Feedback request on fence stuff

[Klaa 4,872]

Long as the jumping up is within human limits (ie no Halo Spartan bunny-hopping), then Im fine with it. Especially if its tied into a stat characteristic.

 

Personally the possibilities are well worth the potential risks, which have been thought out and planned for to some degree. It opens the door for more aspects to Wurm.

 

Been playing Wurm long enough to see many "game-changing" changes, and personally they have improved things in the long run. Granted there's been a few deals I don't entirely understand/agree with.  Not allowing minedoors inside writs as one example.

[rixk 830]

I even checked if it is first of april.. -1 to flying. Wurm IMO simply isn't that kind of game.

Also -1 to remove enclosure rules(it could use some tweaking tho). This is currently the only thing, that protects newbies first steps in Wurm. Yes, you can tell, that "deed it or lose it", but that is not logical, that new players, who only try out the game and build their first places, are going to plant a deed right in the start. But during this time, when they use undeeded enclosure, their place needs protection from griefers(and here are plenty of griefers, even with current rules), as newbies losing their stuff/or place being destroyed overnight can have pretty big impact on retention rate(something which wurm can't be proud of even now). Of course on the other side of course are people, who simply use the enclosure rule for free landgrab. This should be addressed somehow tho.

Wurm GM team is group of volunteers, if they can't handle the heat, it is simply not the place to be. Newbies are being thrown to the wolves just because GM team doesn't want to handle the cases in the grey zone.

Edited January 2, 2014 by rixk

[Propheteer 7,139]

No.

 

Being completely serious, i don't care what anyone else posts as a pro here, all i see is the cons outweighing everything.

 

On chaos/epic it will change PVP drastically. It will add another unreasonable REQUIREMENT to enter into PvP for new players, so thats another reason to not play on our lowly populated pvp servers. Whereas on wild everyone is stacked with super high body stats and scale/drake farwalkers is necessary to properly pvp and on epic you need 90 enchants, x level meditation, 7 trait hellhorse, x quality plate, and now it will be a requirement to have 40-50 body control on both servers.

 

It will require people to redesign their deeds entirely and possibly have mechanics changed if it isn't prevented, which will no doubt make people quit our already lowly populated pvp servers

 

it will benefit whoever has the most people, so the most people get the sight and the numbers advantage which will no doubt make people want to convert or quit our already lowly populated pvp servers.

 

it will no longer allow beautiful small fences when people want privacy.

 

 

I have never once seen a need for jumping or flying in wurm, and I still don't see a need. The day this is implemented is the day when i unsub unless there has been some serious testing and some serious thought put into this, so I hope you never implement this on Epic.

 

 

Remove the enclosure rule on freedom, and implement code that functions similar to the house rule where if you are fenced in it will move you out.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Propheteer

[Gramuly 171]

I am a bit shocked at how many people say its a bad idea this late in the game.

 

I guess its safest to sit in a dark closet and hope no one trys to break down the door then it is to face your fears.

 

Rejoice  in the possible changes. Do not fear.

The game is not just for you. It is for all those who come behind you.

It is the first day for them and flying would be cool now and down the road.

Any problems can be fixed in time.

 

 

For the over worked programmers. Don't fear more work on your desk.

Its job security. There are many mmos that no longer have updates.

They live off the new players who come and go.

Don't want Wurm to go down this road.

Be happy when you get more work.

Say thank you and try and get it done before you die of old age.

We can wait and if you cant finish it then your grandchildren will.

 

I just get upset when old players say no new changes.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Gramuly

[Amadee 1,543]

I am a bit shocked at how many people say its a bad idea this late in the game.

 

<snip>

 

I just get upset when old players say no new changes.

 

I am equally shocked at how many people are so ready to embrace a change as game breaking as this.

And I get equally upset when players, new or old, blindly say yes to things as game breaking as this.

 

Seriously, how many of the people who are for it have really considered all the possible repercussions?  I mean really considered it, walked around and looked at their deeds or enclosures and imagined someone being able to jump here or there or wherever, or fly here, there or whatever, and what they would have to change to prevent it.

 

And aside from all the negatives for freedom, which is where I play and which has already been talked about, imagine people being able to cruise over deeds on the pvp servers even if they don't land.  I seem to remember seeing a lot of folks up in arms a while back about someone live streaming inside a deed because of it giving the enemy too good a look at their defenses or something like that.  I don't play there so don't know all of the undesirable affects that has, but I guess if flying goes in, they won't have to worry about live streaming any more. And yet I see even some pvp people saying this would be a good change?  I just don't understand people sometimes.

[Mojo 2,095]

Both are terrible ideas.

 

Instead of adding all the garbage, why not fix the bugged crap we already have...

[belthize 438]

ahhhhhh, wheres the other stuff we are waiting for.  I swear to God you guys have ADHD, cant start one thing and finish it without starting to work on another.

 

There are a lot of reasons not to put in flying/fence jumping but the above post is the best.

 

There are obviously limited dev resources.  Why take time to implement and test such a potentially game breaking fix for an incredibly rare problem when there are so many other items that need attention.

 

Shelve the whole idea and focus on other long, long, long standing issues or better ideas for improving game play from the suggestions forum.

[KanePT 699]

I am equally shocked at how many people are so ready to embrace a change as game breaking as this.

And I get equally upset when players, new or old, blindly say yes to things as game breaking as this.

 

Seriously, how many of the people who are for it have really considered all the possible repercussions?  I mean really considered it, walked around and looked at their deeds or enclosures and imagined someone being able to jump here or there or wherever, or fly here, there or whatever, and what they would have to change to prevent it.

 

And aside from all the negatives for freedom, which is where I play and which has already been talked about, imagine people being able to cruise over deeds on the pvp servers even if they don't land.  I seem to remember seeing a lot of folks up in arms a while back about someone live streaming inside a deed because of it giving the enemy too good a look at their defenses or something like that.  I don't play there so don't know all of the undesirable affects that has, but I guess if flying goes in, they won't have to worry about live streaming any more. And yet I see even some pvp people saying this would be a good change?  I just don't understand people sometimes.

I did... And ther's nothing anyone can do to my deed except mess with my animals, which obviosuly should be handled prior to the change.

I'm seriously boggled here. I mean i always gave proper feedback with alternatives and justified my views with facts not just opinions. And my forum account was perma-banned. Now i see 1/3 posts here simply saying that the wurm team are a bunch of incompetents that can't do a change to the game without breaking it. And apparently that's fine.

Start enumerating your cons, instead of "i can see how this can fail". Tell us what can fail!

 

 

Both are terrible ideas.

 

Instead of adding all the garbage, why not fix the bugged crap we already have...

Who said they won't?

If you still didn't get this already, flying and jumping would became a possibility as a side-effect of them improving the collision maps to fix the stuck on walls fence.

It doesn't mean that they'll do it just cause they can.

Nor are they announcing that they will.

And seriously this would be a awesome adition, and would be a shame if it was disregarded just because people fear change.

 

Also and this is for everyone saying "Aw bad idea, breaking the game, much bad". Have you considered the alternative?

For them to fix the current collision issues (and there are plenty, i've lost at least 2 horses and died a couple of times because i got stuck on a fence or a cave wall. I can't begin to recount the times i had to relog because i got stuck leaving a cart or falling down from a second floor), they will add an improved collision detection. BUT for them to add it and keep the current status, they'll have to artificially increase all fences and walls to infinite.

Now i might be wrong, but as far as balconies and whatnot go, i can see this posing a issue, with lower floor walls creating barriers on open walls above, which will force the devs to hack the code to shreds to make this go.

Bridges won't be able to go above walled tiles, of course. Etc, etc.

[Amadee 1,543]

I did... And ther's nothing anyone can do to my deed except mess with my animals, which obviosuly should be handled prior to the change.

I'm seriously boggled here. I mean i always gave proper feedback with alternatives and justified my views with facts not just opinions. And my forum account was perma-banned. Now i see 1/3 posts here simply saying that the wurm team are a bunch of incompetents that can't do a change to the game without breaking it. And apparently that's fine.

Start enumerating your cons, instead of "i can see how this can fail". Tell us what can fail!

 

 

Interesting that you chose my post for this. I'm hoping you weren't directing that at me,  I'll ignore the question about "what can fail" part since I don't like repeating myself and others.

 

Wanted to respond to this though (especially since it's in response to my post)........Implying that anyone should be perma banned for anything said in this thread is being a bit extreme, don't you think? If you have been in the past, I'm sorry to hear it but since I have no idea what you may or may not have posted that got you there I can't comment on it.

 

I'm usually the first to object to people acting like Rolf and the devs are incompetents and have been very vocal in their defense a number of times.  I honestly don't see much of that in this thread.  At least not like in some other threads I've seen anyway.

 

Mostly what I'm seeing here, and what I'm responding negatively to myself are the ideas themselves ie: flying/jumping, not the competence of the devs.  Rolf specifically asked for our thoughts on it.  So people are responding.  He did not ask for just positive thoughts, he asked for any thoughts.

[Freddy 26]

I will build a massive tower to dock my zeppelins!

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

Also -1 to remove enclosure rules(it could use some tweaking tho). This is currently the only thing, that protects newbies first steps in Wurm. Yes, you can tell, that "deed it or lose it", but that is not logical, that new players, who only try out the game and build their first places, are going to plant a deed right in the start. But during this time, when they use undeeded enclosure, their place needs protection from griefers(and here are plenty of griefers, even with current rules), as newbies losing their stuff/or place being destroyed overnight can have pretty big impact on retention rate(something which wurm can't be proud of even now). 

How is it not logical?

When I was a newbie, that's what pushed me to get a deed in the first place. It was the only way I could safely protect the things I couldn't/didn't keep in the house. I spent a solid month building my character up as a "squatter", knowing my things could get vandalized (they never did, though). If the enclosure rule that we currently have existed back then, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the one deed, let alone many deeds.

The enclosure rule needs to go. There's no incentive to buy a deed because of it. People are abusing it and walling off vast amounts of land without paying for it. I can't see where it's beneficial to Rolf's pockets, nor to the community (other than to those that abuse the rule).

[Arkonick 557]

How is it not logical?

When I was a newbie, that's what pushed me to get a deed in the first place. It was the only way I could safely protect the things I couldn't/didn't keep in the house. I spent a solid month building my character up as a "squatter", knowing my things could get vandalized (they never did, though). If the enclosure rule that we currently have existed back then, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the one deed, let alone many deeds.

The enclosure rule needs to go. There's no incentive to buy a deed because of it. People are abusing it and walling off vast amounts of land without paying for it. I can't see where it's beneficial to Rolf's pockets, nor to the community (other than to those that abuse the rule).

Well world trader draining is not beneficial to Rolf either should we get rid of this as well?

 

As far as enclosures the reason to deed is to stop decay.  You think players don't work for what they make on a non deeded land? They work harder than a deeded player. They have to keep improving walls so they are high enough to not decay fast then every few weeks repair every wall floor roof etc.... They pay for it in trying to stop there stuff from going poof.

 

I will agree to a extent on players walling in massive amounts of land and doing nothing with it. But there are others who building on every thing they wall in and the more they have the more strain it is to keep it all up. But as long as they do I don't think they should be punished cause of those who waste land.

 

Just to throw this out there on indy there is miles of un claimed land even with the mass players who have legal enclosures. So how people have a issue finding a place to plot there butt I find hard to believe.

 

We need collision in wurm to open a lot more for wurm. I would agree to jumping if it was for fun and not the ability to hop, jump over walls or low fence.

 

I would support flying only if it was mob only. I don't believe players should have the ability to fly creature or spell.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

Well world trader draining is not beneficial to Rolf either should we get rid of this as well?

 

Actually, that is, as there is an initial investment needed to get a trader in the first place. Shouldn't be comparing the two, but if you insist... 

 

 

As far as enclosures the reason to deed is to stop decay.  You think players don't work for what they make on a non deeded land? They work harder than a deeded player. They have to keep improving walls so they are high enough to not decay fast then every few weeks repair every wall floor roof etc.... They pay for it in trying to stop there stuff from going poof.

Deed protection covers fences and buildings themselves, and that's it. There are an abundant amount of other things typically found on a deed that need to be repaired too. The protection isn't substantial enough to make me think a deed is worth it. (I'm not alone in that feeling - go look at how many requests have been made to remove decay on deed)

 

 

I will agree to a extent on players walling in massive amounts of land and doing nothing with it. But there are others who building on every thing they wall in and the more they have the more strain it is to keep it all up. But as long as they do I don't think they should be punished cause of those who waste land.

 

 I can crap out 70ql small stone walls like no one's business. You know how long it takes for one of them babies to drop? 

 

 

Just to throw this out there on indy there is miles of un claimed land even with the mass players who have legal enclosures. So how people have a issue finding a place to plot there butt I find hard to believe.

Just to throw this out there, I know full well what open land Indy has. I know how much deedable land is on all of the PVE servers. I was never arguing a point about space... The point is, the rule is widely abused. For many years, there was no enclosure rule. Things worked just fine. Nobody broke into a newbie's 5x5 walled camp to raid... as the plunder wasn't even worth dragging the catapult down the street for. 

And just for example, if I were a real ######, I could head down to Exo's desert tonight with Becket and have majority of the thing walled off by the end of this weekend. 80ql walls and a personal hunting ground for him and I. Really, there's nothing in the current rules stopping us. Think about that for a minute.

[Lau 302]

Adding flying creatures would be a terrible mistake. When other games adopted flying creatures it completely removed the exploration aspect of those games. Take for example World of Warcraft. When flying mounts were introduced exploration was dead. Passing through difficult territory to reach your objective was no longer an exciting issue, but a complete no-brainer. It also ruined questing, along with world PvP as reaching quest objectives and ganking players was made even easier.

 

If the players in Wurm suddenly had the ability to fly, it would remove the ability to have a deed defended by natural terrain. It would remove the need to place deeds in the same kingdom close to each other for protection. It would remove the need to place a deed close to a marketplace if you wish to trade, in fact it would completely remove market hubs as everyone and their mom could just fly over with items that don't fit in a mailbox, or visit every deed with a merchant with no difficulty.

 

Also don't forget the implication that this would have on PvP servers. Here deeds are placed to take advantage of the terrain and block enemies from easily entering your lands. Adding flying creatures would make this method of defense obsolete, as you can just fly over the deeds. Even if guards shoot down flying creatures, you can just fly around the deeds. Which would take you over terrain that normally would not be passable.

 

It would shorten travel time and make life easier. In my opinion, one of the great things about wurm is that these things need to be accounted for when you want to go somewhere, and this would completely remove the need to do so.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Lau

[rixk 830]

How is it not logical?

When I was a newbie, that's what pushed me to get a deed in the first place. It was the only way I could safely protect the things I couldn't/didn't keep in the house. I spent a solid month building my character up as a "squatter", knowing my things could get vandalized (they never did, though). If the enclosure rule that we currently have existed back then, I probably wouldn't have bothered with the one deed, let alone many deeds.

The enclosure rule needs to go. There's no incentive to buy a deed because of it. People are abusing it and walling off vast amounts of land without paying for it. I can't see where it's beneficial to Rolf's pockets, nor to the community (other than to those that abuse the rule).

There is incentive: stop building decay, get a spirit templar, get spawn point(that is major benefit for newbs) etc.. When you remove enclosure rule, there won't be anything to stop the griefers raid newbies enclosures in case of any conflict. Considering the "get off my lawn" mentality in Wurm, the conflicts are easy to raise. And in any case the newbies are always at the weaker side, now you want to remove the only thing that protects them. Trying to claim, that all of them are automatically going to buy a deed is overly optimistic, they haven't done it so far, despite the benefits, they won't most likely do it in the future. Give them negative emotions and they will leave the game...

 

The people, who wall off vast amount of land, are totally different matter. I agree, that is the problem, which should be addressed. But when the rules are weak to prevent this, the rules need to be improved, not removed completely.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

As most of you know you can fall down into a fence or wall section and become trapped. We have the fix to this already, closing the hole at the top of the fence but it isn't ingame yet. However, it also means that you will be able to move over fences and stone walls if you can get high enough.

 

The good thing about this is that we could give you the possibility to fly in various ways. It is possible that it should be a fairly rare thing in Wurm but attainable to anyone who happens to find such a creature or ability and probably body control based. Such creatures should not be breedable.

 

The downside with flying is that it makes it a lot easier to get into areas and cause trouble especially on PvP servers.  That part could be fixed by adding arrows to settlement guards that easily shoot down hostile flying creatures or force them to land outside deed, so it's solvable. Even on freedom servers settlement guards could attack flyers that are not citizens or allies. It will become possible to jump over fences from the current dirt walls and rock sides though, especially if we add some jumping which we might want to.

 

Thirdly, there is a lot of discussion when it comes to the "legal enclosures" rule on the freedom servers. Adding flying would make it impossible to uphold that rule since you wouldn't even have to break a fence in order to land in someones enclosure. The rule already seems to create a lot of situations that end up in a grey zone of who is right or wrong which is undesirable so many on the team want it to go away anyways.

 

We would try to hold this implementation off for as long as possible since obviously you would need preparations but once a decision is made it would probably happen after a month or two.

 

Thoughts? This would have quite an impact on the game but flying and jumping is sort of interesting features. And we need to fix the getting stuck in fences/walls bug eventually.

*** MY OPINION AND INTERPRETATION ***

 

I want to try and see if I can interpret this.  Here it goes...

 

1.  Present a problem that needs fixing.  Who doesn't want bugs fixed, right?

 

As most of you know you can fall down into a fence or wall section and become trapped. We have the fix to this already, closing the hole at the top of the fence but it isn't ingame yet.

 

2.  But if we fix the problem, we may as well use the issue to expand the game's features and knock out two birds with one stone - smart!

 

However, it also means that you will be able to move over fences and stone walls if you can get high enough.

 

3.  Enter - flying in Wurm!

 

The good thing about this is that we could give you the possibility to fly in various ways.

 

4.  But not everyone can fly - that would be just wrong.  Instead, let's make it something to strive for.

 

It is possible that it should be a fairly rare thing in Wurm

 

5.  Two requirements:  1.  you need a certain rare creature that cannot be bred but spawns randomly.  2.  There will be an amazingly high body control requirement.

 

but attainable to anyone who happens to find such a creature or ability and probably body control based. Such creatures should not be breedable.

 

6.  For those who meet the requirements, you will never again be limited by the existing deed walls and protections.  This is especially true on PVP servers.

 

The downside with flying is that it makes it a lot easier to get into areas and cause trouble especially on PvP servers.  

 

7.  But not to worry, we will beef up the settlement guards (that's templars - pvp servers (Epic) - so that's 3s a piece per 28 days), which will be able to "easily" shoot down hostile flying creatures, if you have purchased enough of them.

 

That part could be fixed by adding arrows to settlement guards that easily shoot down hostile flying creatures or force them to land outside deed, so it's solvable.

 

8.  And let's not leave out freedom server settlements who have yet to purchase templars - what's wrong with them?  

 

Even on freedom servers settlement guards could attack flyers that are not citizens or allies.

 

9.  Those that don't purchase templars will have to deal with THE JUMPERS!!!!!   Those who will figure out how to leap over your walls and grief anything they can possibly find.  But the templars could "enforce the deed laws!"

 

It will become possible to jump over fences from the current dirt walls and rock sides though, especially if we add some jumping which we might want to.

 

10.  Why we ever allowed these legal enclosures, I will never know.  After all, it only breeds the idea that you don't really need to spend money and purchase a deed for your own little spot in Wurm.

 

Thirdly, there is a lot of discussion when it comes to the "legal enclosures" rule on the freedom servers.

 

11.  Since we are going to introduce these new "features" we cannot possibly allow this "free" land to be claimed by squatters any longer.

 

Adding flying would make it impossible to uphold that rule since you wouldn't even have to break a fence in order to land in someones enclosure.

 

12.  Besides, it takes a lot of dev involvement to enforce these rules anyway.  And for what?  We gain nothing from this.  We need more deeds and more templars!

 

The rule already seems to create a lot of situations that end up in a grey zone of who is right or wrong which is undesirable so many on the team want it to go away anyways.

 

13.  So Rolf wants to know what we think of his plan - which WILL happen in a few months.  So get ready for it, even though he has already told you there is NO WAY to get ready for it except to purchase more land and protections.

 

We would try to hold this implementation off for as long as possible since obviously you would need preparations but once a decision is made it would probably happen after a month or two.

 

14.  So what you think about my great plan to raise revenue under the guise of fixing a bug?

 

Thoughts? This would have quite an impact on the game but flying and jumping is sort of interesting features. And we need to fix the getting stuck in fences/walls bug eventually.

 

 

===========================================

I am sorry Rolf and Team. That's how I see this whole thing.  

I don't mean to be disrespectful to you or the game.  I love this game!

I don't mean to make light of progress.  Wurm needs progress!

I don't mean to criticize.  I am only trying to help!

This is an opinion from a 4.5 year veteran who just PAID up his TWO premium characters through fall of next year.

 

You raised the sub rates in Wurm and now not only are players NOT purchasing coin from the shop like before, they are purchasing more and more from each other which only hurts your income.

Also, other currencies are rising up in Wurm because there is less and less silver.  I just purchased an 80q chain set for ONE SLEEP POWDER.  This is only going to get worse!

 

I implore you and your excellent development team to fix the existing bugs and fix the pricing model before you destroy years of game play trying to raise revenue under the guise of new and exciting features.

 

That's all I wanted to say.  I pray you weigh this carefully.

 

Edited January 4, 2014 by Eyesgood

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

There is incentive: stop building decay, get a spirit templar, get spawn point(that is major benefit for newbs) etc.. When you remove enclosure rule, there won't be anything to stop the griefers raid newbies enclosures in case of any conflict. Considering the "get off my lawn" mentality in Wurm, the conflicts are easy to raise. And in any case the newbies are always at the weaker side, now you want to remove the only thing that protects them. Trying to claim, that all of them are automatically going to buy a deed is overly optimistic, they haven't done it so far, despite the benefits, they won't most likely do it in the future. Give them negative emotions and they will leave the game...

 

The people, who wall off vast amount of land, are totally different matter. I agree, that is the problem, which should be addressed. But when the rules are weak to prevent this, the rules need to be improved, not removed completely.

Templars are not free and do not come with the purchase of a deed. It's an additional purchase, and honestly, one that's not very appealing, considering you can build a tower for free. The additional spawn point is the only other actual benefit to owning a deed vs. not.

The get off my lawn mentality exists, sure... but it means absolutely nothing when the people screaming "get off my lawn" are doing so about tiles they don't even pay for. All in all, if a big, bad veteran comes along and starts messing with a newbie because they're not fond of the fact that the newbie is setting up shop on the undeeded land down the street, then the veteran will find themselves in trouble with staff. Again, I still think that's a circumstance that is being blown out of proportion, because for 4+ years before the enclosure rule, newbs (including myself) got along just fine without anybody coming and catting down our walls and raiding us.

Lastly, I never claimed that ALL of those people would instantly want to buy deeds, I claimed it would actually give them incentive to buy one.

[EmpireEnd 1]

Yes to jumping, progress is always good. Though I would like to see the "infinite height hack" fix for fences until something else is put into place and tested to keep people/mobs out.

 

No to flying as described. If it's a few non breedable mobs that only a few people are going to get I have no use for it and it will only cause trouble for me (eg, bypassing fences/barriers). Flying spells just seem awkward, unless you need to equip a broom & witch hat.

 

Someone mentioned hot air balloons and I really like that idea however. Assuming you can fix the whole bypassing fences (maybe can't land on deed or within 10 tiles of a house not owned by your alliance/citizen/friend). Make it hard to craft but doable, slow speed (like 2 to 5km/h) and no cart like storage. Not viable for everyday transportation but good for exploring, getting to really hard to reach spots, players offering rides for coin and general fun.  Maybe earlier crafting stages being hang glider (i'm iffy on this one myself) & makeshift parachute.

 

As for legal encloses they need to be redone on freedom as you need to catch the person in the act otherwise it's worthless (low ql fences and troll clubs anyone?). Perhaps a mini deed token, players without a deed get a token for a 5x5 area where you can't bash, lead animals, farm or pick up items but doesn't protect against anything else. To keep the abuse of it by using alts maybe tie it to a house writ where it can be placed within X tiles of the house. Otherwise just keep the current rules.

 

Note that I am on the freedom server.

[DoctorAngus 184]

-1, gonna create more grief situations

[rixk 830]

Templars are not free and do not come with the purchase of a deed. It's an additional purchase, and honestly, one that's not very appealing, considering you can build a tower for free. The additional spawn point is the only other actual benefit to owning a deed vs. not.

The get off my lawn mentality exists, sure... but it means absolutely nothing when the people screaming "get off my lawn" are doing so about tiles they don't even pay for. All in all, if a big, bad veteran comes along and starts messing with a newbie because they're not fond of the fact that the newbie is setting up shop on the undeeded land down the street, then the veteran will find themselves in trouble with staff. Again, I still think that's a circumstance that is being blown out of proportion, because for 4+ years before the enclosure rule, newbs (including myself) got along just fine without anybody coming and catting down our walls and raiding us.

Lastly, I never claimed that ALL of those people would instantly want to buy deeds, I claimed it would actually give them incentive to buy one.

 

 

 

Yet it was necessary to enforce the rule in the first place, apparently not everyone got along so well. I have seen already two cases in last year, where ONLY deed enclosure rule did protect the newbies(kind of). In those two cases, deeds were put in place by veterans, to override the enclosure rules. At least it was expensive to grief and that kinda works as gating too. But when you remove the rule, everyone can spend 10 minutes on bashing down the fence and go destroy everything that is outside of the house.

 

GMs in Wurm aren't able to put things in context(yes, I am talking from experience with GMs), only thing they do is hold finger on the rulebook and quote those.. so when that big bad veteran doesn't break any rules(when there aren't any enclosure rules, then there is nothing to break), then the GMs will do nothing. And yes in those two cases which I mentioned, the GMs simply watched how veterans were griefing, because "no rules were broken". That is how much "trouble" it will get you.

Edited January 3, 2014 by rixk

[Sklo:D 2,210]

I would really love to fly with a nice amount of speed while travelling long distances. But flying might be game breaking in a way which would make it impossible to keep animals, stuff and anything else safe outside a deed. 

 

From the pvp aspect it would be horrible if everyone could fly over your long houses and Co, we have just nerfed the dragon dominating because the slope they can climb is insane, so I don't think that this step would be smart in any way. Just improve the speed of boats which would be nice for travelling but no flying in my opinion.

 

I already gave my feedback on fence stuff to our glorious Head Game Master Enki and I guess this has been discussed intern... Enclosures need a rule or a complete improvement! but well I mentioned this already...

Edited January 3, 2014 by Sklo:D

[Bart 954]

Please fix stuff before adding more features which, going off past experience will almost certainly be bugged, i mean valrei is a huge part of epic and that isn't even working

[Becket 843]

Imo the enclosure rule was a nice idea..give noobs a little protection when they are starting out. We all know the enclosure rule has been abused to hell.

Just get rid of it and go with what works..Deed it or Lose it it's simple and works.

[Torgrim 403]

Remove off deed fence bashing of enclousures instead. Let the game calculate what is an enclosure, it shouldn't be too hard. If it is an enclosure make it impossible to bash it. Why is that so hard to implement instead of some supposedly GM-enforced rule that the GMs have no tooling support to actually enforce?

 

Edit - Only on non PvP servers of course -

Edited January 3, 2014 by Torgrim

[Amadee 1,543]

I've already given my opinion on the flying and fence hopping part so won't go into that.  

 

I held off on the enclosure rule part because I can actually see both sides to this in a way. After weighing the pros and cons I have to say I agree with throwing out the enclosure rules.  

 

On the one hand we have the new folks who are trying out the game, on the other we have people who permanently wall off huge areas for free.  I do sympathize with the new people trying the game which is why I held off on this part of the requested feedback.  But I can't think of any other game where you can be a property owner or house owner for free.  In every case I'm aware of, you have to be premium.  It encourages going premium, plain and simple.  

 

In Wurm, people will still be able to build a house, etc. They just wouldn't have the security of owning a deed.  This would be an inconvenience for people who have been living on and maintaining legal enclosures, true, and I do sympathize. But if they've been playing for any length of time, they should have the ability to make enough coin in game to deed it. Plus if they're long-time players and friendly with their neighbors, I doubt anyone is going to be harassing them anyway. And if they're new, and just trying the game, they still have the ability to build a house and their things would still be reasonably safe inside while they're deciding.  

 

I just really don't think that the ability to build a house almost anywhere you want to try out the game, (which actually does have a minimal security & storage, and which can't be done in any other game I know of), was ever intended to be a permanent arrangement.  How long does it take to "try" the game, anyway?  In any game I'm aware of that has housing and f2p, you can play for free with restrictions and zero possibility of home ownership & storage, or you go premium to get those perqs. Wurm would still be a step up on those even without the enclosure rules.

 

Deed it or lose it just makes sense to me in that context.  

 

edit: Actually I think deed it or lose it should actually read deed it or Risk losing it.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Amadee