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Dran

Easy-Ish Reforms Improve The Npc Trader/merchant Experience

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Problem #1 (NPC traders): Publicly accessible traders are difficult to find any more.  When you do find one, it has no money and requires exact change to trade.  Traders in this state won't allow a trade unless change is exact.


 Solution: Add a "keep the change" checkbox to the trading dialog.  If I want to trade 11 iron worth of cotton for a 10 iron spindle that the trader has, I should be allowed to. 


 


Problem #2 (NPC merchants): Although their new models are great, merchants largely all look the same and it's miserable trying to find one that's well stocked, never knowing which have been abandoned. 


 Solution: The merchant should vanish or somehow visually "close shop" when they are empty/abandoned/poorly updated/poorly stocked.


 


Problem #3 (NPC merchants): Areas with many merchants (freedom market, etc.) or poorly located merchants waste a lot of players' time to locate what they are looking to buy.


 Solution: Merchants could be linked within a 20 tile radius so in places where there are dozens of them the player doesn't have spend all day locating them all and going back and forth trying to compare prices.  A column could be shown in the merchant's interface identifying the name of the merchant the particular goods are on (so the seller still gets represented to the buyer). 


 Solution2: A different spin on this is that the merchant interface becomes available to players within a certain distance of a merchant.  Essentially you could ride into the center of town and launch the interface via a button on your screen, it would let you cycle through the wares of nearby merchants, buy what you want, and ride off into the sunset.


 


Problem #4 (NPC traders): All traders in my area are inaccessible to the public.


 Solution: Traders should be publicly accessible. See Problem #3 Solution#2 - allow a GUI-accessible interface to become available whenever the player is within a certain distance of a trader. 


 


 


 


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Problem #1 (NPC traders): Publicly accessible traders are difficult to find any more.  When you do find one, it has no money and requires exact change to trade.  Traders in this state won't allow a trade unless change is exact.

 Solution: Add a "keep the change" checkbox to the trading dialog.  If I want to trade 11 iron worth of cotton for a 10 iron spindle that the trader has, I should be allowed to. 

 

Problem #2 (NPC merchants): Although their new models are great, merchants largely all look the same and it's miserable trying to find one that's well stocked, never knowing which have been abandoned. 

 Solution: The merchant should vanish or somehow visually "close shop" when they are empty/abandoned/poorly updated/poorly stocked.

 

Problem #3 (NPC merchants): Areas with many merchants (freedom market, etc.) or poorly located merchants waste a lot of players' time to locate what they are looking to buy.

 Solution: Merchants could be linked within a 20 tile radius so in places where there are dozens of them the player doesn't have spend all day locating them all and going back and forth trying to compare prices.  A column could be shown in the merchant's interface identifying the name of the merchant the particular goods are on (so the seller still gets represented to the buyer). 

 Solution2: A different spin on this is that the merchant interface becomes available to players within a certain distance of a merchant.  Essentially you could ride into the center of town and launch the interface via a button on your screen, it would let you cycle through the wares of nearby merchants, buy what you want, and ride off into the sunset.

 

Problem #4 (NPC traders): All traders in my area are inaccessible to the public.

 Solution: Traders should be publicly accessible. See Problem #3 Solution#2 - allow a GUI-accessible interface to become available whenever the player is within a certain distance of a trader. 

#3/4 - Sounds like a lazy-mans tool to me, it is not all that hard to figure out what Merchants have what, and usually are labeled with their goods. Traders on the other hand, many are private for a reason, and you should not be able to have instant access to them. People keep them private so other players don't mess up the ratio on them.

 

Also, there are always Public Traders in the starter town, granted they are usually out of money, that shouldn't matter as there are many an easier ways to get money in the game.

Edited by Shrimpiie

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#1 - Using 11i to buy a 10c item? May want to recheck the math there ;)

 

#3/4 - Sounds like a lazy-mans tool to me, it is not all that hard to figure out what Merchants have what, and usually are labeled with their goods. Traders on the other hand, many are private for a reason, and you should not be able to have instant access to them. People keep them private so other players don't mess up the ratio on them.

 

Also, there are always Public Traders in the starter town, granted they are usually out of money, that shouldn't matter as there are many an easier ways to get money in the game.

 

I'll recheck my math when you recheck your reading :blink:

 

It's my belief that the intention of traders was to be public.  I view what happens with most of them now as basically being uncorrected abuse of a flawed implementation.  Pay money upfront to leech free money back out of the economy forever.  Too many people would be mad if their "money tree" was taken away, so it never gets reformed.  I'd love to hear if Rolf considers the way they're used now as "working as intended".  Regardless, I think it's a poor system.

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It's my belief... I view ... I think ...

 

This is the problem - it's your view. I happen to agree, but it's not something that is "broken" and every indication suggests Rolf sees it as an intended mechanic.

 

So -1 for #4 as I don't think that would be the right implementation anyway.

 

+1 to #1

+1 to #2 if the merchant stall showed a visual difference when there is at least 1 item present.

-1 to #3 I don't think this would be necessary if #2 was done right. Also some people may want both private and public merchants, which would be impossible with this "aura".

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I'll recheck my math when you recheck your reading :blink:

 

It's my belief that the intention of traders was to be public.  I view what happens with most of them now as basically being uncorrected abuse of a flawed implementation.  Pay money upfront to leech free money back out of the economy forever.  Too many people would be mad if their "money tree" was taken away, so it never gets reformed.  I'd love to hear if Rolf considers the way they're used now as "working as intended".  Regardless, I think it's a poor system.

I'll take a full refund on all my Traders.

 

Use the search function, this isn't even close to the first time Traders have been brought up.

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I'll recheck my math when you recheck your reading :blink:

Well, I am sincerely sorry about that, I have not the faintest idea how I managed to read 10 copper from that statement :P

Editing my previous post.

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You can get exact change from the bank, theres a deed token at the starter towns where you can do this, and theres also merchants in there.


 


People keep them private because they can, if you implement a 20 tile radio availablitiy, people will simply make 41x41 tile enclosure around them.


 


-1


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Problem #1 (NPC traders): Publicly accessible traders are difficult to find any more.  When you do find one, it has no money and requires exact change to trade.  Traders in this state won't allow a trade unless change is exact.

 Solution: Add a "keep the change" checkbox to the trading dialog.  If I want to trade 11 iron worth of cotton for a 10 iron spindle that the trader has, I should be allowed to. 

 

Problem #2 (NPC merchants): Although their new models are great, merchants largely all look the same and it's miserable trying to find one that's well stocked, never knowing which have been abandoned. 

 Solution: The merchant should vanish or somehow visually "close shop" when they are empty/abandoned/poorly updated/poorly stocked.

 

Problem #3 (NPC merchants): Areas with many merchants (freedom market, etc.) or poorly located merchants waste a lot of players' time to locate what they are looking to buy.

 Solution: Merchants could be linked within a 20 tile radius so in places where there are dozens of them the player doesn't have spend all day locating them all and going back and forth trying to compare prices.  A column could be shown in the merchant's interface identifying the name of the merchant the particular goods are on (so the seller still gets represented to the buyer). 

 Solution2: A different spin on this is that the merchant interface becomes available to players within a certain distance of a merchant.  Essentially you could ride into the center of town and launch the interface via a button on your screen, it would let you cycle through the wares of nearby merchants, buy what you want, and ride off into the sunset.

 

Problem #4 (NPC traders): All traders in my area are inaccessible to the public.

 Solution: Traders should be publicly accessible. See Problem #3 Solution#2 - allow a GUI-accessible interface to become available whenever the player is within a certain distance of a trader. 

 

#1: definitely needed as I've had so many wanting to do that but because my public trader is low on money, it can't take uneven trades. +1 to that as it helps the trader gain more "money" in terms of item value, even if by a very small amount.

#2: This could be a bit of a problem for those like me and have pc issues appear over long periods of time, for me my good pc was down for 3 months, so in that time by this idea I'd have lost a merchant if I had one. I disagree with it being a good idea par say, but maybe "relocate" the merchants to say a "storage building for the lost and missing" lol where if the players should ever return they can still put up their merchant by using the contract but only do the vanishing act say if they are inactive for over 8 months. Otherwise +1 they do cause a lot of clutter in spaces that could be refreshed with newer and active merchants.

#3: I think solution two would work best, but maybe use one of those "village recruitment" signs for this where each player owned merchant will be marked (designated A1-5 and B1-5 for example) to better show what merchants do what. I personally have my market stalls set up this exact way, A section = Armorsmith goods B section = Weapons etc. etc. I'd say it's primarily up to the owner of the market itself, but organization is nice and a sort of postboard will do just that in basically giving players a layout of what merchants sell what items. +1

#4: I disagree entirely with this one. This is because the players who pay 50s for these traders have paid a huge amount of coin for it, and use them to farm coin to get back what they used to get it. Myself included. Now I'd say if they have more then one only allow one to be locked in a building or walls. But otherwise definitely not limit their freedom of something they paid a lot of coin for. It's up to the player if they want it public or not. -1

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Having a visual indication of a fully/party stocked or empty merchants would be lovely, as would be the ability to select the type of wares displayed. Sadly that is a large quantity of new models having to be created which I think is fairly low on priority.


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1. +1


2. +1 although your suggestion itself is not specific enough to be actionable. So +? really


3. -1 This is Wurm, not Galactic Markets


4. +1 to principle -1 to proposed implementation


 


I have one public trader and one private one. I think the private trader mechanics should be removed from the game (e.g. if a Trader can't pathe to the nearest map edge without being stopped completely by walls or fences it should never get funds), and the public trader mechanics should be fixed so it takes about ten premium accounts to drain one. I've got no issues with every trader being refunded when this changeover happens.

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1. +1

2. +1 although your suggestion itself is not specific enough to be actionable. So +? really

3. -1 This is Wurm, not Galactic Markets

4. +1 to principle -1 to proposed implementation

 

I have one public trader and one private one. I think the private trader mechanics should be removed from the game (e.g. if a Trader can't pathe to the nearest map edge without being stopped completely by walls or fences it should never get funds), and the public trader mechanics should be fixed so it takes about ten premium accounts to drain one. I've got no issues with every trader being refunded when this changeover happens.

 And you expect people to go out and drop 50s on new public traders if all traders were removed and solve the problem of people not being able to find traders, outside of the starter deeds?

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 And you expect people to go out and drop 50s on new public traders if all traders were removed and solve the problem of people not being able to find traders, outside of the starter deeds?

 

What?

 

People already spend 50s on public traders. Removing the private trader scam is hardly going to REDUCE the number of public traders is it? And if the public trader mechanics are fixed so they do actually BENEFIT the deed they're planted on, more people might do it.

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What?

 

People already spend 50s on public traders. Removing the private trader scam is hardly going to REDUCE the number of public traders is it? And if the public trader mechanics are fixed so they do actually BENEFIT the deed they're planted on, more people might do it.

 and the public trader mechanics should be fixed so it takes about ten premium accounts to drain one. I've got no issues with every trader being refunded when this changeover happens.

 

You plan to refund traders and not remove them?

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If trader's where removed, a 50s refund would be very fair. With that 50s however the player would need to refund any silver collected from the trader in the time of its use, and any currency stemming from the sale of in game coin. TBH, I fail too why this broken system is still in the game, with the amount of WTB Silver forum posts, how much silver does CC even sell now?


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Problem #2 (NPC merchants): Although their new models are great, merchants largely all look the same and it's miserable trying to find one that's well stocked, never knowing which have been abandoned. 

 Solution: The merchant should vanish or somehow visually "close shop" when they are empty/abandoned/poorly updated/poorly stocked.

 

2. +1 although your suggestion itself is not specific enough to be actionable. So +? really


 

 

A "closed for business" market stall model could be made, perhaps with some sort of barricade across the front or sign in front stating as much.  And/Or the merchant NPC inside could become invisible until the shop is updated or restocked by its owner.  I'd leave it to the developers' judgement what threshold should qualify a shop to be closed for business.  You wouldn't want your merchant to close up just because you went on a week vacation.  But certainly an NPC with 0 items on it or whos owner has not logged in in >6 months could be flagged.

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Easiest reform ever, remove them entirely, have trader items available by mail order from any token. In a game which prides itself on everything being player made, NPCs take away from that.


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 and the public trader mechanics should be fixed so it takes about ten premium accounts to drain one. I've got no issues with every trader being refunded when this changeover happens.

 

You plan to refund traders and not remove them?

 

Remove them, refund them, and you will find a lot get put back, especially if the public trader mechanics are fixed.

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personally ive already lost 3 traders which is 150silver down the drain. ;) and i currently own 2 traders which was 100s cost there as well... have i made 250silver off traders? no... but thats cos im lazy and dont drain them like i should... i also offer them to my villagers usually if they want to drain them but they usually screw up the ratios. 


 


As for what i do with the money... perhaps i buy an item from someone else... and then they use that money on premium... or i have someone new who wants to play the game but not spend real life money on it... make me bricks or something... so i end up with 4-5k bricks and he ends up with premium for a month... maybe he goes on to play for years to come... rather than trying the game for a few weeks and quitting cos he thinks he won't make enough to cover premium all the time...


 


It is fair... everyone can purchase a trader... traders get a cut of money based on a total pool.... if everyone had a trader it wouldn't be as big a slice from the big pie :) The fact you dont have one and are complaining to us... doesnt make much sense to me... rolf would profit greatly if everyone spent 50s and bought a deed and trader... thats 60s atleast plus 1s upkeep per month :) and then we would all make fairly little from them compared to what we do now... which isnt that great. 


 


Traders do Not remove the idea that everything is player made... traders in fact only carry a "few" items like ressurection stones or twigs or whatever... everything else on the trader IS indeed player made. Someone had to make an item and sell it to the trader... then someone else can buy that item off it. Traders are pretty useful in that sense. 


 


I would love a keep the change button... =] or how about take funds from the bank instead of the funds on me... that would be even better. =] 


 


I like all your points though 1-4 I think traders should be customizable on looks... and or clothing. =] 


 


I also wouldnt mind a GUI to show merchants nearby with items on them for comparison... it does take a lot of time running back and forth and then u forget what merchant has what and stuff... almost need pen and paper when browsing... 


 


Also I personally wouldnt mind if traders became accessible like that... I would drain my traders every day and keep their ratios where they should be... I doubt someone else would known when mine gets money from the king or whatnot... or be able to drain them more efficiently than me... I could always put you on kos on freedom if you were becoming a nuisance. =] and on epic... I can just kill you. =] I don't see that 4th option happening though anytime soon.


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Remove them, refund them, and you will find a lot get put back, especially if the public trader mechanics are fixed.

 

Yeah I could be down to remove traders (one less npc :D ). It is a real investment though so a refund of some type would feel appropriate, like shop credit or a scaled silver payment like 50-4 per month the trader had been in game.

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Problem #4 (NPC traders): All traders in my area are inaccessible to the public.

 Solution: Traders should be publicly accessible. See Problem #3 Solution#2 - allow a GUI-accessible interface to become available whenever the player is within a certain distance of a trader. 

 

Better Solution:  Spend your own 50s, buy a trader and make it public.  Problem solved.

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Not sure if anyone noticed but traders now give change regardless of how much coin they have on them (eg if you buy a item for 1s and trade 20s to the trader it gives 19s back even if it only has 1i on it now) - this is a cool change.


 


-1 to the rest of the suggestion.


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