New Map System - Sockmap!

[joedobo 1,187]

I wanted to do something like this but I lack the JavaScript skills.  I had started the project using Construct2.

 

suggestions...

Put those huge background pngs client side. 1) Use something like Node-webkit to make an app that is capable of using files in the user's directory. 2) Perhaps use an IndexedDB to store these files.

What I was thinking is to use Node-Webkit grab those huge png files and load them as a background. Require that the user download and place the png's in a specific file.Then, use websockets to fetch JSON formated layer data from the server. This data would be things like highway layer, deed layer, POI layer, minor roads layer, account unique layer. 

 

 

Anyway, its really cool to see someone has started down this path!

 

Edited November 23, 2013 by joedobo

[silakka 2,360]

This has very big potential.

Cant wait to see what future holds for this amazing system!

[joedobo 1,187]

- Use transparent deed markers that are the size of the deed + perimeter.

 

[Radni 1,089]

-1 -1 -1 -1

 

I do NOT like that your place/deed can be added without your permission, and I do NOT like that people can spam whatever markers they want. I.E the Serenity map, wtf is with all the Desu marks.

 

This will, in my opinion, never be used by anyone with PVP in mind.

[Milosanx 716]

Love this! only thing i can say is :

Marker for deeds doesn't seem to go exactly where you place it, seem sto go a bit north.

Is there anyway to delete a marker and redo?

Only thing is the permission thing with people that do not want their deeds added. There is no way to police this. the only thing they can rely on is people only adding deeds that are on the community map.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Milosanx

[JacobKukuk 14]

Update Nov 22:
1) Ability to zoom out to see full map added.

2) If someone adds a marker to a map everyone currently viewing it will be notified.

3) Progress made on anti grief system, should be done soon. Thinking how it will work is when you create a profile it will send a message to your forum message box with a confirmation link you will click, like if you confirmed an email.

4) Added marker type display.

5) Made corrections to inital screen spelling error "Coder" to "Code".

6) Lowered size of maps, should load faster.

 

Still more to come, looking to have the ability to add roads soon.

[Ayes 3,715]

I used to be vicero but created a new charecter so I could move over to pristine. In terms of why i'm making this map system? Because the person who updates the pristine map is not updating so it makes sence to give the tools for others to make the changes without a barrier. Not sure why you would be cautious just because of a map? Not asking for money or putting ads. Heck I dont want your money I get my servers for free. I just want a better mapping approach rather than photoshop static pictures.

 

Thanks for the response. That is somewhat reassuring then. We shall see how it all works out over time as mapping the servers is a process that covers years of timelines and needs dedication within that future frame of reference; otherwise as you have seen once the person that dedicated themselves to the task decides to abandon it the situation then devolves into a static state, which is why I am always leery of some new lesser known individual deciding they are up to the task long term. This is not to say I would ever consider doing it myself, just that I understand the implications in terms of commitment that are involved. Time will tell.....

 

=Ayes=

[eTag 8]

you lost your detail in the maps when you zoom in

[joedobo 1,187]

I"m guessing Jacob reduced the file detail to shrink the sizes. Those high detail 5 mb png's kill bandwidth and slows download times. This has always been a problem with maps. 

 

Can we cache them and have a load screen explain it will only be slow the first time loading (assuming the user doesn't clear web browser cache for Sockmap)?

 

So how can we store those large background png's cleint side?

Web Storage...5 mb is not big enough, WebSQL...doesn't work with Firefox (from what I understand Mozilla doesn't want to support it anymore), IndexDB...I not really familiar with this. Also with the data bases you have to store big string type blobs and then convert them back to png's. Maybe some sort of hybrid offline-online caching system. 

 

http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/offline/storage/

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/02/storing-images-and-files-in-indexeddb/

Edited November 23, 2013 by joedobo

[Jberg 3,070]

Moved to Toolbelt. Good luck on your project!

[JacobKukuk 14]

I"m guessing Jacob reduced the file detail to shrink the sizes. Those high detail 5 mb png's kill bandwidth and slows download times. This has always been a problem with maps. 

 

Can we cache them and have a load screen explain it will only be slow the first time loading (assuming the user doesn't clear web browser cache for Sockmap)?

 

So how can we store those large background png's cleint side?

Web Storage...5 mb is not big enough, WebSQL...doesn't work with Firefox (from what I understand Mozilla doesn't want to support it anymore), IndexDB...I not really familiar with this. Also with the data bases you have to store big string type blobs and then convert them back to png's. Maybe some sort of hybrid offline-online caching system. 

 

http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/offline/storage/

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2012/02/storing-images-and-files-in-indexeddb/

 

Yea this will be a tricky one. I'm working on another method, most likely based on zoom but web rendering is top down so... May have to just input a loading screen or bump up quality to where its fast enough but still has some quality. I have done DB image storage and seen simular load times. May just do background preload. Using NodeJS & socket.io for serving the content.

[Kegan 3,926]

Well i have took a quick look and i have a few things that i think need changed..

 

1: Settlement color needs to be somthing other than blue it blends in to much with the water you need something high contrast. 

2: Text needs better coloring as well it needs to be a better contrast too.

3: I know you have/plan on having a search function but having a grid x/y static marker system i think would help people transition over from the old maps better and a second option is always nice anyway. 

Edited November 24, 2013 by Kegan

[Roggeh 44]

Consider using the legend from the community maps like celebration for its icons?

Edited November 24, 2013 by Roggeh

[JacobKukuk 14]

Consider using the legend from the community maps like celebration for its icons?

 

Great idea, will migrate to that standard.

[Druidnature 1,118]

Seems like a very good idea, cheers to hoping using this soon (i'll take a better look when roads go in)

[Kegan 3,926]

The new legend is good but the settlement names seem to be under the markers a ways. It might not be a big deal at first but as more markers get added it might cause trouble knowing what name goes with what marker. 

 

Edit: Well i guess it has more to do with the scaling of the markers as you zoom in..idk

Edited November 24, 2013 by Kegan

[Snowtech 50]

Very nice

looking forward to see way of drawing roads and canals too.

 

When zooming in/out, the centre of the square should stay at the deed position, now it seems to centre somewhere between the square and the label.

 

Snow

[Archaed 2,280]

Its a nice system, but I don't think it will fully work for a few reasons.

 

First of all, these map dumps are quite old, and much of the landscape has changed, tundra disappearing, steppe appearing rolling hills becoming flat land and vice versa. This could of course be updated with a new map dump, but we haven't had any indication of whether that would happen, and the same issue will occur down the road.

 

Secondly, with anyone being able to place what they want in, you're bound to come across trolls. Independence already has "INDY SUCKS LOLOL" placed in crystal lake, its the reason why theres only been one updater in the past, the general masses cant be trusted.

 

Finally, we have the issue of someone marking deeds that the owners dont want placed. There is no accountability for placing whatever on this map, anyone can go for  walk and simply add every deed they cross. It is an important thing that deeds that do not wish to be listed aren't, we have to respect the players privacy. If one person starts listing multiple deeds in the community map thread, it does raise questions as to whether this person is the owner of those deeds, and breaching someones privacy can be avoided.

 

The maps could also be improved with a co-ordinate system, as players who do not wish to be on the map can still guide others to their location by simply giving the co-ordinates out.

 

I do think this method has merit, and can be used to give rough ideas, but i think the community maps operated by one person are inherently more accurate and less prone to unreliability.

[Zapacila 63]

Archaed,

 

The very arguments were told when Wikipedia appeared - masses can't be trusted and there is no such thing as an accurate encyclopedia without an official curator.

 

Yet nowadays we are where we are with Wikipedia being better, more informative, more accurate and more actual than any other Encyclopedia maintained only by a selected group of people.

 

Not to mention out own wurmpedia, which is maintained by a team of volunteers, not by a single person which curates any information.

 

Really... I think we should be a bit less control freaks and just give more credit to the community as a whole that it will be able to solve the potential problems that might (and will) appear.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Zapacila

[Roggeh 44]

I think people that are doing the current community maps should get map maker privileges or something on this line; That way, they can delete troll objects and maybe even ban someone from posting(Have some kind of log in to be able to do this.)

[Emane 158]

 

 

Yet nowadays we are where we are with Wikipedia being better, more informative, more accurate and more actual than any other Encyclopedia maintained only by a selected group of people.

 

 

 

 

ROFL really? Wikki's are definitely NOT and NEVER WILL BE reputable sources of information! Even the WORST colleges wont accept mentioning one as a source on a paper without being laughed out of the class as the rest prove information on it to be less than accurate. 

[JacobKukuk 14]

Its a nice system, but I don't think it will fully work for a few reasons.

 

First of all, these map dumps are quite old, and much of the landscape has changed, tundra disappearing, steppe appearing rolling hills becoming flat land and vice versa. This could of course be updated with a new map dump, but we haven't had any indication of whether that would happen, and the same issue will occur down the road.

 

Secondly, with anyone being able to place what they want in, you're bound to come across trolls. Independence already has "INDY SUCKS ###### LOLOL" placed in crystal lake, its the reason why theres only been one updater in the past, the general masses cant be trusted.

 

Finally, we have the issue of someone marking deeds that the owners dont want placed. There is no accountability for placing whatever on this map, anyone can go for  walk and simply add every deed they cross. It is an important thing that deeds that do not wish to be listed aren't, we have to respect the players privacy. If one person starts listing multiple deeds in the community map thread, it does raise questions as to whether this person is the owner of those deeds, and breaching someones privacy can be avoided.

 

The maps could also be improved with a co-ordinate system, as players who do not wish to be on the map can still guide others to their location by simply giving the co-ordinates out.

 

I do think this method has merit, and can be used to give rough ideas, but i think the community maps operated by one person are inherently more accurate and less prone to unreliability.

 

Map Dumps - That has been a age old problem even with the static maps... We all just assume its part of wurm life. Didnt know we are running a per inch accuracy map where every footstep is marked. ;-)

 

Everyone Can add - As of right now anyone can add, I am working on a anti greif system that will handle those problems though a type of validation, unsure on how it should work yet, will come soon. If someone misuses the map, they just are no longer allowed to use it, simple.

 

Placing Anyones Deed - From what I read on the wiki Deeds are not confidential otherwise you wouldnt create one. It is broadcasted to everyone when created or disbanded. Anyone who walks by see's it. Nothing good or bad comes out of knowing where it is other than being on PvP but than again it just takes word of mouth. Also if privacy is a concern why are they on the internet, i'm sure they have used google and that is far worse than knowing where a deed is.

 

One person operation - I thought the same till I suggested my map edit and personal interests or just they dont edit it anymore comes into play. Atleast with this system we have many backups that can improve the reliability compaired to single manager static maps. I dont like the idea where one single person maintains a map, this is afterall a community effort.

 

My final words, would you like a hug? lol

[JacobKukuk 14]

ROFL really? Wikki's are definitely NOT and NEVER WILL BE reputable sources of information! Even the WORST colleges wont accept mentioning one as a source on a paper without being laughed out of the class as the rest prove information on it to be less than accurate. 

 

so is this now a debate on if wikki articles are reputable? Dont jack this post pls. ;-) *sings* Lets talk about maps baby, lets talk about you and maps, lets talk about... maps...

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

If a deed owner doesn't wish their deed on the map then it shouldn't be there, end of story.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Shrimpiie

[JacobKukuk 14]

If a deed owner doesn't wish their deed on the map then it shouldn't be there, end of story.

 

But explain why. Like for example property owners in Real Life are public information. If wurm deeds were made on the concept of ownership of an area what is not to say that information cannot be public to the interests of others?  I'm not seeing a problem nor any rules that say I have to turn a blind eye to someones deed because they say so. I can say in freedom chat where some deed is randomly and who cares? What is so private about a virtual land ownership?