Declining Player Curve

[Rothschild 10]

when it comes to publicity isn't any attention good attention? i mean even jerry springer said, when his tv show was rated the worst on television, "but you don't know who the second worst is"

[Santiago 3]

So, here I am, as a newish player to wurm reading some of the posts in this thread and some others and I sometimes have to chuckle. I’ve been playing the game for a couple months at most. I CAN say for a certainty that I have in no way experienced any kind of hatred or intolerance as a new player by the older generation players of wurm; Quite the opposite in fact. Mostly on the freedom servers to be sure but still if anything, the most grief I have seen has been done by new(ish) players when I have seen any at all (most on epic servers I might add).

Some of the things I see posted range from the ridiculous to outright nonsense. Don’t get me wrong, there are a few ideas mentioned that could be worked on and have merit but most are embedded in posts that are better left out.

I can’t speak to a cause for or even if there is a declining player-base but I can say that from what I’ve seen I’m sure there are several reasons. Most of which seem to be, at the very least, in the minds of those doing the planning, coding and support of the game. As someone who has been in tech support, online support (including in the game biz) and programming and development (also including the game biz) for 20 years I can say that there is no perfect formula and that the people (yes they are just people) here are seem to be doing what they can in the time frame they can do it. It seems most of the people working on wurm do so for the most part on their own time. Meaning that everyone puts time into dealing with the game and its quirks and issues during times they could be doing something else so stop complaining about how long it takes to implement something. Yes, if you are premium there are certain things you should expect (like bug fixes and or regular updates) but for anything else it’s gravy (meaning extra).

The point is that you are playing a game you like, for whatever reason. Everyone has their own point of view for what they think should be done and certainly should post suggestions in the proper venue. Constructive criticism is a good idea as long as that’s what it is… so are those suggestions. Try to keep that in mind.

Any lack of new players or retention of players is most likely due to appeal and functionality of the game itself. Those older players that have left due to frustration from expectations they may have had of the game staying static or not enough change from the sound of it. Personally I tried it for the sandbox nature of it and continue to play for that reason and the survival aspect. There are things I think could have been done differently to make the game mechanics more appealing but that is a moot desire. The mechanics are what they are and I either deal with it stop playing… Currently I choose to deal with it. I will put in suggestions (in the proper location) when I feel I have something unique to contribute but I don’t at all expect anything other than a glance and hope that maybe it will get considered. That is the expectation that all of us, as players of the game, should have IMO. That and nothing else.

It doesn’t matter if you were the first player of the game; you are a consumer using a product made and controlled by someone else. The sooner we realize that the more enjoyment we will get from the game. Stop worrying so much about things we can’t control. Play the game, that’s what we are here for after all.

I mostly keep to myself as I like the survival aspect of the game but I’m also friendly and will chat a bit or help someone if I can. If you see me say hey if you feel so inclined. Name is either Santiago or I have a couple alts with “Ryzby†in the name. Do you want to play a game?

 

 

 

[Suntzu 644]

when it comes to publicity isn't any attention good attention? i mean even jerry springer said, when his tv show was rated the worst on television, "but you don't know who the second worst is"

 

Well said.

[Scribble 57]

Advertisement is going to do nothing. Wurm Online is not graphically pleasing enough to pull in people via trailers or adds. 

 

The problems Wurm Online has are:

 

1. Newbie unfriendly.

Over the course when I played the game, I've seen skills get nerfed to the point where a new player has to invest so much time grinding the skill to make it useable that new players just don't bother at all. It's not worth the time investment to them, and as such they don't progress and get bored. Players want to be rewarded for their time. Nothing is worse than spending hours playing a game and feeling like you've achieved nothing.

 

2. Low playerbase

People want to feel that the world they play in is populated. I took part in many a 'Facepunch Invasion', and it was very obvious that the more people were in your town, the more people wanted to join. As people got bored and started leaving, interest (and eventually the town) died as well.

 

3. Toxic community.

The Wurm Online community has been small, and this resulted into the community becoming an exophobic 'Old Boy's Club' filled with extremely entitled people who throw up massive fits over the tiniest things. The issue with the youtube letsplay guy who got a namechange is a good example. Here you have arguably one of the best things to happen to Wurm Online in the past year, and the toxic community goes absolutely flipping nuts because the guy got something as meaningless as a namechange to allow him to better advertise the game. It's honestly pathetic for an outsider watching in on this drama. The sheer entitlement made me cringe and instantly destroyed any interest I might have had in playing this game again.

 

Just two copper coins from someone who used to play the game in the past and quit.

[Alec 728]

3. Toxic community.

The Wurm Online community has been small, and this resulted into the community becoming an exophobic 'Old Boy's Club' filled with extremely entitled people who throw up massive fits over the tiniest things. The issue with the youtube letsplay guy who got a namechange is a good example. Here you have arguably one of the best things to happen to Wurm Online in the past year, and the toxic community goes absolutely flipping nuts because the guy got something as meaningless as a namechange to allow him to better advertise the game. It's honestly pathetic for an outsider watching in on this drama. The sheer entitlement made me cringe and instantly destroyed any interest I might have had in playing this game again.

 

That's a reaaally bad example of "toxic comunity", but a reaaally good example of failed PR managment.

 

And if you want to tell that story, don't forget the part where the one who shall not be named, in an attack of animal rage, challenge almost all Epic cluster in horrible ways, or when Rolf himself,  in a dark moment of weakness, did something againts his belief, wich in the end he regret as he understood that that was a terrible mistake.

/drama

 

 

And as a noob myself I still didn't found any player that wasn't willing to aid me(proven that I wasn't a troll/alt/9yokid).

Heck even my first cavebase was set up by the kindness of a random stranger that I met the first day!

[Amadee 1,543]

Wurm Online is not graphically pleasing enough to pull in people via trailers or adds. 

 

 

 

Not going to comment on the rest, but had to respond to this.  Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.  And Wurm's graphics have vastly improved over just the year and a half I've been playing.  

 

What is unpleasing about the graphics?  That they're not cartoons like WoW and like most games out there?  Personally I find that refreshing.

 

I love Wurm's graphics.  The world is beautiful to me.  So beautiful that I'm often inspired to take screenshots.  I love the grass blowing in the breeze.  I love the trees.  I love the clouds moving across the moons and the eclipses.  I love the horses.  I love the views from a mountaintop. I love looking up when it's snowing and seeing that the snowflakes are all different.  I love all the small details when you look closely at something, like a pheasant or a cave wall. So many little things, I could go on and on.

 

Maybe to you and some others, Wurm's graphics aren't pleasing, but to others it's very pleasing.  And I seriously doubt it has anything at all to do with whether or not Wurm can draw new players.  (with the exception of the people who think online games have to be cartoons)

[Void 75]

 

3. Toxic community.

The Wurm Online community has been small, and this resulted into the community becoming an exophobic 'Old Boy's Club' filled with extremely entitled people who throw up massive fits over the tiniest things. The issue with the youtube letsplay guy who got a namechange is a good example. Here you have arguably one of the best things to happen to Wurm Online in the past year, and the toxic community goes absolutely flipping nuts because the guy got something as meaningless as a namechange to allow him to better advertise the game. It's honestly pathetic for an outsider watching in on this drama. The sheer entitlement made me cringe and instantly destroyed any interest I might have had in playing this game again.

 

Just two copper coins from someone who used to play the game in the past and quit.

 

No one who ask kindly for help or aid ingame will usually (!) get anything else than help or aid, even from someone like me.

 

Someone with a certain attitude will ofc get what that kind of person usually gets.

 

An attitude of people "who quit" and comes back for a whiny post how unfair and hard the game, the community and the world is for an example.

 

But for

1) so is EvE online, some games are played because they aquire more attention than the "average pc player of today" does. Not everyone want to play a brain-afk game, there enough of them... more than enough.

 

2) yea sure, thats why (mostly relativ new people) complains in the chat all the time that there is "no empty spot without people to settle".

 

But maybe all that was different when you was still playing the game...

 

PS: the graphic-thing shows where you come from btw, wurm has improved its graphic alot in the last 2-3 years and looks very good for an independent game.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Void

[BabylonHoruv 7]

I am a big fan of wurm's Graphics.  It's pretty and the lack of true 3d means that it is less of a load on my computer than it would be with it.  I have also found the community on the server i am on to be quite helpful and friendly.   Sure, there are some jerks, but you expect that in any game.

 

I think that the way people act on the forums is much more hostile than how they act in the game, either that or I was lucky in my choice of server.  

 

The whole Bashur debacle I have only seen unfold on the forum, since I play on Release and not on an Epic server at all.  People on the forums have certainly reacted to it in ways that seem pretty absurd to me, and Bashur's related story of his young fan being lured away, killed, and abused makes it sound unpleasant, but I'm only getting one side of the story there.  I can't judge the community on that server from that.  My daughter started playing on that server and didn't have any of those experiences, on the other hand she didn't play all that long before deciding that she preferred minecraft.

[Eisenkreuz 23]

Not sure where the nonsense about new players is coming from. I started less than two months ago on Desertion and, with the exception of a single idiot who harassed me for a few hours, I had zero problems from the estabilished players. And that single player is well to known to be Desertion's local village idiot. It's not a general problem.

 

But maybe I should compare myself with the recent horde of youtube kids. Let's see some differences:

- I didn't flood every single channel with idiotic questions wich can be answered by the wiki in 10 seconds flat;

- I didn't ask every 5 minutes if player X is online and where he's located;

- I didn't go around stealing stuff, leaving ###### everywhere, building half-assed stuff only to abandon it in two hours and start littering another place;

- English isn't my first language and I realize I probably make a lot of mistakes, but I try my best to make myself understandable.

 

If old players are going out of their way to target some specific players, then probably they deserved it with their absolute lack of proper behavior.

[Sir Arowhun 473]

All this nonsense about Serenity is false. We aim to be accepting to new players, and we do our best to push out outlaws. You have to understand that stories you hear may not be entirely honest. We don't just kick people out and harass them because we feel like it. If someone causes problems, they will naturally be harassed. Its just the nature of the game.

 

Advertisement is going to do nothing. Wurm Online is not graphically pleasing enough to pull in people via trailers or adds. 

 

The problems Wurm Online has are:

 

1. Newbie unfriendly.

Over the course when I played the game, I've seen skills get nerfed to the point where a new player has to invest so much time grinding the skill to make it useable that new players just don't bother at all. It's not worth the time investment to them, and as such they don't progress and get bored. Players want to be rewarded for their time. Nothing is worse than spending hours playing a game and feeling like you've achieved nothing.

 

2. Low playerbase

People want to feel that the world they play in is populated. I took part in many a 'Facepunch Invasion', and it was very obvious that the more people were in your town, the more people wanted to join. As people got bored and started leaving, interest (and eventually the town) died as well.

 

3. Toxic community.

The Wurm Online community has been small, and this resulted into the community becoming an exophobic 'Old Boy's Club' filled with extremely entitled people who throw up massive fits over the tiniest things. The issue with the youtube letsplay guy who got a namechange is a good example. Here you have arguably one of the best things to happen to Wurm Online in the past year, and the toxic community goes absolutely flipping nuts because the guy got something as meaningless as a namechange to allow him to better advertise the game. It's honestly pathetic for an outsider watching in on this drama. The sheer entitlement made me cringe and instantly destroyed any interest I might have had in playing this game again.

 

Just two copper coins from someone who used to play the game in the past and quit.

 

1) I agree that this game is very hard to get into, but this is the reason why it is so attractive to some. I'm not sure what you meant about the skill nerf thing.

 

2) Wurm has a small playerbase, but this isn't really a problem for gameplay. There are still plenty of people active to make friends and join a group.

 

3) That is false. From the instant I started playing this game, I was surprised at how nice everyone was to me. Of course, on PvP servers outlaws and people from enemy kingdoms might not be nice all the time, but for the most part factions are welcoming to new people that are interested in being a productive part of their society.

[Landrik 683]

3. Toxic community.

The Wurm Online community has been small, and this resulted into the community becoming an exophobic 'Old Boy's Club' filled with extremely entitled people who throw up massive fits over the tiniest things. The issue with the youtube letsplay guy who got a namechange is a good example. Here you have arguably one of the best things to happen to Wurm Online in the past year, and the toxic community goes absolutely flipping nuts because the guy got something as meaningless as a namechange to allow him to better advertise the game. It's honestly pathetic for an outsider watching in on this drama. The sheer entitlement made me cringe and instantly destroyed any interest I might have had in playing this game again.

 

I think your understanding of entitlement is a little off...

[50Cent123 60]

This graph  is interesting too.

 

 

I dont think you know what that graph means. It gets reset at every server reset, so it's mostly an indication of how many resets there are.

[Suntzu 644]

Its shows unique ips that log on after a reset I would reckon....

[50Cent123 60]

Its shows unique ips that log on after a reset I would reckon....

 

Yes, so it doesn't indicate how many people log in, just how many people log in before the server gets restarted. It indicates how many restarts there are in any given period.

 

I don't know how that makes you think there are less unique ip's than before 1.0. It means there are more restarts lately, due to all the graphic updates and bugfixes since rolf hired more people to do more updates.

[Holar 1,484]

It's just a slow time of year get over it

[thenewcndo 528]

It's just a slow time of year get over it

This, everyone is back and school or work.

[Marlon 303]

Especially since I'm new (last 6 months), and during those 6 months, I have brought in 3 friends, who have brought in about 2, and around our deed, about 6 players have settled, all of whom are new.

So I am struggling to get this boohoo.

Another thread I am exiting out of sheer merry-go-roundity.

[Suntzu 644]

Yes, so it doesn't indicate how many people log in, just how many people log in before the server gets restarted. It indicates how many restarts there are in any given period.

 

I don't know how that makes you think there are less unique ip's than before 1.0. It means there are more restarts lately, due to all the graphic updates and bugfixes since rolf hired more people to do more updates.

 

I guess that giant bump when epic came out and the consitant decline of unique ips shown in yet another graph means nothing.

 

More than one graph shows the trend rolf mentioned, you also ignore the owner himself mentioned it and is worried about it, soooo how can you deny it? lol....

[Lightonfoot 58]

Look up everybody the sky is falling.

 

There's only one thing I know for sure and that's most or all mmorpgs mudlfate. It doesn't matter whether they have an in-game economy or not. They mudflate anyway; they generally get faster and more accomodating. The one thing most or all mmorpgs don't do is become more niche or become slower paced or less accessible. However, they're still restricted by their identity. For example, if a game starts out as mildly mainstream it's likely to stay that way, even if it tries to hit it bigtime. If it starts out in a niche it will try to be more mainstream yet ultimately it'll remain niche.

 

I'd like to see more games that're content living in their own skin. They're always trying to become more mainstream. It mostly has to do with the fact that every game slowly dies and developers want more money. I think the major reason games die is because their codebase becomes too old, so it falls behind. Along with this is the identity of the game which also restricts its potential. For example, If the game identifies itself with fast-action fps gameplay then it tends to stay that way, even though another form of gameplay might emerge that's more popular. The slow death and the identity of the game come together to reduce its population which in turn causes the developers to counter by developing for a larger audience. Lastly, even if a game is ok and maintaining its population, companies usually want to grow and make more money anyway, not remain as-is or earn less. All of this - the desire to grow and the aging and identify of the game - combine to create a situation where nobody is happy with the game. There's not a situation where the game dies gracefully, instead it's always battling its own nature until it dies. It's unlike how people die because it's all business and no love. A game is a soulless thing made to serve business.

 

The closest thing to a game with a soul are emulated classic games which exist because of love. They're emulated precisely because the creators refuse to love them and instead use them as slaves to serve their greed.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Lightonfoot

[Void 75]

 

More than one graph shows the trend rolf mentioned, you also ignore the owner himself mentioned it and is worried about it, soooo how can you deny it? lol....

 

 

That works, if you put the head deep enough into the sand.

[Wardruna 22]

You can't market a very niche, old game, that has an extraordinary learning curve and requires for an abysmal time commitment on top of extraordinarily high premium rates, and expect anything short of a paradigm shift in the way people enjoy games to get this anywhere near the population I imagine you all hope to get.

All things must end, so enjoy it while its still around. If I was Rolf, I'd sell this off, cut my losses and run. There is little short of making a new game that you can do to propel this relic into the industry spotlight.

Learn to live in a niche, because this ain't going mainstream. That's reality outside of wurm.

[Joanavon 553]

While Wurm is unlikely to enter mainstream status that doesn't mean that the game is unmarketable or cannot be promoted as well as tweaked to enable the marketing and advertising of it's strong suits and talking points. A renewed focus on what wurm does best and does alone in conjunction with perhaps the paring down and de emphasizing of the elements and mechanics where the game struggles to be relevant when finished with a promotion campaign could do wonders for the game and it's success. Niche does not mean doomed to decline or forever struggling. 

 

But there may soon come a time if a precipitous decline is real and occurs where due to the limitations of development resources and time where some significant choices or decisions may have to be made in order to be the most effective overall in reversing that trend. 

Edited October 25, 2013 by Joanavon

[JackyHyde 4]

my concern is this: i came new to the game, spent time loking around/gringing my basic skills - BUT - nobody is actually talking to me, and [i can manage this], only i thought this is a community game, where people are supposed to meet, talk, get together?! i made my post that i wish to join adventure, village, anything... but it's been weeks and nobody in particular is interested!

 

even joined DNPA [what a shithole for a new player, i was better off just on my own; their leader, Tacitus even stole my noob equipment, he tracked me for hours, then waited until i log off, because he scanned me and because of some good gear i found in abandoned buildings - he was a ###### ###### to attack me right there, he stole cart with everything - and he is the leader of DNPA - lol]

 

the only reasonable person i could make terms is Aurorane - a truly exceptional player, who really helped me when i was in trouble from that idiot player killer Tyler, and this person gave me shelter..

 

the rest, until now are just useless jerks... think what you want - i don't even consider your worth!

 

thank you!

 

yeah, and tacitus - i hope you ###### your mother in anus in your childhood, you sorry ###### calling itself the leader of new player village, you idiot ######

 

if these concerns and my bd language does not appeal to you; and if you hold no reaonable attitude in your small brain, then why would i even consider to paying for this gme? wow, really, why? any advice, dear people? tell me this is not some ###### up another stuck up your ass mmmorpg where few idiots spoil game for everybody else;

 

or, is it me who is an arrogant stupid son of a ###### - you tell me - i will consent with your opinion!

 

newbs are friendly, as always, but the elder players, with few excteption are just dicks!!

Edited October 25, 2013 by JackyHyde

[Ruger 610]

my concern is this: i came new to the game, spent time loking around/gringing my basic skills - BUT - nobody is actually talking to me, and [i can manage this], only i thought this is a community game, where people are supposed to meet, talk, get together?! i made my post that i wish to join adventure, village, anything... but it's been weeks and nobody in particular is interested!

 

even joined DNPA [what a shithole for a new player, i was better off just on my own; their leader, Tacitus even stole my noob equipment, he tracked me for hours, then waited until i log off, because he scanned me and because of some good gear i found in abandoned buildings - he was a ###### ###### to attack me right there, he stole cart with everything - and he is the leader of DNPA - lol]

 

the only reasonable person i could make terms is Aurorane - a truly exceptional player, who really helped me when i was in trouble from that idiot player killer Tyler, and this person gave me shelter..

 

the rest, until now are just useless jerks... think what you want - i don't even consider your worth!

 

thank you!

 

yeah, and tacitus - i hope you ###### your mother in anus in your childhood, you sorry ###### calling itself the leader of new player village, you idiot ######

 

if these concerns and my bd language does not appeal to you; and if you hold no reaonable attitude in your small brain, then why would i even consider to paying for this gme? wow, really, why? any advice, dear people? tell me this is not some ###### up another stuck up your ass mmmorpg where few idiots spoil game for everybody else;

 

or, is it me who is an arrogant stupid son of a ###### - you tell me - i will consent with your opinion!

 

newbs are friendly, as always, but the elder players, with few excteption are just dicks!!

Whoa buddy. Have some pent up aggression there for sure. lol

[belthize 438]

 

or, is it me who is an arrogant stupid son of a ###### - you tell me - i will consent with your opinion!

 

 

 

I'm gonna go with this one.