Wagons are counter intuitive

[Jenshiye 146]

From here: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/92108-news-update-work-and-progress-week-49/

 

With 4 creatures hitched it is the fastest of all the carts currently in the game.

 

 

Quick copy out of IRC

 

 Jenshae: The wagons aren't exactly useful. Faster, great.
 Jenshae: What about being able to sleep in a wagon so you get sleep bonus? How does a wagon help to make a mobile home?

 Jenshae: It is terrible Noizhead - if I ever get to log on
 Jenshae: Wagons are also counter intuitive. They had more animals pulling them because they had bigger loads.
 Jenshae: Trucks and trailers don't go faster than sports cars.
 Jenshae: Chariots were faster than carriages (like a cart) and those were quicker than wagons.

 

 

Copy out of Wurm:

 <....ane> not necessarily slower... If speed depended on weight, then, the empty wagon could be faster than a cart

 <....ane> and progressively slow down to below cart speed after it carries more than a cart

 <Jenshae> Wagons are slow because they are as slow as the slowest animal

 <Jenshae> The animals used for them were the strongest, not the fastest (tractor engines)

 

 

 

Now if it were slow but you could:

• Carry a type of small stove / forge on it and only it.
• Put a brake on off deed so that it can't be moved.
• Spawn a temporary 2x2 fence for your animals around it with a lock when you stop.
• Carry a rowing boat to go fishing.

 

Then it would be a worthy addition to the game.

 

Want four animals and speed? Make a chariot like that.

 

--------------------

 

Want a ship equivalent? Make a freight cart.

• Appears to be full of crates, barrels and such.
• 1.5 times longer.
• High sides.
• Bit slower.
• 1 passenger.
• Same storage as a ship.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Jenshiye

[Archaed 2,280]

I think the wagons are more intended to be a viable alternative to those who dont live in a boat accessible place. This means you arent stuck with relying on just large carts (which carry 1/7th of most ships)

Think of the speed boost as something to make it a little more comparible to ships rather than worry about how accurate it is. Plus, large horse team carriages were much faster than dual horse, regardless of the load

[Quiglen 75]

+1 to chuck wagons!

[Jenshiye 146]

Think of the speed boost as something to make it a little more comparible to ships rather than...

 

Nope, because where do they go for the ideas I outlined, which people do want? Caravan-chariots?

[Archaed 2,280]

Who said chariots were being introduced? They can always make them anyways and simply make them faster.

Saying nope as a response to a suggestion just makes it kind of obvious you arent looking beyond your ideas

[Jenshiye 146]

Who said chariots were being introduced? They can always make them anyways and simply make them faster.

Saying nope as a response to a suggestion just makes it kind of obvious you arent looking beyond your ideas

 

"Nope" was a quick dismissal based upon what you said as I had already been there before I posted the thread. It is because I do not accept that concept and why I am motivated to have started it in the first place.

 

As for chariots, they are a hypothetical next step, which helps to create a logical thought structure to guide the reader through the ideas and critisms that I have put forth.

 

Edit for a grammatical error.

Edit 2 for broken quote

Edited December 13, 2013 by Jenshiye

[Xor 684]

Traveling in wurm is terrible. Especially if you are going over land with a haul of items.

 

Leave the wagon be, let them increase land storage capacity, and let them increase the speed. Enjoy it, don't ruin it!

[Jenshiye 146]

It is an over powered large cart, soon everyone will have one. There is no trade off and it closes a whole other way of making the game better with more ways to play it.

 

It will become like rowboats (small carts for free players and newbies) and knarrs (wagons) without the sailboats (large carts).

[Xor 684]

I see a LOT of corbitas, cogs, sailboats, and row boats.. not everyone is GO KNARR OR GO HOME!!!

 

Also, not EVERYONE will have one, some people will have a large cart BEFORE they can equip themselves with the wagon, just like with the boats / ships.

 

Nothing wrong with variety.. there will always be a best option / most popular option that most people use.

[Jenshiye 146]

Nothing wrong with variety..

 

 it closes a whole other way of making the game better with more ways to play it.

 

It is the lack of variety, now and in the future that I am protesting. The gypsy wagon won't exist.

[Protunia 735]

-1 to any kind of sleeping wagons........ build a house!! and make a bed!!

Edited December 14, 2013 by Protunia

[Marshlander 188]

I see a LOT of corbitas, cogs, sailboats, and row boats.. not everyone is GO KNARR OR GO HOME!!!

Yes, that's because there is a tradeoff speed vs load-limit and other characteristics (traversable depth).

 

I don't see these with the wagons and agree with the OP. Even if it requires high-level carpentry, tailoring and what-not then it will just become a big market until everyone has one.

[AlexLong 128]

Went over the points of the wagon then. Seems fine as is so -1
 

It is an over powered large cart, soon everyone will have one. There is no trade off and it closes a whole other way of making the game better with more ways to play it.

Having and using are two different things though. 4 animials hitched will problay eat from the same tile causing a stripping of food etc. I don't think this would be practical for my daily use around my farm and then log off and leave my animials hitched to it like I can now with the large cart.

This "wagon" has been asked for many times. In a thread recently I suggested that they should go slower due to carrying more regardless of the extra animials. However I don't care if they go faster either. We need better freight management and the devs realize this and have been working pretty hard to fix it. So I'd just rather leave them to do their thing. Glad they listened.
Also, the issue with slowing the wagon would mean trouble for freight I guess too, making it extremely hard to run from animials when in danger

Edited December 14, 2013 by AlexLong

[Serpentarius 186]

Having and using are two different things though. 4 animials hitched will problay eat from the same tile causing a stripping of food etc. I don't think this would be practical for my daily use around my farm and then log off and leave my animials hitched to it like I can now with the large cart.

 

 

We actually discussed that problem with the devs in the  Work in progress thread about the wagon , and the devs said:

 

We are going to fix the issue regarding having the 4 hitched animals on 1 tile before implementation.

[Jenshiye 146]

Be on the vehile and unhitch them all. Three ropes and it is quick enough to get them hitched again.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Can't believe there is this much drama over an item that isn't even in the game yet.  As far as I'm concerned it is an overdue addition.  For too long everyone has wanted shoreline property, so they could use ships to haul large loads, as we had no other option for large loads.  This has left large tracts of land empty simply because the shore was too far away.  The wagon evens up things for those in land locked areas so they can haul large loads too.

 

Will everyone have one?  Sure, why not.  Many will build them just because they can, not because they need one.  That's what happens every time a new item is added.  So what?

 

As to the Gypsy wagon you can sleep in, that has about as much chance happening as tents or sleeping bags; little to none.  Sorry.

[Marshlander 188]

Will everyone have one?  Sure, why not.  Many will build them just because they can, not because they need one.  That's what happens every time a new item is added.  So what?

I'd very much like the ability to transport more goods via road (mountain deed owner here). It's just when developer time is being used on things which will have fancier graphics, provide tons more utility and added bonuses (speed) to something which already exists in game, it's important to point out that this addition could be designed more intelligently - to provide a high-level item/vehicle that will not automatically supersede its predecessor in every way imaginable (of course it should be better in many ways).

 

When the item is already in game and has been sold & bought by a lot of people, we will have much drama when it's going to be ninja nerfed again. Better to nerf the concept before it gets included in the first place, right?

Edited December 15, 2013 by Marshlander

[KaiH 1,126]

It is a transport vehicle..

at this time it allows only a commander and a ton of space for goods - it is not a battle wagon to transport the troops to the field.

[Radni 1,089]

I just hope I can put cabbages in the wagon. MYCABBAGES!

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

The purpose of the new wagons is pretty clear: to provide a land-based mass-haul option.

I am however iffy regarding the supposed superior speeds. It makes no sense to have the wagons be faster than carts, and it isn't necessary for their intended purpose either: Wagons have the advantage of already being tied to land, eliminating an additional loading/unloading step. The top speed equivalent of large carts is all the wagon needs to fill the niche of "land-cog".

Edited December 15, 2013 by EliasTheCrimson

[AlexLong 128]

We actually discussed that problem with the devs in the  Work in progress thread about the wagon , and the devs said:

I thought that was more to do with sickness than all of them eating.

[Jenshiye 146]

I just hope I can put cabbages in the wagon. MYCABBAGES!

 

Atrox?

[Druidnature 1,118]

Wagons are a godsend.

No need to say anymore, if you can't see the reason they will be very valuable to land folk...not my problem >_<

[Jenshiye 146]

If you can't see the reason they will be very valuable to land folk...not my problem >_<

 

I see why people like them. I also see them as having the wrong mesh, textures, speed and how games become less fun when they get closer and closer to being as unchallenging as tiddly-winks.

[Druidnature 1,118]

Yes, because taking 20 hours to move 2k dirt is completely fun, right?

Sorry, I play for the challenge. But I don't play for the traveling challenge (unless you give me exp for it, hehe) I've got better things to do on all my characters then waste time with going back and forth for 100's of loads. That's not fun for anyone.