Remove sleep bonus cap for premium players

[Theodis 339]

But none of you can refute Kaih's argument.  If you aren't using the 5 hours of SB now, what good will storing it do?

It is wonderful that some people have a nice regular schedule such that they can devote at least 5 hours of playtime every 5 days to ensure that it doesn't go to waste but that isn't the case for everyone. And just because I can't use it immediately doesn't mean I'll have a decent chunk of free time in the future to be able to use it all. You can make that same argument for any timespan. If you could only store half an hour of it would you still be making the same claim? I mean if you can't play at least half an hour every 12 hours what good does storing it do for you?

A new limit will just be a cause to ask for it to be raised again.  And I definitely do not want to see unlimited SB stored, as it changes what SB is supposed to be.

Well yeah different people have different obligations in life. The larger the capacity the more flexible it becomes with people's schedules. And I'm not sure how an unlimited cap changes what function it's supposed to serve. I'm still curious as to where Rolf explained his intentions with it or if you're just coming to your own conclusions about what it's supposed to be. As far as I understand sleep bonus type stuff it's meant to give a small boost to those that don't have the chance to play as often and if this is the case then increasing the limit can only benefit this, but I wouldn't presume to understand Rolf's intentions without some statement from him.

Personally, I think Rolf should just stop giving out SB from server crashes, and stop selling/giving out powders too.  Turn SB back into the 5 hours bonus from sleeping that it should be, and nothing more.  Then maybe you would appreciate SB better.

I'm not exactly sure who this is supposed to be hurting to make them appreciate sleep bonus better. None of that would make any difference to me as I rarely benefit from crashes and one extra hour a month isn't all that much so I wouldn't exactly care if I didn't get that. So by all means get Rolf to do that. I'd be in the exact same position. You'd just be shooting yourself in the foot and the original issue would still be there to suggest solutions for.

It is amazing how callous some people can be and think that everyone should be able to play the game in the same way they do and if they can't they should just suck it up and give up on enjoying it especially on something inane as this.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

As stated before, this is NOT a casual game.  If you can't devote the time necessary to play properly, why should the game adapt to you?  It changes the game for those of us already playing and enjoying it as it is.  You want a more casual game, go find one, or make one yourself.  Leave this game alone.

[Theodis 339]

As stated before, this is NOT a casual game.  If you can't devote the time necessary to play properly, why should the game adapt to you?  It changes the game for those of us already playing and enjoying it as it is.  You want a more casual game, go find one, or make one yourself.  Leave this game alone.

I never said I couldn't invest enough time to play properly or enjoy it. Just that work demands I be away from home weeks at a time and it's annoying to lose out on SB due to the cap. The more people that can enjoy the game the better off financially it'll be. A change like this won't even affect your play style in the slightest and it's not giving anyone a huge advantage either. It's simply more accommodating to people's schedules.

[Aeris 3,751]

Lol if you don't use it anyway you're hardly losing out on it

[AlexDunphy 73]

As stated before, this is NOT a casual game.  If you can't devote the time necessary to play properly, why should the game adapt to you?  It changes the game for those of us already playing and enjoying it as it is.  You want a more casual game, go find one, or make one yourself.  Leave this game alone.

 

I stayed out of the discussion far now, but now you repeat this the second time, so I feel like I have to enter the discussion. And since far now you sounded like a person who discuss the topic, not the person making it, and you tried to bring arguments, I will beg you to continue / answer this in the same style.

 

The situation as I see it is:

- you are a hardcore gamer and you WANT a hardcore game

- I am a (somehow) casual gamer and I WANT a more casual game

- the DEVs made this suggestions and ideas forum section specially so we can all make our suggestions, so they are indirectly asking for suggestions (and I posted in the exact section for this, not town hall, not wood scraps, etc)

- yes, all my suggestions, this included, are aimed towards making WURM a more casual game, which could make it more entertaining for us, more casual gamers

 

Now you come and STATE that WURM is NOT a casual game, it is NOT for casual gamers, and we could as well pack our stuff and move on to another game.

 

Do you have any post / reference of Rolf or any DEV saying that WURM is and will remain a hardcore game, aimed at hardcore gamers. If that is the case, and I missed the point, then please show me that and I will not only stop posting any suggestion against the official policy of the game, but also follow your advise and "go find another game" and "leave this game alone".

 

But, 'till then, my impression is that it's just a matter of WHAT YOU WANT (and other like you) vs WHAT I WANT (and others like me). And as long as our suggestions are made in the proper forum section and are only suggestions for DEVs to see and consider, and nothing more, please just combat them with arguments. Not tell us to quit the game and find another game, just because we are not as hardcore as you and we think that some changes will benefit the game.

 

At the end of the day, casuals or hardcore, we are all here, which means we somehow love this game... and I hope that all of us also care what is the best for the game as a whole, not for ourselves only.

 

PS: Really, this was probably the least selfish idea ever. I play like 3-4 hours every day (less in weekends, since my play time is from work), I hardly ever have any leftover sleepover when I go to sleep, I hardly ever missed more than an hour on any server crash. It's just that I feel it will be more equity if everyone (no matter how much or how less they play) could benefit at maximum of their SB; so for example a premium player, paying his subscription, but going in a two weeks vacation, will at least receive SB for all these days while he paid his subscription, without benefiting of the game, without consuming server resources and bandwith, etc.

 

Cheers,

Alex

Edited January 2, 2014 by AlexDunphy

[Aeris 3,751]

What he's saying is that as a casual gamer you shouldn't feel entitled to the skillset of a hardcore gamer, but this suggestion aims to make that come true by allowing for massive hoarding of sb.

You know this, because most of your threads (if not all) aim to make things easier for yourself while pulling the carpet away from underneath the hardcore players since you consider them to be losers.

[Theodis 339]

What he's saying is that as a casual gamer you shouldn't feel entitled to the skillset of a hardcore gamer, but this suggestion aims to make that come true by allowing for massive hoarding of sb.

Not sure how this suggestion leads to that. If someone plays only an hour a day using SB the whole time how is it different from someone who has a 30 hour marathon once a month with SB? It just makes the scheduling of its use much more lenient it doesn't give someone more in the same period of time.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

You really can't have a casual play style and a hardcore play style going on in the same game, it unbalances gameplay for the player base as a whole.  It would be like playing Doom with players at Hold my Hand Mommy level, and Bring it On level on the same server.  It causes problems.

 

And you still aren't being honest yourself.  What you want is faster skillgain, and as much as possible.  The only way that has worked so far was when they created the Epic cluster.  If you want the same for pve, a separate cluster would be the only way to prevent problems.  Trying to change the current cluster to the style you want would cause too many to quit.  I would not be against a separate cluster to try these ideas, it would also give an opportunity to see which play style is more popular and holds players longer.

[Protunia 735]

if you dont use the 5h, why would you need more than that?

 

 

Because some people saved theirs up only to suffer through a game problem and not get rewarded like others......who suffered the same problems.

 

Thats the basic's of this type of thing for me anyhow.

 

Either change how the sb rewards are handed out for game issues so it is all the same and fair for all or just stop giving them in sb and give time only.

 

In game time is the same as sb anyhow and it would be fairer to all players to hand out days of play instead of sb.

 

I mean they all suffered the same game problem/issues/malfunction......rewarding some much and others zero is flawed.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Protunia

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Unfortunately, Protunia, prem time is where Rolf makes his money, so I only see free prem time given out in extreme cases, like recently.

[Theodis 339]

And you still aren't being honest yourself.  What you want is faster skillgain, and as much as possible.  The only way that has worked so far was when they created the Epic cluster.  If you want the same for pve, a separate cluster would be the only way to prevent problems.  Trying to change the current cluster to the style you want would cause too many to quit.  I would not be against a separate cluster to try these ideas, it would also give an opportunity to see which play style is more popular and holds players longer.

You keep bringing this up but what the heck does having more control of when I can use my sleep bonus have to do with wanting a constant increase in skill gain? You really don't seem to want to challenge my point and instead pretend I want something else entirely.

If someone plays only an hour a day using SB the whole time how is it different from someone who has a 30 hour marathon once a month with SB?

In both cases the amount of sleep bonus and its use is exactly the same. Without the cap it just gives the player more control as to when to spend it without having to worry about wasting it if they can't be on for at least 5 hours every 5 days.

Thankfully it's not you I need to convince so continue to build your strawman if you really like. I'm sure anyone with the control to change things will be more convinced by a solid argument rather than name calling and logical fallacies.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Theodis, I'm arguing against the OP, not whatever you suggested.  But I do not see a good reason to change the current system as it works.  It just does not work as well as you want.  Wanting more does not equal needing more.

[Protunia 735]

Well.....there could be a timed reward that is delayed and players notified that within 1-2 days the reward is going to be handed out.....

 

Anything at all to help the situation were many players feel jaded over this free sb issue would help PR for sure.

 

Just like you get to choose when to use a referal the same system could be used for sb handed out during games issues.

 

That IMHO would be a BIG improvement over whats going on now.

[KaiH 1,126]

saved SB

you saved up the max amount. server goes down.

you still have the max amount. you did not use a single minute of it, so you did not suffer a loss.

 

why do you want a higher maximum? you didn't loose anything.

 

 

used SB

you use some or all of your SB. server goes down.

you get SB. you gained the benefit of SB while you used it.

 

why do you want a higher maximum? you did benefit from the SB you used.

 

 

the best part of sleep bonus is that you can use it - you don't use it = you don't gain from it.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Thanks, Kaih.  There really is no "fair" way to distribute SB.  The current system is fine because it is universally unfair.  Very few actually get 5 hours SB, many get just a bit, or none if they happened to be full.  For every time you are shorted, others get shorted next time.  And what Rolf does now does not require any special recoding, he uses the system as it is and tops off everyone.  Why try to make him change what has been working for years?

[Protunia 735]

Thanks, Kaih.  There really is no "fair" way to distribute SB.  The current system is fine because it is universally unfair.  Very few actually get 5 hours SB, many get just a bit, or none if they happened to be full.  For every time you are shorted, others get shorted next time.  And what Rolf does now does not require any special recoding, he uses the system as it is and tops off everyone.  Why try to make him change what has been working for years?

The coding is already there.........referals  give 1 hour sleep bonus and 20 days.....

 

Rolf could hand out developer referal of 5 hours sb instead.....that could be used.

 

Would take only just a small addition/change to the referal amount given from Rolf.....

 

Anyhow its not fine as it is and has been a thorn for years in players sides.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Protunia

[Elen 1,013]

I honestly wish they would just stop compensating at this point.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I agree Elen, no one appreciates a gift anymore.  They have come to expect it and are becoming more and more demanding about it.

 

Protunia, the only thorn in someone's side is when they didn't get anything, or very little, and that happens most of the time to everyone, so it is as fair as it can be.  It does not take anything away from them if they didn't get it, but they get butthurt feelings because they wanted more.  Wanting and needing are 2 different things.  And trying to recode referrals into something for SB is not as easy as you seem to think.  Lots of inheritance issues when using an existing object to create a new one.  And to what purpose?  I guarantee if Rolf did change the current system there would still be limits, and the following week someone would start a new thread demanding the limits to be raised again.  Greed has no limits.

 

I remind everyone, Rolf is under no legal obligation at all to give out SB or any compensation when the servers are down.  It is a gift, a kindness he gives in a simple way to apologize for the delays.  And no one has the right to demand how a gift should be given to them.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Vroomfondel

[Protunia 735]

I agree Elen, no one appreciates a gift anymore.  They have come to expect it and are becoming more and more demanding about it.

 

Protunia, the only thorn in someone's side is when they didn't get anything, or very little, and that happens most of the time to everyone, so it is as fair as it can be.  It does not take anything away from them if they didn't get it, but they get butthurt feelings because they wanted more.  Wanting and needing are 2 different things.  And trying to recode referrals into something for SB is not as easy as you seem to think.  Lots of inheritance issues when using an existing object to create a new one.  And to what purpose?  I guarantee if Rolf did change the current system there would still be limits, and the following week someone would start a new thread demanding the limits to be raised again.  Greed has no limits.

 

I remind everyone, Rolf is under no legal obligation at all to give out SB or any compensation when the servers are down.  It is a gift, a kindness he gives in a simple way to apologize for the delays.  And no one has the right to demand how a gift should be given to them.

 

 

You seem to forget that everyone suffers the same through the problems.....

 

So you can call people names for feeling they got the shaft its not going to make them feel any better what so ever about the fact.

 

Rolf can easily change the situation in more than a few ways if he chooses to do so.

 

Its not anyone elses call really, but it does effect players and how they feel about the game when things are not passed out evenly when they all pay the same to play.

 

Should there be a better way to handle it??  yes there should and we would never again have to go through this garbage of arguing over whether "bob" should have gotten the same amount of sb as the next guy.

 

So keep making statements that suck up to the status quo...... it wont change the fact many players feel cheated when this sometimes you get some or not sb bit is done.  All it really has done is reward those who play endlessly over and over again while making those who can't play as often feel like they have been snuffed at once again even though they pay the same premium.

 

Anyhow its not my pocket book that's hurt when someone doesn't buy prem over this type of thing.......It's the game as a whole that loses.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Protunia

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Then let's do it the only fair way, stop handing out any SB from resets.  Then we have nothing to argue about.  I'm sick of seeing this keep coming up.

[Pottis 60]

Can we stop arguing please?

 

Keep the sleep bonus at 5h as it is now.

 

No need to make people gather upp 1000 hours of 2x skillgain.

 

There is reason why Rolf made the sleep bonus 5 h, Think people, Think.

 

Repeat, Think!

[Theodis 339]

No need to make people gather upp 1000 hours of 2x skillgain.

You do understand this would take 3 years of paying for premium on a character without playing right?

[joedobo 1,187]

saved SB

you saved up the max amount. server goes down.

you still have the max amount. you did not use a single minute of it, so you did not suffer a loss.

 

why do you want a higher maximum? you didn't loose anything.

 

 

used SB

you use some or all of your SB. server goes down.

you get SB. you gained the benefit of SB while you used it.

 

why do you want a higher maximum? you did benefit from the SB you used.

 

 

the best part of sleep bonus is that you can use it - you don't use it = you don't gain from it.

 

This is complete BS.  I have 5, gift is given out, I have 5. I gained nothing. Another player had 1, gift is given out, that player benefited from 4 more they I. Seems pretty messed up to think just because I didn't use my first 5 hour that somehow I know don't deserve to receive a gift.

 

Not that I care much about the SB gift. Heck I wouldn't care if they removed the SB gift. My main point is that removing the cap effectively removes all arguments about SB, improves moral, improves customers service, add more flexibility to using SB. All these benefits come at NO COST. No one here can give a well supported reason why this is bad. it literately huts no one and add substantial benefits to the Wurm experience.

 

Every single comment about accumulating loads of SB is bull when you do the math associated with those claim. Players will still buy sleep powder. This is because most that by sleep powder are players who both grind for hours a day and want the SB too. Further, these players simply can't accumulate sb if they are grinding away for many hours a day.

[KaiH 1,126]

are you complaining about the size of mugs at a free refill too?

if your mug is full you have to drink of it to get it refilled.

[Protunia 735]

are you complaining about the size of mugs at a free refill too?

if your mug is full you have to drink of it to get it refilled.

 

Free refills of soda at the 7/11 and server crashes for hours or days are too completely different things.....don't try to go sideways here....