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Enchanting. Broken Or Overly Random?

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For what it is worth


 


50ql Statuette 


 


99 alignment


35 SD


37 Channel


36 Prayer


 9 Courier casts last night my highest was 52. my previous lows where in the 50 range, average 70


 


Not a happy Hippy here


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One problem you all seem to miss.  If enchantment were more stable, then the market would soon be flooded with high enchant items, and the market prices would plummet.  Do you really want that to happen?  Those wanting high enchant items will say yes, but those who depend on the prices to maintain their deeds and chars will say no.


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One problem you all seem to miss.  If enchantment were more stable, then the market would soon be flooded with high enchant items, and the market prices would plummet.  Do you really want that to happen?  Those wanting high enchant items will say yes, but those who depend on the prices to maintain their deeds and chars will say no.

This ^  You have no idea how many casts some players can do in a day whit high end farmers, crafters and priests in thier hands.

 

I know, I have priests, it's frustrating. But really, if high level priests could cast high enchants at will everyone would soon run around with 100+ enchanted equipment and that would take the fun out of priesthood and scavenging, PvP looting etc.

 

If something should be changed I think high end casts should be made much more difficult for low skilled chars  and then less and less difficult the higher your skill but still random and hard. But this way at least you would notice more differnence with higher skills.

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One problem you all seem to miss.  If enchantment were more stable, then the market would soon be flooded with high enchant items, and the market prices would plummet.  Do you really want that to happen?  Those wanting high enchant items will say yes, but those who depend on the prices to maintain their deeds and chars will say no.

The market is already filled with good casts, it's just a matter of what the lowest price on the market is (Epic). (Some already do casts for 50i per cast power). Imagine the market needs X casts of woa (unless some greedy people need 5x of each tool or whatever), and all the buyers together have Y amount of money. Now you're a skilled priest and cast good spells easy and fast or you're a crappy priest, so you'll do it in 5 tries or 100, nobody cares, because the market needs X number of casts, what they do care about is the price though, because the buyers have limited amount of money. So priests can either sell their cast for 50i and earn little or sell for 1c, 2c, 3c or whatever and earn more, it's all just a matter of how much you value your time and good casts and what the lowest price on the market is, because nobody wants to buy the same item for more money.

Edited by PsMaster

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This ^  You have no idea how many casts some players can do in a day whit high end farmers, crafters and priests in thier hands.

 

I know, I have priests, it's frustrating. But really, if high level priests could cast high enchants at will everyone would soon run around with 100+ enchanted equipment and that would take the fun out of priesthood and scavenging, PvP looting etc.

 

If something should be changed I think high end casts should be made much more difficult for low skilled chars  and then less and less difficult the higher your skill but still random and hard. But this way at least you would notice more differnence with higher skills.

 

 

The market is already filled with good casts, it's just a matter of what the lowest price on the market is (Epic). (Some already do casts for 50i per cast power). Imagine the market needs X casts of woa (unless some greedy people need 5x of each tool or whatever), and all the buyers together have Y amount of money. Now you're a skilled priest and cast good spells easy and fast or you're a crappy priest, so you'll do it in 5 tries or 100, nobody cares, because the market needs X number of casts, what they do care about is the price though, because the buyers have limited amount of money. So priests can either sell their cast for 50i and earn little or sell for 1c, 2c, 3c or whatever and earn more, it's all just a matter of how much you value your time and good casts and what the lowest price on the market is, because nobody wants to buy the same item for more money.

 

I am a priest, look up Vroomfondel on the WOS to see my skills.  I know just how hard it is to get really high enchants.  And I now exactly what would happen to the market if it were easier.  You think the prices you get are bad now, if high enchants were easy they would pay you 1/10th as much.

 

For those that do not know what the WOS is, it is Wurm Online Skillcompare, you can find it at http://wurm.riceri.se/

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Sorry, Vroom, I didn't mean YOU don't know, I meant the people who cry about casts being too bad :)  I was actually agreeing. Bad wording in my post there...


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I apologize too, after rereading what you said I understood, but yes, your wording threw me off.


Edited by Vroomfondel

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Both.

 

IMO, the whole system needs to be reworked. With high channeling and soul depth, you should be able to crap out high casts, and should hardly ever get low casts or fail. The randomness needs to be taken out, and skills need to make more of a difference.

 

I disagree in that it should not be only sd and channeling that matters.....

 

Faith, Religion, Soul, Soul Str, Prayer, etc, etc, as well as other main attribute skills, there are many other skills that should have a play in casting.

 

Making it as simple as you state is nothing more than spam sermons, spam gems, and spam cooking and wala insta good priest.

 

I was tired of seeing these quickly made insta casting priests and think its a good idea to change things some to reward well made characters instead of those just  quickly tossed together for casting on items.

Edited by Protunia
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I am a priest, look up Vroomfondel on the WOS to see my skills.  I know just how hard it is to get really high enchants.  And I now exactly what would happen to the market if it were easier.  You think the prices you get are bad now, if high enchants were easy they would pay you 1/10th as much.

 

For those that do not know what the WOS is, it is Wurm Online Skillcompare, you can find it at http://wurm.riceri.se/

 

That site is pretty useless in my opinion. I know twenty people that are higher than the #1 for each skill on that site. Not really a good place to rank and compare skills.

 

Why not just use a color coded priest skill dump to show skills.

 

EDIT: Does anyone know if statuette rarity effects cast chance or power?

Edited by Landrik

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I have no problem working for my skills so that is not what this is about. Such a radical change to the effectiveness of my casting is what it is about. On my 15th cast I finally got a 54 courier, That is just silly when my previous low casts were 50's.


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I'd be more than happy to grind endlessly, hell I'd even buy gems if it meant I'd see a real noticable difference in the enchant powers.


 


I don't want a priest to be a fast way to get some easy cash, but I do want me grinding skills, putting my time into something to be worth it.


I'm sure many other people want this too, not just a free ride to easy silver.


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I'd be more than happy to grind endlessly, hell I'd even buy gems if it meant I'd see a real noticable difference in the enchant powers.

 

I don't want a priest to be a fast way to get some easy cash, but I do want me grinding skills, putting my time into something to be worth it.

I'm sure many other people want this too, not just a free ride to easy silver.

 

It is. When you get high skill s- and by that I mean REALLy high skills, not 70s but 90s - you'll be able to do "good" enchants quite easily. I can make 70 power casts quite frequently and I consider those quite okay. 90s are rare, still, but they are exceptionally high casts anyways... Perhaps people simply have too high of demands when it comes to casts on their tools and weapons that they wants 90's so badly.

Edited by Alyeska

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My issue with enchanting is it seems to be reserved for long time vets and hardcore power gamers. Usually these same people also have craft skills to make the items too. Thus, there is not much new or casual games can do besides buy silver.  


 


Wurm's always had this weird cycle where elites sell silver coins for real life money to the new and casuale. Then, these buyers turn around and give the game coins back to the same people in exchange for goods. The highests skill crafters/enchanters can really capitalize on this cycle and sell many gold coins.


Stepping back and looking at the whole cycle, I think it would be better if we hurt the elites by make enchants easiers. It just seems like a better plan to please the masses then the few.


 


It doesn't matter whether its a random (skill influence) curve or some slow as molasses improvement cycle ( I'd bet folks would want enchanting to be worse than WS), the end result is some people want enchanting to be so hard that its not feasible for most players.


 


At 85 Ch, 44SD, 100 faith, ~100 alignment (sac a lot of cordage) I can easily get 70's casts. 80's are doable with some effort. 90's are too difficult by my standards. I just hope for luck with 90's.


 


p.s. I loved it when you could pump out 90's enchants with ~50's channeling priest. Pretty sure it was like that in the early days of Inde` before enchanting was reworked. I remember some Dev comments about how high 90's enchant would become more like rare artifacts. I didn't like the change, oh well.


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I enjoy the difficulty. I don't mind the randomness. I wish we could get more information on what does what exactly. But I really don't mind it all in all

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After this "fix" to flame aura, Most enchants are now at base VERY low level. I'm a vyn with almost 36 SD and a 66 channeling and I consitentaly get 18-26 power enchants.


 


Only 1 out of 20 enchants are over 60 (averaging around 72)    Skill SHOULD effect how well you combat and enchant cast are.   Channeling should be your cast  chance and SS or SD should be your power amount. (with 50 being your base line since it is a primary stat and raises much slower than other skills)


 


Why did they need to rework they whole system anyways when all they needed to do to fix flame aura was copy + paste Frost brand spell stats and cast rate, shatter chance into the file?


 


FB and FA are EXACTLY the same spell except one is fire the other ice.


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My issue with enchanting is it seems to be reserved for long time vets and hardcore power gamers. Usually these same people also have craft skills to make the items too. Thus, there is not much new or casual games can do besides buy silver.  

 

Wurm's always had this weird cycle where elites sell silver coins for real life money to the new and casuale. Then, these buyers turn around and give the game coins back to the same people in exchange for goods. The highests skill crafters/enchanters can really capitalize on this cycle and sell many gold coins.

Stepping back and looking at the whole cycle, I think it would be better if we hurt the elites by make enchants easiers. It just seems like a better plan to please the masses then the few.

 

It doesn't matter whether its a random (skill influence) curve or some slow as molasses improvement cycle ( I'd bet folks would want enchanting to be worse than WS), the end result is some people want enchanting to be so hard that its not feasible for most players.

 

At 85 Ch, 44SD, 100 faith, ~100 alignment (sac a lot of cordage) I can easily get 70's casts. 80's are doable with some effort. 90's are too difficult by my standards. I just hope for luck with 90's.

 

p.s. I loved it when you could pump out 90's enchants with ~50's channeling priest. Pretty sure it was like that in the early days of Inde` before enchanting was reworked. I remember some Dev comments about how high 90's enchant would become more like rare artifacts. I didn't like the change, oh well.

 

But doesn't this comment actually justify the current randomness becuase it means also low skill priest can get the occational high power cast?

 

I agree partly that it is frustrating to have low/mid skills in Wurm, it applies to many skills, not just enchanting, take fighting on PvP servers for example. New players can never really catch up completly, the older ones, if persistent will always have better skills. 

 

But what is the alternative? Make everything easier? I don't think that will make the game better. Remove the incentive to skill up and people will get bored and leave. If you can make all the best things after half a year of playing, what is the fun in continuing to skill up?

 

If you can't cope with the grind on freedom/chaos just go to Epic, it's much easier on beginners, at least crafting wise and you can have 45-50 channeling priest (much higher on the curve) in a few months. After that, to really reach the top you still have to put in an effort, because the curve makes you become pretty good very fast, but when you get past 60 skill or so you see very little difference in the output ql as you level up more but if you really want to be the best there is some reward still there if you continue grinding.

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My issue with enchanting is it seems to be reserved for long time vets and hardcore power gamers. Usually these same people also have craft skills to make the items too. Thus, there is not much new or casual games can do besides buy silver.  

 

Wurm's always had this weird cycle where elites sell silver coins for real life money to the new and casuale. Then, these buyers turn around and give the game coins back to the same people in exchange for goods. The highests skill crafters/enchanters can really capitalize on this cycle and sell many gold coins.

Stepping back and looking at the whole cycle, I think it would be better if we hurt the elites by make enchants easiers. It just seems like a better plan to please the masses then the few.

 

It doesn't matter whether its a random (skill influence) curve or some slow as molasses improvement cycle ( I'd bet folks would want enchanting to be worse than WS), the end result is some people want enchanting to be so hard that its not feasible for most players.

 

At 85 Ch, 44SD, 100 faith, ~100 alignment (sac a lot of cordage) I can easily get 70's casts. 80's are doable with some effort. 90's are too difficult by my standards. I just hope for luck with 90's.

 

p.s. I loved it when you could pump out 90's enchants with ~50's channeling priest. Pretty sure it was like that in the early days of Inde` before enchanting was reworked. I remember some Dev comments about how high 90's enchant would become more like rare artifacts. I didn't like the change, oh well.

 

It's the hardcore gamer that is always going to have the advantage in every skill, it is the reward for the time and effort put into it.  I've been playing since 2008 and only in the last 2 years did I start being any good at enchanting and smithing so I could sell enchanted tools and weapons.  Still have a long way to go before I'm one of the best.  And that is what keeps me going.  Casual players should never expect to be able to do the same things.

 

You have to remember that this game allows you to pay for prem time with ingame silver, and so earning that silver must be hard, or everyone would do it and then who would pay RL money to keep the game going?

 

And this is not the first time enchanting has been nerfed just for that reason.  Enchants used to never wear out.  You can imagine how the market started to drop then, as everyone got their high enchant items, then never bought again.  It's an artificial market and adjustments like this will need to be made over time to retain value.  Rolf even recognizes when something is too difficult.  Weaponsmithing, as hard as it is, used to be harder, but Rolf saw the market was going to a too small group, and he made it slightly easier, so those who put in the effort could get there too.

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When everyone made safely high casts, it doesn't mean, that everyone would start making money. It would simply mean, that the level, where casts are considered useless, gets higher. Eventually it would lead to the same rare/supreme mechanic as crafting has. That just to make those "special" casts possible. You can't escape the randomness.


Edited by rixk

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But doesn't this comment actually justify the current randomness becuase it means also low skill priest can get the occational high power cast?

 

To some extent it does. You can never get lucky and make a 90ql sword. I've played it all long enough that I've seen easy and what we have now. Well, I preferred the easier way. And I got 90's BS, Carp, farm, ropemake; 80's chan, mine, WC and hundreds of hours of in game time.  Its not like I'm asking for easier because my time or skill prevent me from making good items.

 

Vroomfondel    Between Joe and Qex I've been play for 6 years. I enjoyed it more when enchants were easier. From a selfish perspective if things were easier I might not be here now. It would likely be the same as FreeRealm where after ~6months I had seen it all and done it all. Its not possible to please everyone. I just think it would be more fun if the game focused more on casual then hardcore long time skill grinders. If the elites get bored fast, so be it.

 

Qex [10:32:43] You entered through the portal to Wurm on day of Sleep, week 2 of the starfall of Diamonds, 982. That's 2297 days, 12 hours and 44 minutes ago.

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So, Joedobo, you want Wurm to be just a game among all the others. Something you play for 6 months and then throw it away?


 


No way.. no thanks. I absolutely love the hardcoreness of Wurm, Please never take it away. 


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Enough about the market. The Market is a Freedom thing, Epic has very little if any market, and I'm pretty sure that Chaos is the same. PvP servers tend to give things away for free within the alliances. Changes can't be made to accommodate the virtual wallets of the players. They need to be made to improve gameplay.


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To some extent it does. You can never get lucky and make a 90ql sword.

 

But you can get lucky and make a rare, supreme, or even, if youre very lucky, fantastic sword that sells for a lot of dough...

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The alignment was crap yes, however with those skills regardless of alignment 70+ should be easy

 

Jokes on this thread just keep getting better :D

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For Epic, Channeling follows the Curve, right? What about Soul Depth?

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