To allow for easier spread and ensure players of all time zones can attend one, the Melody rift will be delayed by 12 hours
Sign in to follow this  
merce

What Everyone Wanted Of Wurm But Never Got

Recommended Posts

Firefox is freaking out about the sites trustworthiness......

 

 

Mine says it's ok..........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just love how they're making a point out of being so much better than the other games they're comparing themselves to when they're not even out on the market yet. I don't think Rolf'll have to worry about their advertising until they can prove that they're better. They might pull all their promises off, but most likely not.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just love how they're making a point out of being so much better than the other games they're comparing themselves to when they're not even out on the market yet. I don't think Rolf'll have to worry about their advertising until they can prove that they're better. They might pull all their promises off, but most likely not.

 

They compared their skills system with Ultima Online, and their combat system to Mount&Blade, and the claim they did it better, thats how you know they have no idea what they are talking about.    Comparing their still non-existant game, to games that took years to BALANCE.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah must admit, asking for 200,000 euro without even a playable tech demo strikes me as flat out nuts. It's more than I'd ask to further develop TSG and it's a feature-complete game with a playerbase (tiny, but present)


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ehm lol why the hell would someone need permission to mention which games inspired their new creation? That's just absurd...

EDIT: Actually it's even free publicity... so yeah, absurd!

Did you just read the one part of wurm... Keep going...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that in wurm you can make houses how you wish, not just plan house and gather materials [Drag them in building menu] Woala, Instant house done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  View hidden Post

I like that in wurm you can make houses how you wish, not just plan house and gather materials [Drag them in building menu] Woala, Instant house done!

 

You should know that the video you saw that in was a fast paced demo. The time it takes to make a house is not instant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They compared their skills system with Ultima Online, and their combat system to Mount&Blade, and the claim they did it better, thats how you know they have no idea what they are talking about.    Comparing their still non-existant game, to games that took years to BALANCE.

 

Their game is not non-existant. I have played it and the combat system is actually similar to M&B. Not sure why you talk so low of this game you haven't even played.

Edited by trashmanguy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The combat system is interesting except when they say it take place on instanced world so no third party can interfere or useless obstacles.. no more 'art of minehopping or stuck on trees' I guess but it does also means you can't terraform to put enemies to disadvantage.. :P I think wurm were thinking of gesture combat so that at least would similar to what this game looks good at.

 

Housing... meh... you can't build your own house model there, they already pre-defined.

 

While minigames sounds fun to craft things at first, it can quickly get tedious. Minigames only good to break the strain of say.. battles.. (eg: skyrim, fallout, ME). Make it too much like mass effect scanning planets for resources, then you make players protest. Imagine that you imp 1000 times a day in wurm and have to do 1000 minigame for it! Even if wurm accomodate 10 different minigames it won't prevent you from puking blood.

 

The looks of the world, not sure I like it, it looks like old-time wurm. Wurm today looks more beautiful somehow.

 

I would suggest devs of wurm take a look of it and monitor its progress though, to see what works and what don't works.

 

 

The houses in the video are premade, but later construction you will be able to build inividual walls and doors.

 

Taken from the website interactive FAQ:

"

Question: Could you please explain to me in a bit more detail how I would go about constructing a building square by square after I've flattened the ground?

Answer: There are few construction ways:

1. build a whole building (like we did with windmill on our video) - and cells logic affect only how many cells you should flatten for that building.

2. build a fence or castle wall square by square - you will have to flatten enough cells for each block.

3. plan your house, setting every wall, window,and door sections and then complete construction

Not sure that i have answered your question, but that should be enough for now. "

 

 

The mini-games are completely optional! You have the choice to just watch your guy swing his axe at the tree or you can play the little java game.

 

Alot of what yall are discussing about the game is answere here btw.

Edited by trashmanguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, I'm not even sure if I will continue to have testing access!  I have a feeling that current testers who applied to TEST the game and make it better, will have access withdrawn without buying the 150 Euro Alpha access pack, which is incredibly overpriced and quite ridiculous.

 

I think they may have pissed on their own chips, if not enough people do not buy the early alpha and beta testing packs - they will have very few people to actually test the game and therefore we could expect incredibly buggy game breaking releases and a complete fail release due to too many bugs putting people off.  At which point if they decide to open the floodgates and let more people test the game for free, without buying the expensive packs, people who did buy the packs will be pissed.

 

 

It'll feel like home then, just like Wurm

 

Bobik has told me and other testers that we are garunteed a spot in all other alphas.

 

What I am trying to say with all these posts is that most of the shortcommings you see in the game are from wrong ideas about how the game works. Please feel free to ask me anything and don't take too much from the videos. I would recomend looking at the site for more info.

Edited by trashmanguy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds like the ultimate online game if you ask me, from their determination and all the quick responses on different forums from their officials I doubt it won't succeed, the 250k euro campaign isn't going to happen most likely, but one way or another they will launch the game and then they will have one hell of a playerbase if they keep their current idea


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sounds like the ultimate online game if you ask me, from their determination and all the quick responses on different forums from their officials I doubt it won't succeed, the 250k euro campaign isn't going to happen most likely, but one way or another they will launch the game and then they will have one hell of a playerbase if they keep their current idea

If it turns out to be a truly awesome game, then hell yeah I'll drop Wurm and play LiF exclusively.

 

Some people are prone to getting hyped up over these kind of things but there's something you need to realise;

Right now its basically nothing but buzzwords that every single marketing strategy ever has used a thousand times before.

Just because a feature sounds cool now doesn't mean it's going to make it into the game without being dropped or changed in some way.

Even if they implement everything as they promised and exactly as they planned, it could still be a broken game that's just not fun to play.

 

I'm not out to see this game get burnt to the ground, I do hope that it turns into something great because we all know Wurm can't last forever and it's basically the only reason I tolerate having the privacy and safety black-hole that is java still installed on my pc.

 

And just to be clear Merce, this isn't an attack on you I'm just using this space to vent because life is happening to me right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll give it a shot too later on, but I NEVER buy myself into an alpha or beta. The rewards/prices are too low/high, although I understand the need for crowdfunding.


Edited by Bittereinder
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bobik has told me and other testers that we are garunteed a spot in all other alphas.

 

What I am trying to say with all these posts is that most of the shortcommings you see in the game are from wrong ideas about how the game works. Please feel free to ask me anything and don't take too much from the videos. I would recomend looking at the site for more info.

 

Bobik may have told you, but I'm damn sure he hasn't told everyone.  I asked on the forums about this specifically and I got this reply from Falke:

 

"Sure others will be able to join Alpha - who that'll be is a decision we make due forum activity, behavior etc".

 

Now to me, that sounds like current testers who have already received access through an application before the funding campaign started, will be competing for spaces, based on post count and activity and will therefore not be guaranteed access like you said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their game is not non-existant. I have played it and the combat system is actually similar to M&B. Not sure why you talk so low of this game you haven't even played.

 

The combat system has promise, but at the current moment it doesn't hold a candle to M&B... not yet anyway.

 

Don't misunderstand man, I have high hopes for this game and I'm all for hyping it up.  I think people should throw money at the game, it's definitely worth it, but it's no where near completion yet and without an adequate amount of testers, which I can see them lacking due to high alpha access prices, the game will fail at launch.

Edited by Bladedancer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha no, you keep playing wurm with your invulnerable fences and immortal cows.

According to their crowdfunding page.. property in WiF is under "Divine Protection".. not much more invulnerable than that lol.

 

For the rest of the game, will be interesting to watch it unfold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's very simple to make a "better" sandbox game than Wurm Online...


 


1) Don't bother with open world pvp unless you like small server populations


2) Have a safe new player experience with lots of direction given


3) Instance combat areas so players don't fight over spawns


4) Instance the world so players don't bicker/fight over land to build things


5) Dramatically speed up the rate players can build things


6) Cut out survivalist gameplay and replace it with controlled content, like Quests


7) Remove corpse runs and throw out death skill loss


8) Add teleporters to the public cities and allow players to build teleporters


9) Add teleporters to shipping routes and allow players to build teleporters for ships


10) Add an enhanced UI so players can do things without needing to read a wiki


11) Make it easy (and free) for players to travel between servers


12) Add an in-game map that shows virtually everything


13) Add an in-game radar to show nearby creatures and players


14) Add end-game areas which have more grind for the extreme gamers


15) Etc...


 


About 14... FAct is, no matter how good games are, some players play too much. There's no game with enough content for those kinds of players. The only reliable way to keep them in your habour is to make them grind. It's also easy for developers to create. With grind all you have to do is increase the length of time to do things.


 


This isn't rocket science. I played Everquest before WoW came out and when WoW came out I was not a fan of some of the gameplay features. WoW was just a more mainstream version of EQ, at the time. This is something you see as you become an older gamer. What I learned was that I'm part of a small minority of players who prefer hardcore gameplay, as opposed to mainstream gameplay. Mainstream gameplay eases up on the requirements from its players and ensures that everybody has a chance of experiencing the full game. Basically, mainstream games strive to attain a common denominator amongst the largest number of players and goes with it. if you're someone who doesn't have that common denominator then you'll search for a non-mainstream game to get your fix.


 


Mainstream games are successful because they're accessible to the largest number of players. That's all you really need to remember. They're usually linear and simple enough to play even if you've never played them.


 


And btw... what do I look for in a game, if I'm not mainstream? You might think I look for grind, since there's a lot of grind outside the mainstream, but you'd be wrong. All told, I hate grind. I've written about it in different forums. Grind is not interesting; it's just repetition meant to exploit you. I look for immersion. This means I don't look for in-game maps and in-game radars. I look for a minimalist UI. I also look for RISK versus reward. If I make a mistake, I expect to experience the fallout. I don't want to be protected. Let me hurt. Hurting even makes it feel more immersive to me, since I have to be aware to avoid it. Failing makes me appreciate success. All in all, I want a game without rails and I want it to have a low fault tolerance. So if you make lots of mistakes, you'll get hurt bigtime.


Edited by Lightonfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


 




It's very simple to make a "better" sandbox game than Wurm Online...


 


1) Don't bother with open world pvp unless you like small server populations


2) Have a safe new player experience with lots of direction given


3) Instance combat areas so players don't fight over spawns


4) Instance the world so players don't bicker/fight over land to build things


5) Dramatically speed up the rate players can build things


6) Cut out survivalist gameplay and replace it with controlled content, like Quests


7) Remove corpse runs and throw out death skill loss


8) Add teleporters to the public cities and allow players to build teleporters


9) Add teleporters to shipping routes and allow players to build teleporters for ships


10) Add an enhanced UI so players can do things without needing to read a wiki


11) Make it easy (and free) for players to travel between servers


12) Add an in-game map that shows virtually everything


13) Add an in-game radar to show nearby creatures and players


14) Add end-game areas which have more grind for the extreme gamers


15) Etc...


 


About 14... FAct is, no matter how good games are, some players play too much. There's no game with enough content for those kinds of players. The only reliable way to keep them in your habour is to make them grind. Fact is, gaming is an addiction and grinding is something addicted players will do. It's also easy for developers to create. With grind all you have to do is increase the length of time to do things. Content is not needed.


 


This isn't rocket science. I played Everquest before WoW came out and when WoW came out I was not a fan of some of the gameplay features. WoW was just a more mainstream version of EQ, at the time. This is something you see as you become an older gamer. What I learned was that I'm part of a small minority of players who prefer hardcore gameplay, as opposed to mainstream gameplay. Mainstream gameplay eases up on the requirements from its players and ensures that everybody has a chance of experiencing the full game. Basically, mainstream games strive to attain a common denominator amongst the largest number of players and goes with it. if you're someone who doesn't have that common denominator then you'll search for a non-mainstream game to get your fix.


 


Mainstream games are successful because they're accessible to the largest number of players. That's all you really need to remember. They're usually linear and simple enough to play even if you've never played them.


 


And btw... what do I look for in a game, if I'm not mainstream? You might think I look for grind, since there's a lot of grind outside the mainstream, but you'd be wrong. All told, I hate grind. I've written about it in different forums. Grind is not interesting; it's just repetition meant to exploit you. I look for immersion. This means I don't look for in-game maps and in-game radars. I look for a minimalist UI. I also look for RISK versus reward. If I make a mistake, I expect to experience the fallout. I don't want to be protected. Let me hurt. Hurting even makes it feel more immersive to me, since I have to be aware to avoid it. Failing makes me appreciate success. All in all, I want a game without rails and I want it to have a low fault tolerance. So if you make lots of mistakes, you'll get hurt bigtime.





[...] Nevermind, I'll leave it at, what your list describes is not a sandbox game, but an theme-park game in a sandbox wrapper.  Like going to Disneyland, you can wander around the park for the most part, and can do a lot of things you want to, but there are limits imposed for various reasons (safety, legal requirements, milking you for as much cash as they can, etc...) It is a perception of freedom and ability to make an impact that is removed every night as part of the grounds clean-up, leaving it the same for others who follow after you as it was when you got there.


 


As you said, unfortunately mainstream gamers tend to drift towards this type of game, and not towards games like Wurm traditionally was.


 


But there comes a point as a creator that you have ask, do I let it die or do I make changes to bring in new players?


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[...] Nevermind, I'll leave it at, what your list describes is not a sandbox game, but an theme-park game in a sandbox wrapper. Like going to Disneyland, you can wander around the park for the most part, and can do a lot of things you want to, but there are limits imposed for various reasons (safety, legal requirements, milking you for as much cash as they can, etc...) It is a perception of freedom and ability to make an impact that is removed every night as part of the grounds clean-up, leaving it the same for others who follow after you as it was when you got there.

As you said, unfortunately mainstream gamers tend to drift towards this type of game, and not towards games like Wurm traditionally was.

But there comes a point as a creator that you have ask, do I let it die or do I make changes to bring in new players?

It's kind of like how we romanticize the wild west and how a young driven man could create a new rich life there, but in truth it was a violent and lawless place and most of us would not want to live in it. People want a controlled semi-free environment that protects them from the more dangerous or frustrating elements of freedom.

 

But not everyone is that way. Some people, like maybe myself, want that less controlled freedom. I'm not saying I want that in RL, but I apparently want it in games, since I like games that're more like that.

Edited by Lightonfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Artificially grouping crafting skills into linear tracks when those skills lack any real dependence is a mistake.    Building cabinetry does not require knowing anything about planting or chopping down trees.   Weapon smithing does not require knowing anything about prospecting.  Wurm has had that right for the better part of a decade but these LiF guys couldn't resist arbitrarily forcing "anything related to wood" into one track and "anything related to metal" into another.   Hence the painfully contrived sounding names of some of the cells in their periodic table of of crafting skills.   It is good to see more activity in this game space; not so good to see poor decisions made in the face of good examples.


Edited by Gaffer
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm...


The videos look cheeky at best. Game play same. I dont like hitting a piece of earth 2 or 3 times and it goes poof already with smoothed sides and gone almost in an instant. In noway realistic. Combat not appealing.


We play Wurm for more than just combat. If you wanted this you could play a TON of other games for that which are designed for combat. But you cant beat the playability of Wurm for a sandbox game.


Cutting trees digging teraforming everything to do with this type of building aspect of the game beats the other I think hands down from the videos and the comments left by players for that game.


 


Wurm has its ups and downs but I see that game will be going by the wayside like all the others while Wurm withstands the sands of time. Faithful players as well as a community base of players will always keep Wurrm moving forward and ALIVE.


 


Keep up the good work Rolf were with ya for the long hall..Dont sweat this game Rolf its not going to stand up to the test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive been keeping an eye on this game since I notice it 2 years ago.  They are finally making head way but still a long way to go.  I will give this a try and depending on its cost Wurm might be replace.  Pvp system looks great lets just hope its not going to flop and disappoint like Xyson did for me.  


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Artificially grouping crafting skills into linear tracks when those skills lack any real dependence is a mistake.    Building cabinetry does not require knowing anything about planting or chopping down trees.   Weapon smithing does not require knowing anything about prospecting.  Wurm has had that right for the better part of a decade but these LiF guys couldn't resist arbitrarily forcing "anything related to wood" into one track and "anything related to metal" into another.   Hence the painfully contrived sounding names of some of the cells in their periodic table of of crafting skills.   It is good to see more activity in this game space; not so good to see poor decisions made in the face of good examples.

Well it looks to me - if that's the case - they're just trying to cut away the complications. For example, in Wurm we have to prospect for iron and find a vein and only then can we mine it. The construction of our settlement or house is usually near to the mine, so we don't have to run far. This is an interdependency between settlement position and mine postiion and between mining veins and geography. If one were to eleminate the interdependency then a player could build a mine ANYWHERE without regard to its position and they could move the production ANYWHERE without regard to time or cost. This necessarily simplifies the whole process. Perhaps that's their aim.

Interdepencies can create issues and frustration for some because they introduce things perhaps unwanted. For example, if a resource is rare, we may have to travel far to get it or we might pay someone to get it. Clay is somewhat rare where I am, for example. I have to travel a fair distance to get it. This means understanding the geography (hills/water/etc) and trying to minimize travel times (horse/ship/etc) and avoiding combat. Some games simpify this process to reduce frustrations. They eliminate the geography concerns (flying mounts or teleportation) and speed up the rate of travel and/or either make clay common or make it common yet limit access to it on a units/day basis.

I am a believer in interdependencies, but it's a hard sell, if the game is mainstream. I think most mainstream players approach these things with the perspective it's too complicated. They'll say "Keep It Simple Stupid." Or they'll say something like "I work two jobs and have a family, I don't have time to drag myself halfway across the map to get some clay!" Or maybe they'll say "Games aren't reality. Interdependencies should only be present when they're fun." Usually their arguments are solid and hard to counter, since interdependencies do indeed make things more complicated and sometimes frustrating. However, that's what I like about them. If that makes me unpopular, so be it.

Not to mention some players want a more creative sort of game, as opposed to a survival or cerebral sort of game. When building their dream settlement, they don't want to have to worry about combat or worry about mine position or worry about whether they'll have easy access to certain trees or all of the nitty gritty details that come into making a good settlement. They just want to be able to build their dream, like making a painting. What they want is the building process, but not all the interdependencies that restrict where and when and what you can build. They're like a painter, as opposed to an engineer. Fighting the game to get paint on the canvas is not their preference. Their battle is internal and abstract. When they win, the paint flourishes and castles in the clouds come to life.

Edited by Lightonfoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish wurm had better combat


 


I wish people's viewdistance to other players was actually dependant on the relevant setting - I still can't figure out why most pvpers can target me long before I can even select them...


 


I do not wish wurm had better graphics - I wish it was optimised better


 


I wish wurm had a proper economy and escrow system


 


I wish a lot of things.. which in my opinion may just equal wishing for a different game altogether


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this