and defend, reduce deed spam and sprawling empires taking over the map.

   3c. Remove MR/JK templates. One WL template, let kingdoms choose a patron god on founding (or when implemented for existing) for Champ rights.

   3d. Give towers an alignment variable. Towers further than ~200 tiles from a deed edge would have their alignment decay over time, at 0 would default to No-known kingdom. Along with 3b would help prevent big sprawling empires stifling newer/weaker groups. Undeeded outposts would need to be maintained actively.

 

4. Libila spells. Give Libila counters for Nimb/Life Transfer. Possibly make Truehit a weapon cast and give Drain Health/Stam type spell for weapons (would be like BotD for weapons, less effective life steal than LT with some stam steal ability as well).

 

5. Remove/reduce skill loss upon PvP death. After item loss, I'd say the biggest obstacle for people wanting to PvP would be skill loss. I'd either remove this completely or at least reduce it for PvP.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Tiu

[Tekada 17]

Honestly, i would say Keep the gear dropping. I feel that if i kill you, i earned that loot. To follow in with this though to play fair game, remove the skill loss all together.

 

Second, i feel there should be no gains that come of kills reguarding pvp.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Tekada

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

1 make sure noobs know to disable gdsl shader and the best settings so they at least start smooth and with nice fps, its hidden on the forums now.

2 pass noobs the link to the online map of the server they start on before they ever started.

3 make a newbie cave for noobs at every starter town which spawns dogs or w/e that u can enter till 20FS

4 make the compass a no drop for the first 24 hours

5 continue on improvin the starter deeds, the more clear it is, the longer the noobs stay.

i dont pvp, but more ppl is more pvp, an enormous amount of ppl quits in the first few minutes/hours of wurm, and this is sad.

[rosedragon 2,282]

@Lorena: compass already no drop and map is in development.

 

Would agree that best suggestion is for Rolf to play the pvp as a noob... then even infiltrate one of the kingdom and see how they run.. and why they run it that way(which while argumentatively theirs culture, it is pretty much weighted by the game mechanics), join a deed for a bit, then go make your own settlement, close to frontier, see what happens..

 

Drop gears and deeds that can be demolished to zero thing... I think the main reason people would rather build their deeds on pve is that cause doing everything in wurm take a lot of sweat. And this grow attachment. It is not about the monetary value of gears or deeds, but more of this emotional attachment that give it 'I don't want to die!'.

Edited January 9, 2014 by rosedragon

[JockII 338]

rolf come join kos you'll see that small pvp isn't dead but you will also see some of the tactics that your forced to use to achieve them on home servers !

[Suntzu 644]

Look at least fix the mine hopping. You went down that path partly with the gatehouses... That is one recurring theme in posts in this thread.

 

Another major point, You cannot do anything to home servers on epic to take way anything they already have, you cant cap them now, too much backlash,  but what you can do is make elevation extremely attractive to be on by adding or changing or buffing stuff. That will help Epic even more.

 

If you look at it Epic has much much more pvp than chaos for alot of reasons. PvP on epic is ALOT ALOT more prevalent compared to Chaos.

Part of that has to do with the fact you can move around the epic cluster pretty quickly. Wild/chaos is HUGE.

It takes hours to go anywhere, that alone will always make pvp less prevalent on chaos.

 

Honestly Chaos should be reset with a new map that is easier to navigate around and engage pvp.

Chaos will never match Epic with levels of pvp as it stands now in its current iteration, plain and simple. EVER.

 

And even though epic is pvp heaven compared to chaos it could be way better.

 

IF you buff elevation to make it much more attractive without taking a damn thing from home servers you will have done alot of good there.

[Marienara 43]

Chaos (Some of this may apply to Epic but I've never played there so I won't assume to speak for play there)

 

1. Remove res stones and the Mag bonus. Replace the functionality of both with a new spell for both WL and BL sides. This would be cast on individual items (armour, weapons and shields only), giving each item it's own chance of being retained upon death.

 

2. Alternatively, remove dropping on death all together. Not popular I know, as far as a lot of those doing the killing are concerned the "loot" is the reason for PvP. This attitude is wrong, the fun of the actual fight should be what it's about, not depriving people of their hard gotten stuff. Replace dropping your gear with generated loot on corpses, ada/glim lumps, maybe some new things to keep these kind of people sweet.

 

3. PMK's

 

   3a. Add BL PMK's (possibly change the template HotS to be a BL freedom-like kingdom).

   3b. Limit the number of deeds a PMK can own, force people to make more strategic decisions on where they need to plant a deed and defend, reduce deed spam and sprawling empires taking over the map.

   3c. Remove MR/JK templates. One WL template, let kingdoms choose a patron god on founding (or when implemented for existing) for Champ rights.

   3d. Give towers an alignment variable. Towers further than ~200 tiles from a deed edge would have their alignment decay over time, at 0 would default to No-known kingdom. Along with 3b would help prevent big sprawling empires stifling newer/weaker groups. Undeeded outposts would need to be maintained actively.

 

4. Libila spells. Give Libila counters for Nimb/Life Transfer. Possibly make Truehit a weapon cast and give Drain Health/Stam type spell for weapons (would be like BotD for weapons, less effective life steal than LT with some stam steal ability as well).

 

5. Remove/reduce skill loss upon PvP death. After item loss, I'd say the biggest obstacle for people wanting to PvP would be skill loss. I'd either remove this completely or at least reduce it for PvP.

I had not thought of exchanging res stones for priest casts on individual items, but I agree it could be a good compromise. I agree with everything else in this post, especially number 5.

[Orthallon 6]

Quick response (1-4):

 

1. Improve targeting.  Either add a "tab targeting" option, or allow a menu option when right clicking a team member to 'target player's target'.  This can be especially useful on boat fights when you're stuck behind the mast.

 

2. Relative spacing on boats.  Basically, allow completion of first aid and healing spells to complete when you are on a boat.  Most of those options don't work right now if the boat is moving, even if you are adjacent to whoever you are trying to heal.  (note: it would be nice if compasses worked better on boats too - that is sort of one of their original intended uses)

 

3. End /who use as a spy/alert option.  Instead of giving numbers, change the wording to very low/low/medium/high/very high - or equivalent.  (could leave numbers for CA's or other trusted employee types who would not abuse this feature).

* this is especially annoying and prevents people from doing any kind of stealthy operations in groups of five or more.  It is really bad when you cross into an enemy kingdom without ever having seen anyone else in local, and within 10-15 minutes there is a knarr of defenders on your heels.  Metagame much?

** Forgot to include a suggestion to the "end /who use as spy/alert option", which is to add a spell which "divines" that there is a "weak/moderate/high" enemy presence within your region(2x local)/kingdom(server).  Basically an enhanced version of locate soul.

 

4. Remove/reduce priest crafting limitations.  The number of people who play priests as main accounts are so few, having more active outside of the alter tile would enhance pvp.  My suggestion is to impose a limitation where if the priest performed an action their god frowned upon, then they would lose their ability to cast spells and/or not be able to improve their faith score or link with other priests for a period of time (say a week - same time it takes to convert to a different religion).  This would allow people to play priests and still take 'sabbaticals' to work on skills/stats so that they can compete with others in combat.

 

5. Also in lines with promoting smaller group pvp (sorry this is going to be longer).. in addition to the hota event, create another type of event in which you participate in teams with a max number of players/team (say 5).  You enter another server spawning with your team but in a random start location (to prevent spawn camping), and there will be pvp based objectives or missions.  Make this available to everyone, including freedom/home servers - allow entrance via epic portals.

 

- Some other ideas I had about this type of event, which I noticed several others also mentioned same/similar suggestions:

1. On this pvp server, everyone could enter with the same stats and equivalent gear.  Skill and gear gains could be earned only in these event servers by participating there, or stats could be wiped with each event, or at the start of each scenario (or season if you will) in order to maintain a level spread.
   
2. Rewards for participation could include karma, scenario points for the gods, or whatever else would be appropriate.  At least one decent reward to take back with you would be nice, maybe an item or buff that lasts until the next event.
   
3. The server terrain and objectives could match what is going on with the Gods.  Preaching skill / dialogue could give indications of where the events may take place.
   

Thank you.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Orthallon

[Orthallon 6]

Supporting notes to consider from the perspective of someone who has been playing less than a year...

 

- I recently hit 50 meditation and became a maniac on path of insanity.  Based on my calculations, it will be at least four more months before I can get 'the gone'.  I fully empathize with the issue on Chaos, but at the same time, the current effort it requires to get it makes me feel that it is not overpowered.

- When I hear about how other players were able to gain stats via yo-yo's and more body strength from farming, and I have no chance to also get those gains, it does make me wish there was a stat reset (and normally I would be totally against this).  There certainly is an unfairness to new players though.

- Regarding home servers and CR nerf.  I don't see a need to change anything.  I have been subjected to raids and having my deed wrecked, albeit less often than if I was on Elevation.  I know where I can go for a non-CR nerf fight, and I know what I'm getting into when I raid an enemy home server.

[Radni 1,089]

Remove Res stones!

[Nadroj 3,554]

1. Change the champ system on chaos, lots of good ideas here - http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/88086-chaos-only-changes-to-the-current-champing-system-chaos-only/

2. Make changes to gank bonus as pointed out by Suntzu and Nosyt - http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/89927-reverse-gank-bonus/?hl=%2Bgank+%2Bbonus

3. Improve battlecamps, they need more exciting bonuses for controlling them and higher difficulty to take over.

4. Fix buggy catapult functionality against high slopes and PLEASE get some more siege weapons, we've been using nothing but small catapults for years.

5. Disable Farwalker amulets in enemy presence.

 

If i was allowed a couple more i'd also say lower PMK requirements, 40 is silly and allow BL PMKs.

 

Non pvp based personal note - PLEASE allow Kingdom leaders to change their titles, preferably display them differently (e.g. Chief Nadroj the Divine Warrior [Title]) - http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/87480-make-kingdom-leader-titles-work-like-champion-titles.

 

 

Bonus desire -  Please look into changes for the kingdom offices, many of them don't do anything or are almost useless, along with the way Kingdom leader titles (such as Conquering, Divine, Warrior, Saviour etc) are gained and make them actually mean something rather than just a title you got for going from 0.1% influence as a new PMK to instantly maxed out because its based on % increase.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Nadroj

[Gregory 573]

Epic suggestions

1. Remove Gank bonus

2. Remove Battle camps

3. Fix champ system

4. Add bonus/incentive for living/pvp on Elevation

5. Balance all armour and weapons types

[Suntzu 644]

 

 Suntzu and Nosyt

 

 Suntzu and Nosyt

 

 Suntzu and Nosyt

 

 

Suntzu and Nosyt

 

 

Should be implemented by default since we agree, hell Xallo and Gavin even had positive things to say about it I think. What in the name of Magranons beard is going on here!!!!

Much wow, very confus,,,

[oberion 13]

Would like to see these:

 

 

1) pit falls. (If bridges get implemented shouldn't be to hard to implement just a bridge setup requiring a 3x3 with the center requiring to be flat. Just requires it to be solid or visible for same kingdom as who planted it.  Would be good if tracking can detect them as to give tracking more use.)

2) spike traps.  (Like you would see on the ground just spikes sticking up that you could place in the pit fall that does dmg or just on the ground for both deed protection and deterrent against enemies coming into kingdom.

3) Mine defenses.    Would be great to be able to build stuff in mines to protect your passage in case enemies get into it. 

4) what most people say

5) same as 4

[Oreo 5,793]

they're just secretly all tonygreen

 

duh

[vinius 1,495]

Epic suggestions

1. Remove Gank bonus and Battle camps

2. Fix Valeri

3. Fix champ system

4. Add bonus/incentive for living/pvp on Elevation

5. Balance all armour and weapons types

I squeezed 1 more thing in

[Atlas 363]

Another opportunity to improve balance: our home server gets consistent PVP, 75% of the time it is boat vs boat Combat. Both sides, all in plate, all using bows crash into each other and mob on one target without collision detection (add boat model collision detection). Should fighters in sea warfare be wearing full plate? Is this an opportunity to add a buff for studded leather or other armors (the buff being very situational). Again you would need to add a timer for equipping/unequipping as current practice is to get naked for speed and then instantly wear full plate with a shift-drag

-Dont nerf plate but buff other armors to be useful in specific situations

-Dont nerf longswords but buff other weapons; from halberds to spears to shortswords

-Think about modifying archery so there are drawbacks or benefits to it based on the armor you are wearing and whether or not you are mounted on horseback

-mine hops are bad for PVP; everyone uses them but most admit its 'gamey' and artificial

-with the new Portals, you could remove the CR nerf as there will be more coordination between home servers and their ele kingdom mates---and enemies should have a long logout timer or not be able to logout on home servers

Edited January 9, 2014 by Atlas