Declining Player Curve

[Emane 158]

Well, I say we look at the premium being bought BEFORE the price increase, and choose the average, add 4-5 months to that, then add VAT in, and see what rolfs income  was with the old price.

 

THEN, look at the new price, look at the average of prems being bought now, add 4-5 months to that, then add VAT in.. see what his income is now.

 

Which is higher?

 

 

Problem is there is no publicly available information comparing cash purchases of premium time to in game purchases of premium time.That is the graph I would like to see which would give a true visual of what the price increase consequences/benefits have been. 

[Heboric 808]

A guess is there will be more advertising once the first five hours(1) stuff has been fixed.

 

Best regards

Zcul (afk)

 

1: http://wurmonline.com/tag/first-five-hours/

 

This.

 

The game has had a problem identified that was the high drop off of new players simply finding it all too daunting and immediately giving up. That is being addressed right now and it wouldn't appear to be most sensible to try for a bunch more new players before that is rolled out.

 

Wurm for me is simply the best game I have ever played despite it's warts and bunions and if it were to disappear I would be very hard pressed to come up with a replacement.

 

I think we all need a little faith, while recognizing that there are a few PR issues that have not been going well recently. People have pointed it all out and made there various suggestions. Now it's really a question of allowing theDevs to work it all out and find ways to respond to the player base. We can't expect that overnight though imo.

[AlexLong 128]

Plenty of people find the game, most of them leave and most of them leave because of reasons like you see in this video.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eBCTXA609A

As others mentioned, fixing the learning curve is the first step, also there is not enough travel for free players to stick around and the total lack of travel makes it hard for them to go collect resources and sell them etc etc to make the coins needed for prem time.
Just make the large cart availiable to free players already and you will see an increase in players plus people upgrading to prem time. you will see an increase in other players hireing free players and so on too.


I created an alt and prem'ed it the other day mainly to plant a second deed and suddenly I was reminded how painful it is when you start out. "You cant modify that terran because of your level"
"You cant help build the second floor because of your level"
"You cant build a fence there because of your level"
"You cant do anything because of your level"
Things that I now take for granted with Alex were frustrating as all hell when trying to level up my alt. Stupid things that don't even make sense. if I can dig a hole with a shovel why does the slope really matter? I'm talking 20 slope and so on, not 150.

Edited October 7, 2013 by AlexLong

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

Absolutely no to making Large Cart available for Free Players. If they want the perks associated with being Premium, then get Premium. I think that the game just needs to be better explained to people is all.

[joedobo 1,187]

advise:

Start offering different environments for different types of players. You can't please everyone by forcing all players to play the same way. Diversification is used frequently from investments to large corporation. Yes, Wurm isn't a large corporation but the principle of offering different types of experiences (or products in corp. case) to different types of customers still applies. 

-- No-aggro server. Aggro cap 0, domestic cap max and prevent lair spawn. Need to add furs to a peaceful creature.

-- Hunting server (aggro cap 90%, domestic cap 10%). Change deed creatures per a tile ratio so its normalized, if 15 works for 10k creatures than 75 would work for 2k. Try to skew the lair creation more towards difficult creatures. All mobs bash fences/house walls and strong creatures like trolls can do significant damage.

-- a no build restriction server. Yes, floating houses and 100+ story buildings!

-- a no priest restriction server. This might go well with the no build restriction. 

 

Wurm's already running on virtual machines. Would it be that hard to make a few servers to test out this idea?

[Radni 1,089]

advise:

Start offering different environments for different types of players. You can't please everyone by forcing all players to play the same way. Diversification is used frequently from investments to large corporation. Yes, Wurm isn't a large corporation but the principle of offering different types of experiences (or products in corp. case) to different types of customers still applies.

-- No-aggro server. Aggro cap 0, domestic cap max and prevent lair spawn. Need to add furs to a peaceful creature.

-- Hunting server (aggro cap 90%, domestic cap 10%). Change deed creatures per a tile ratio so its normalized, if 15 works for 10k creatures than 75 would work for 2k. Try to skew the lair creation more towards difficult creatures. All mobs bash fences/house walls and strong creatures like trolls can do significant damage.

-- a no build restriction server. Yes, floating houses and 100+ story buildings!

-- a no priest restriction server. This might go well with the no build restriction.

Wurm's already running on virtual machines. Would it be that hard to make a few servers to test out this idea?

You do realize the server box cost riiiiiight? How many 1,000$'s or whatever it all is?.. For some servers people won't play on for more than a week?..

How about we just advertise. If we could get 30-40 more people flowing through GV a day, then we'd have 5+ paying people join a day.

In a year like that, all the servers could gain 50-100 people

[joedobo 1,187]

@ Radni     ROI assessments. Yes, I know its not free. Rolf has stated in the past that it costs very little to keep the servers up and running. I say do both, advertise and diversity!

 

 

[Kristoff 56]

I have to agree with some that mass advertising might not help anything due to how unstable the servers are with just the players we have already. 

 

Personally I have been put off Wurm due to the instability of Java. I do not have a good computer nor can I justify buying a new computer because this one can't run a single specific game as I'm not big on PC gaming anymore.

 

Don't get me wrong. I love Wurm and I am always on the forums looking for news and updates, as well as participating in the suggestions forum whenever I see fit. As the game has grown more complex it's performance has dropped considerably for me and I just had to close the book, at least for the time being.

 

One of my concerns about attracting new customers is not the drop-off rate 10 hours in but the drop-off rate within the first second. 4/5 of the people i've tried to bring into wurm had issues when trying to launch the game, two of them managed to find the issue, which re-emerged at random after a while.

Now, of course the game engine can't change and No one expects it to, but in my experience across Runescape, Minecraft, and Wurm over the years, my opinion of it as a game engine is rock bottom.

 

My apologies if this all came off as very negative but my intent was to explain one of my more deep-seated grievances with Wurm. I'll try to edit in some supportive suggestions when I have more time.

[Dextrome 123]

Performance issues have nothing to do with java itself. Take a look at other very successful java games, like Runescape. Even in 2001 they were able to host 2000+ players per server and it could handle a few hundred players in one place.

 

Are you seriously comparing the performance of runescape to a 3D game with a dynamic map and dynamic objects/structures everywhere? Because that's just... ignorant.

[Dextrome 123]

This.

 

The game has had a problem identified that was the high drop off of new players simply finding it all too daunting and immediately giving up.

 

No offense, but players who find getting familiar with the very basics of the game too daunting, are not the kind of players who are gonna stick aound in the long run anyway... 

[Druidnature 1,118]

I agree, we do need more players...

But not something even close to steam like some people believe, do you have any clue how many people would join in the first 24 hours alone? The entire game would be offline for weeks.

Even if you increase the servers to somehow handle this capacity, how many of these players are what the general player base wants? I personally came here to leave behind whining players (kids and adults alike) I don't want this game to become that too.

[Dextrome 123]

One of my concerns about attracting new customers is not the drop-off rate 10 hours in but the drop-off rate within the first second. 4/5 of the people i've tried to bring into wurm had issues when trying to launch the game, two of them managed to find the issue, which re-emerged at random after a while.

Now, of course the game engine can't change and No one expects it to, but in my experience across Runescape, Minecraft, and Wurm over the years, my opinion of it as a game engine is rock bottom.

 

My apologies if this all came off as very negative but my intent was to explain one of my more deep-seated grievances with Wurm. I'll try to edit in some supportive suggestions when I have more time.

 

Problem is, these days everyone uses a computer. PC gaming was reserved to computer-nerds in the past, and those nerds knew how to operate their PCs. People these days just don't have a clue  (maybe 1% still has a clue, but definately not 2%  )

 

I never had any probs installing or running Wurm. And I've played on 3 different PCs and 2 different laptops.

[Dextrome 123]

That's not the game itself Judicator, it's the platform upon which it is built. 

Java.

 

That didn't really make any sense lol.... you know Java is just a programming language right? It's not a networking framework or platform.

[Hussars 511]

While a programming language, it is considered a development "platform" and is built on the Oracle network framework.  There are ongoing jokes around it, like the old unofficial Java motto:  "Code once, debug everywhere."

 

::Edit Insert::

Official links from Oracle describing it as such:

 

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/overview/6-142539.html

 

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/

Edited October 7, 2013 by Hussars

[Wulfgar 1,114]

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/09/oracle_java/

 

Comeback for Java!

[Ellenmarie 39]

Lastly and most importantly sombody needs to create a real quality strategy guide (dummy proof) on how to survive initially, hunt, make stuff, and build your own home in that order.

 

Lastly Lastly the established players need to be less critical and rude to new players who don't know jack squat when they ask dumb questions in chat. They are new players. OF COURSE THEY WILL ASK DUMB QUESTIONS....

Really good points. I just left a game I played for 3-4 years, after playing Runescape for 3-4 years. I see the same problem here that I saw in my last game. In both games, unlike Runescape, there are no external websites devoted to the game. Sites that are tied into the game database somehow. On Runescape there were several huge sites all about the game where we could get almost any answer. Even an item database. Quest guides with spoilers, too. Wurm is much better about offering help via Wurmpedia and the CA Help channel, but a website would be best.

Re established players... they hurt these indie games, imo. Some players have 1-4 RL years under their belts (playing the game) and cry foul when Devs change anything that brings in more players. Another reason why a website is needed. New players could get all the info they need at the website & skip the sarcastic, or rude, comments made in chat and in forums.

[Suntzu 644]

I agree, we do need more players...

But not something even close to steam like some people believe, do you have any clue how many people would join in the first 24 hours alone? The entire game would be offline for weeks.

Even if you increase the servers to somehow handle this capacity, how many of these players are what the general player base wants? I personally came here to leave behind whining players (kids and adults alike) I don't want this game to become that too.

 

How many of these players are what the general playerbase wants? GG man... You fit right in, sound like an old school wilder right thur.... This is why Rolf can't have nice things.

[Ellenmarie 39]

No offense, but players who find getting familiar with the very basics of the game too daunting, are not the kind of players who are gonna stick aound in the long run anyway...

I disagree. Given more information about how to survive, many would stick around. Eg. keep your inventory under 28kgs and you can outrun any mob

Many of us died carrying ore, or logs, our first days. Also, teach players that mobs must be targeted in order for guards to respond and to type "Help" near towers.

Just because some players "get it" faster than others doesn't mean the others wouldn't stick around. I came very close to quitting the game my first week, after dying 6 times one afternoon. An experienced player told me that I can outrun any mob & it changed the game for me.

I welcome the casual gamer & hope the Devs can tap into that market. As it is now, Wurm has more hardcore gamers (logging more than 2 hours a day) than casual gamers:(

[Gavin 971]

I have to ask, how much good did Gavin do for the game when he was given special treatment on his ban

 

Wait, what? Were you even around then? I was permanently banned for 'alt abuse' - logging into a enemy character in a PvP zone. It was and still is common place for people to use alts to scout around or whatever, and of all people to attempt to call me out on it you are certainly no better than anyone else when it comes to using alts to gain a PvP advantage.

 

It was a BS ban and everyone knew it. For those that were not around at the time Madt recieved a very similar ban too; it's just he is apparently not as hated by MR as me so it's never bought up

 

 

 

Without unnecesarrily dragging anyones name through the mud my ideas would be to simply try and get more revenue per player, not by forcing people to pay more but by giving them the oppurtunity - the moneysink items are a great example; loads of people have purchased Magic Chests, and on the PvP servers almost everyone buys ressurection stones and farwalker twigs.

 

Some ideas, all of them should have some sort of use limit so you need to keep buying them and not be too unbalancing:

- Lunchbox that reduces or removes meal decay

- Key ring that fits in BoK. This would allow you to combine loads of keys and simply use a 'keyring' to open a chest or whatever. Stops you sifting through keys to find the right one

- Make it so you can buy potions from traders; they are easy enough to get from sacrificing stuff but who knows maybe someone will pay for them

- Some trinket that gives a small amount of stamina

- Hourglass or something that allows you to store 5 hours of SB. Make it so you can only carry one per person, and they are not tradeable when full to prevent abuse. 

 

Lastly make it so the moneysink items are all 0.01kg!!! I currently have like 6 twigs or something on me, and I'd buy even more if they were not 0.50kg or more each - 6 twigs works out to be 3kg which can add up really fast when you think about everything you need to carry around. I feel the weight of some moneysink items turns people off them, especially if we add more.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Gavin

[Kagrenac 812]

I think the point of the weight is so people cant just carry around a ton of shaker orbs/twigs/stones. Having 20 twigs to instantly teleport 20 places is a pretty big advantage.

[BabylonHoruv 7]

Really good points. I just left a game I played for 3-4 years, after playing Runescape for 3-4 years. I see the same problem here that I saw in my last game. In both games, unlike Runescape, there are no external websites devoted to the game. Sites that are tied into the game database somehow. On Runescape there were several huge sites all about the game where we could get almost any answer. Even an item database. Quest guides with spoilers, too. Wurm is much better about offering help via Wurmpedia and the CA Help channel, but a website would be best.

Re established players... they hurt these indie games, imo. Some players have 1-4 RL years under their belts (playing the game) and cry foul when Devs change anything that brings in more players. Another reason why a website is needed. New players could get all the info they need at the website & skip the sarcastic, or rude, comments made in chat and in forums.

 

 

Wurmpedia is a website...

[Emane 158]

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Basic_Knowledge

 

I disagree. Given more information about how to survive, many would stick around. Eg. keep your inventory under 28kgs and you can outrun any mob

Many of us died carrying ore, or logs, our first days. Also, teach players that mobs must be targeted in order for guards to respond and to type "Help" near towers.

Just because some players "get it" faster than others doesn't mean the others wouldn't stick around. I came very close to quitting the game my first week, after dying 6 times one afternoon. An experienced player told me that I can outrun any mob & it changed the game for me.

I welcome the casual gamer & hope the Devs can tap into that market. As it is now, Wurm has more hardcore gamers (logging more than 2 hours a day) than casual gamers:(

 

 

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Basic_Knowledge

 

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Useful_links_for_beginners

 

 

 

Pretty much talks on everything you mentioned...or that a new player would need to know to get started. 

Edited October 8, 2013 by Emane

[Druidnature 1,118]

How many of these players are what the general playerbase wants? GG man... You fit right in, sound like an old school wilder right thur.... This is why Rolf can't have nice things.

Trust me when I say I do not fit right in with that crowd. I like having friends, yes. I don't like one that knows how to do something yet whines to everyone until someone does it for him.

And I won't get into this with you here on a forum, but please don't assume you know me from one post I make. Especially when I believe you don't get the "type" of player I mean, I'm more then willing to help anyone, new and old player alike (just ask any of my neighbors) but I refuse to assist someone that whines to get what they want.

Sorry for going a bit off topic, just trying to clear that up.

[Dextrome 123]

 

Plus if 30 or more people do things in the same location the game crashes or at least lags really badly. It's not really designed for mmo.

 

That's not the game itself Judicator, it's the platform upon which it is built.  Java.

 

That didn't really make any sense lol.... you know Java is just a programming language right? It's not a networking framework or platform.

 

While a programming language, it is considered a development "platform" and is built on the Oracle network framework.  There are ongoing jokes around it, like the old unofficial Java motto:  "Code once, debug everywhere."

 

Uhm you think Oracle is a network framework? (wtf?) The Java development platform does not have integrated game networking features. You always have to write that yourself (or use a framework somebody else wrote). 

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

 

well, obviously we need more players. But it's a very delicate topic - when Independence was opened to the ravishing hordes from the Golden Valley, it was only days until a huge number of old, settled Premium players vanished into thin air.
 

I was happy enough to be far away at this time, but even then I was close to giving up. Each day another newbie trying to make a new shanty town besides our deed, the constant bickering, cussing and fighting in local, it was no fun. This ended when the new servers was opened, Rolf be praised!

 

Any server has a certain number of players that it can maintain. So, if the player numbers are rising, we need new servers, or we'll trade some new F2P try-out players in for loyal long-time Prem payers leaving. Kind of a "load-balancing" would be helpful, when after the Tutorial new players might get a warning: "The server you chose is overpopulated already, you might have a suboptimal playing experience there! Really don't want to choose another?"

 

After all, I've made enough Alts spawning in the Howl. Would I be here today if I had started this way? The Howls is at least as much of a Shanty town area like Glitterdale was years ago, but even more restricted. On GV it was small patches of land conquered, quickly rotting, on Independence it's large deeds blocking the newbies, for long time.

 

They tell us about a "first 5 hours" program. Cool.

 

Any new player at The Howl would spend his first 5 hours with finding out it cannot do anything, because all land nearby is deeded. And leave for good.

They're coming in in numbers each day, but only a tiny fraction ever survives the first hours.

 

We (= KinCan) do anything to keep them if they reach us, nevertheless only 1 out of 10 survives the first month.

 

That's not it.

 

We need a filter. We need a way to find the ones that are worth helping, before they even come to the real servers.

 

And we need a playground for try-outs, where they can accommodate. Wurm is a very different game for most, and some might need to be fed by a silver spoon for a certain time until they "get the feeling" - after all, it's very different from what they knew before.

 

Throwing the game on Steam will not help anything - it wouldn't be other than Bashurs failed try.

 

What we need to do is making the "testing"/ "getting used to" more enjoyable, more easy. The tutorial, as much as I admire its set-up is too few. Sadly, it doesn't work as intended. Too much chore, too few fun (even if the texts are awesome!). And 5 hours will not do the trick.

 

An optional 20/ 30/ 40h newbie server, maybe? With themed areas like "crafting", "hunting", "PvP" and "survival/ mobs"? Where newbies would have a chance to learn something? Where maybe even established player might come in for help?

 

My 2 iron, have fun!

Edited October 8, 2013 by Xandra