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Isosceles

Get Rid Of The Tutorial!

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When I first started wurm, I was thrown out into this new dark world where I had no idea what was going on. It was ****'n awesome! I realize that this exact experience is why many people stopped playing wurm within the first few hours of game play. The tutorial was created to fix this.


 


However, I argue that it does not fix the problem. Instead, it has created a tedious and clumsy process that all players have to gruel through before they can start enjoying the game. I have made a new alt recently and despite the few fixes it is still boring and now even less informative. We get plenty of new players in the global chats asking basic questions. And the community is friendly and helps them. So, I ask, what is the point of forcing them through that maze of pop up boxes?


 


So, if not the tutorial, then what?


 


I would suggest that during the sign up process the wurmpedia is repeatedly touted as a resource. And soon as you log in for the first time, a single pop up comes up welcoming you to Wurm, telling you about /shout and the wurmpedia, and having a few quick suggestions on how to get started. 


 


Then let them figure it out from there. It is a survival sand box after all.


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It's not only meant as an introduction to the game, it's also a filter to get rid of the laziest of griefers.

In my honest opinion though it needs a complete revamp, but it should definitely not be removed. It shouldn't focus so much on activities but rather on how to interact with the GUI and how to use the wiki.

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Wurm plays like a long movie.


 


You have to just take it easy and not expect to see and understand it all.


You need to be a bit humble.


Then in time adventure will teach you all you need to know.


 


I dont think any players fully understand the Wurm world or have seen every valley and cave.


 


For the rest we have youtube

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Wurm plays like a long movie.

 

You have to just take it easy and not expect to see and understand it all.

You need to be a bit humble.

Then in time adventure will teach you all you need to know.

 

I dont think any players fully understand the Wurm world or have seen every valley and cave.

 

For the rest we have youtube

 

A bit poetic, but this is kinda what I am getting at. Just let them start experiencing it. The wurmpedia and community will do more then any tutorial.

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When I first started wurm, I was thrown out into this new dark world where I had no idea what was going on. It was ****'n awesome! I realize that this exact experience is why many people stopped playing wurm within the first few hours of game play. The tutorial was created to fix this.


 


However, I argue that it does not fix the problem. Instead, it has created a tedious and clumsy process that all players have to gruel through before they can start enjoying the game. I have made a new alt recently and despite the few fixes it is still boring and now even less informative. We get plenty of new players in the global chats asking basic questions. And the community is friendly and helps them. So, I ask, what is the point of forcing them through that maze of pop up boxes?


 


So, if not the tutorial, then what?


 


I would suggest that during the sign up process the wurmpedia is repeatedly touted as a resource. And soon as you log in for the first time, a single pop up comes up welcoming you to Wurm, telling you about /shout and the wurmpedia, and having a few quick suggestions on how to get started. 


 


Then let them figure it out from there. It is a survival sand box after all.



 



 


 


ok 


* incoming pun *


 


Drop all new charaters on random server at random places without any information 


 


 


* Reality check *


tutorials are required for game styles that are not the run of the mill design.


sure FPS there nearly the same handling/control layout/ui


 


wurm doesn't fit the drop in and go format.


Edited by Notsodirt
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Thats how I started and I enjoyed it. But I also did the research and asked questions. 


 


Can you honestly say the tutorial enriched your game play experience?


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Thats how I started and I enjoyed it. But I also did the research and asked questions. 


 


Can you honestly say the tutorial enriched your game play experience?



 



 


is the tutorial fun . no


is the UI like the standard market of games . no


could the tutorial be better yes.


 


there still in the process of redoing it.


Edited by Notsodirt

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yes, if they are implementing 'pick at your leisure' newbie missions instead. (with rewards like food refill and newbie tools)


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I remember when i started, being dropped in GV with no clue, i don't think it could even be classed as a tutorial at that point, and i think i ignored it anyway lol, i muddled through, used the wiki, and i'm still here today :P


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yes, if they are implementing 'pick at your leisure' newbie missions instead. (with rewards like food refill and newbie tools)

 

Thats what I'd love to see brought back (used to be the case)

 

I remember when i started, being dropped in GV with no clue, i don't think it could even be classed as a tutorial at that point, and i think i ignored it anyway lol, i muddled through, used the wiki, and i'm still here today :P

 

Thats how I got here :) been playing for 4-5 years! The community and wiki is what makes this game.

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I've brought this up before but the tutorial should only cover the most basic things you need to know like movement, controlling the view, and how you do basic interactions with the world and objects in it. Then it should branch into specialized tutorials and the portal out. So the new player can learn about different things wurm has to offer and learn about them specifically and ignore stuff they're not interested in yet and portal out any time after the basic stuff. Players should also be able to portal back into the tutorial zone later if they want a refresher or are trying something new and need a bit of assistance.

Using it as a filter is also going to filter out people legitimately interested in the game and want to see the game itself a bit without running through a tutorial. They may just be sampling different games of the genre to see what piques their interest before committing to any major learning.

yes, if they are implementing 'pick at your leisure' newbie missions instead. (with rewards like food refill and newbie tools)

Yeah games that integrate the learning process into the gameplay itself are much more enjoyable than a dry tutorial, particularly if it's optional stuff. Some people do prefer trial and error rather than reading walls of text on things they have no context for yet.

Edited by Theodis

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Wurm plays like a long movie.

 

You have to just take it easy and not expect to see and understand it all.

You need to be a bit humble.

Then in time adventure will teach you all you need to know.

 

That was awesome.

 

As for the tutorial...I agree with the others who said it should focus on how to interact with objects and the wiki, instead of teaching specific skills etc.

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-1


 


Removing tutorial would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater... Fix it, don't remove it.


 


If any game needs a good tutorial, it's Wurm!


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It's not uncommon recently for players to ask in GL-Freedom "how do I make stuff". This was because the crafting got removed from the tutorial. Players didn't know that CA Help was the place to ask, and so one of the first things they really learnt about Wurm was that people can be quite insulting in GL-Freedom (and also have no requirement to answer honestly).


 


A tutorial is required to cover the basics, even if it is just movement, the interface, where to get information from (CA HELP, wiki), and where the rules are.


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thing is our tutorial is wall and wall and wall of texts and long that people just don't bother... force them to read a few lines to start and then let them learn on theirs own speed and maybe we will see better retention...


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I think the tutorial is needed but only to teach players the basics of Wurm and to keep griefers from spamming accounts but like many of you I remember when I first started 4ish years ago, the experience I had on GV was pretty much like no other. I got attacked by a lion threw my sword at it, ran down a hill and eventually got lost until I finally found out where I was 4 months later. In my opinion that was what really got me hooked into Wurm, the fact that the map seemed so large even for GV and I had to learn everything I knew from the wiki and my 1 friend that I met. Now this is obviously not the way every single player wants to start out a game but that is just my opinion on it :D


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Teach them about swimming and last gasp, climbing, about the high risk of death involve with any combat early on. Teach them about the different chat channels and how to use the wiki. Explain basic concepts of how to craft, fight, and heal, and build a home.

Then branch out to eventually have a tutorial-type monogame for each and every skill in the game. All optional so players can make the decision whether they want to lean about something or not. The minigames can be short and simple. They just need to explain the concepts and rewards of each skill

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They are already planning/working on a new tutorial.


 


Afaik, the tutorial will have a basic section that leads to the central area with the portals and optional sections.


 


In addition the game will get a hints system that will pop up, whenever you use a gui element or do an action for the first time.


 


The Crafting gui has a more intuitive setup and guiding system (sort of a recipes books)


 


And as a note: Anyone can improve on the game information that is drawn from the wiki.


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Isosceles, on 25 Nov 2013 - 4:00 PM, said:

When I first started wurm, I was thrown out into this new dark world where I had no idea what was going on. It was ****'n awesome! I realize that this exact experience is why many people stopped playing wurm within the first few hours of game play. The tutorial was created to fix this.

However, I argue that it does not fix the problem. Instead, it has created a tedious and clumsy process that all players have to gruel through before they can start enjoying the game. I have made a new alt recently and despite the few fixes it is still boring and now even less informative. We get plenty of new players in the global chats asking basic questions. And the community is friendly and helps them. So, I ask, what is the point of forcing them through that maze of pop up boxes?

So, if not the tutorial, then what?

I would suggest that during the sign up process the wurmpedia is repeatedly touted as a resource. And soon as you log in for the first time, a single pop up comes up welcoming you to Wurm, telling you about /shout and the wurmpedia, and having a few quick suggestions on how to get started.

Then let them figure it out from there. It is a survival sand box after all.

I positively agree with you about the wiki viewer in-game. I've met a lot of new players who hadn't even used it. It's vital, though. Another problem is the wiki viewer in-game is not fully functional. It frequently and consistently only shows partially parsed formatting, so the document is actually hard to read and/or to decipher. I do not understand why it has not been fixed since not only have I seen new players get confused by it but I find myself having to use the browser because the in-game viewer is too inadequate. Unfortunatley, I get the feeling the community and hte creators of this game are not interested in improving it because they're stuck on this idea the game should be more quest/mission-driven and have a much more expansive GUI with a revamped item and crafting system.

Rather than depending on spread out and hard to find information about certain things, what they'll do is just cut out those things and put what's left in a newly made GUI. People won't need a wiki in-game anymore. Details that require us to read the wiki will be eliminated. Basically, a streamlining team will be assigned to this task. If they're not already doing this then they will eventually because it's a common tactic in the industry.

I don't like it. Why? Because I get the feeling we're moving away from the more humble roots of this game. The wiki gives the game a very humble feel and also allows the players to be actively involved in creating and maintaining the help system. This frees up the developers to develop the game, rather than streamline it or create elaborate expensive help systems that will indelibly require extra development everytime something new is added.

I myself love the details. I actually like Wurm Logic because it feels rewarding when I learn something unique about something in the game. It's like discovering a new spice. These kinds of details will be removed when and if they streamline. Streamlining effectively means you never (or rarely) have to wonder or search for help about something. I don't like that because it means only linear and immediately understandable things are put in the game. Anything that's confusing or more complicated because it involves multiple things will be thrown out with the trash.

One of the first things I'd do is enable links inside the in-game wiki so they can be clicked and to have a Welcome page when you press H that shows the most popular guides, especially ones for new players. Then I'd put a checkbox on the page and if the player checks it then the guides will not be displayed. I'd do this because maybe some people don't want to see the extra stuff everytime they press H to enter a search text. After that I'd enable the viewing of tables and other elements to be found in the wiki pages that're currently parsed only minimally.

But anyway my post is wasted breathe. I know exactly what's going to happen. A revamped GUI with the details removed and a whole lot of celebrating the greatness of it. The bean counters will win. You know, the people who fund it? They want growth and they know a streamlined game is the doorway to riches. You don't need a college degree to know streamlined games please tens of millions of gamers and attract investors.

I know exactly what will happen because it happens with virtually every game I've played. They get tempted by the money and the sweet talking and start doubting themselves and then they jump ship and go on the bandwagon and from there on out they lose their originality and become just another stooge for the profiteers.

The irony and hurt is that players would rejoice if this game was streamlined. That's what gets me. For me it'd be a sad day and yet most players would be singing hymns and preaching of the wonders of it all. Everytime the game gained another 100 players it'd be another nail in my coffin and there'd be no stopping it. Fact is, there're millions of players that want it and only a few that don't. If you fight it you're fighting something you can't win. There's just one way: don't fight it, instead find a small group of people like yourself and make the game the way you always dreamed of. Not for profit and not for fame, but purely for the enjoyment and satisfaction of being yourself.

NOTE: One possible way to improve the wiki in-game without too much effort is just allow the player to view the current in-game wiki page in a browser. There's already an example of this when the player can copy a link in hte chat and see this in the browser. Why can't the same method be used in the wiki for the current page? It'd be useful when the page can't work right or isn't displaying right because it'd be quicker than going to the browser manually.

EDIT: I just checked in-game and (for the first time) clicked on the "Edit this description" button which brought me to the editing function in the browser. All I had to do was click on "return to XXXXXX" to view the actual page. I propose another button be added which says "Show in browser," so it's clearer what you can do.

Edited by Lightonfoot

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+ 1 To removing the tutorial but it has to be replaced by something better. 


 


How about a tips system, it's one of the things Wurm could copy from other MMOs. Drop new players in a tutorial zone, something like GV or smaller. Let them craft, dig shop trees etc at their own pace without huge ugly popup dialogs. Just some friendly tips. At any time, let people choose a portal and go into the real game. 


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+ 1 To removing the tutorial but it has to be replaced by something better. 

 

How about a tips system, it's one of the things Wurm could copy from other MMOs. Drop new players in a tutorial zone, something like GV or smaller. Let them craft, dig shop trees etc at their own pace without huge ugly popup dialogs. Just some friendly tips. At any time, let people choose a portal and go into the real game.

A tips system would be cool for the game, in general, not just for a tutorial.

This whole tutorial thing shouldn't be taken too far. At some point you have to tell a player to go out on their own and deal with adversity and s*** that falls on their path. Tutorials that're too structured just do the opposite of what they're intended to do, since Wurm Online outside hte tutorial isn't structured like that at all.

Players are learning LONG AFTER they leave hte tutorial. I still learn new things frequently even though I started last year. Should I be playing a tutorial? WHEN should the tutorial end? When does the learning stop and how much do we need to know? This whole thing CAN go on too far and actually make things worse.

The things I went through in my first 24 hours!!! I started last year. Yet I enjoyed it so much!! I know for some players it's too much, but for many more players, THE SANDBOX WILL BE TOO MUCH. And this is a point that gets missed too often, if not intentionally. Many players want a quest/mission-driven game. They'll not be happy with Wurm Online. I'm not using this as an excuse to avoid improving the tutorial, but it's something we should be mindful of.

I get the feeling most people won't be happy until they're told what to do. This game just gives too much freedom and too little direction for them. And that's without considering things like having to do corpse runs or being able to lose items you drop on the ground or slipping and falling down a hill and not having any cotton to heal and even if you do it requiring a lot of time to fully heal. Maybe you got mauled by a huge spider. There're so many things to kill a player early on or to make life hard on them. If they don't thrive on it then they will quit and it won't be because they didn't like the tutorial. You can't fix this without changing the game at its very core and redefining it.

I think using hte tutorial as a culprit for everything deemed wrong is just a copout. The reality is these people do not like this kind of game and the tutorial is just a means to start changing the game.

Before too long, you won't even be able to do anything without doing quests. Your hand will be held every step of the way. You won't need to know how to build a house, either. It'll be as easy as clicking the mouse. Literally, click the mouse and select house and BAM a house plan is created. It'll be a universal build tool like the mallet or hammer, but it'll be more recognizeable and you can't lose it or drop it. A popup will display what you need. So when you build something it'll be like a quest and it'll update as you progress just like quests do. There'll be an "Unfinished Projects" window that shows unfinished things you've made; houses, carts, boats, etc. The GUI will enable you to click on the materials needed for each project and their wiki page will popup. Sounds nice eh? It does until you realize hand holding will be everywhere and quests will be a primary means to push players in certain directions, so they don't get lost. This is what happens whne games mature. They make everything accessible and .... too safe. The irony is we seek sandbox games for freedom, but yet most can't handle it or don't find it fun, and so...

Oh and... there'll be no more corpse runs. Apparently players don't like negative consequences. Most animals and monsters won't attack you, unless they're attacked. Only the (rarely seen) kos animals/monsters will be social in combat. Much combat will happen as hte result of quests which will lead you to spawned events that guarantee minimal frustration. Healing will be nearly instant and you'll be able to swim indefinitely without drowning. Night-time will be considerably brighter than it's now. The in-game map will be expanded to include the dynamic locations of "public" deeds and guard towers and will also show quest indicators and the global position of yourself. (Note: It will also show private deeds if the player is a member of that deed.) The compass will no longer be in your inventory, but will be integrated with all characters on an equal basis. On and on and on the hand holding will go. You also won't lose skill when you die. In fact, if you can think of a negative consequence, chances are it won't be there.

Some people will be like "Hey, those are good ideas!" But not me. I'd rather not have an in-game map at all. And I want the seasons to be tougher. I want to have to water my farm. I want the weather to kill my crops sometimes and I want various problems to arise from multiple directions. NO hand holding, or as little as possible. Yes, most players would hate it and wouldn't want it, but I would. This is based on my past experience with games. I tend to like games that don't have hand holding. I just like to be in the thick of it. Harshness connects me to the world.

Edited by Lightonfoot

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I dont think it should be removed, rather a system should take place where if you registered at least 2 characters to an email and at least 1 have went trough the tutorial the rest should be able to skip it. But i remember getting teleported to the end of the tutorial with an alt not long ago so how does this work then? 


 


 




+ 1 To removing the tutorial but it has to be replaced by something better. 


 


How about a tips system, it's one of the things Wurm could copy from other MMOs. Drop new players in a tutorial zone, something like GV or smaller. Let them craft, dig shop trees etc at their own pace without huge ugly popup dialogs. Just some friendly tips. At any time, let people choose a portal and go into the real game. 



 



Perhaps a free roaming tutorial where you get pop ups but free to do whatever you want in a safe zone? Including leaving, that would bring up a huge warning 


Edited by atazs

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They are already planning/working on a new tutorial.

 

Afaik, the tutorial will have a basic section that leads to the central area with the portals and optional sections.

 

In addition the game will get a hints system that will pop up, whenever you use a gui element or do an action for the first time.

 

The Crafting gui has a more intuitive setup and guiding system (sort of a recipes books)

 

And as a note: Anyone can improve on the game information that is drawn from the wiki.

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-1 i think the new tutorial system is really helpful yes there is alot of us with alts, maybe a option to skip tutorial but i dont think it should be removed.


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