Support Beams

[Thrrim 217]

Can you make it so that you have to leave 1 tile so there is a way out? These things are more of an uber-grief tool and i am mega annoyed from getting trapped in a mine i have no chance of getting out from.

 

It infact destroys the whole purpose of a support beam, the definition of "support" is to: 

sustain - maintain - uphold - bear - back -   prop - backing - help - assistance - aid - rest

 

 

Maybe for their actual purpose to hold up a mine perhaps? Not get you trapped in one forever. Just fix it.

 

*EDIT* Or perhaps make a tool that is specifically for getting out of reinforced mines?

Edited October 3, 2013 by Thrrim

[Touchmee 380]

I will agree its annoying that the only way out is to drop a deed to mine the tiles.

 

Not only that but it as become a way to secure artifacts on deed knowing your enemy cannot and never will be able to get to them if they raid.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Touchmee

[BrokenSanity 717]

Being able to make an impenetrable vault for artifacts, items and people definitely sounds "exploity", I think there should always need to be some way in/out, be it a tile with no support beams, or a minedoor. 

 

+1

[SmeJack 5,806]

Or you could accept that if you want to log out in a mine on an enemy home server (or anywhere for that matter) it will be a risk you take. There is nothing wrong with support beams and there has been many suggestions before to change them. Logging out to avoid death on a pvp server is poor form imo, you take a risk going somewhere and you take a greater risk logging out, it was your decision to log out knowing the risk, or to even go with others who are known for doing it.

 

My suggestion for a tool to get out of a reinforced mine would be to simply not allow yourself to end up in one to begin with

[Joemog 732]

Are we back to crying for changes after every pvp trip again?

[Kagrenac 812]

I've been reinforced in, it sucks, but its a risk.

 

I would be more worried about the whole collapse reinforce tile during a raid never get anything important looted feature that exists. After rolf made merchants tauntable and people have an hour logoff timer, i have no clue how this still exists in a full loot game.

[Thrrim 217]

Lol i was not even the one on my acc at the time - Also this reinforced stuff is ######, It is completely unfair that you should have to lose all your stuff from being completely reinforced in. plus you guys went apeshit on the surface with houses and stuff. And Joemog please put yourself in my position.. How would you feel? 

 

In all honesty i do not care about the items - they are replaceable. But the main issue is the fact that the support beams ARE op. Not that you guys are just trying to argue against it for the sake of getting my stuff.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Thrrim

[Joemog 732]

So you think logging out from pvp is a good feature in Wurm?'

 

I think getting to /suicide, twig or karma home is a small price to pay.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Joemog

[Thrrim 217]

Did you just not read my comment? I am not going to argue in the suggestions thread, if you have a problem just shut up and move along, Mkay? You do not have to post.

[Joemog 732]

You asked for my opinion by asking me to put myself in your place, calm down buddy.

[SmeJack 5,806]

Well there is another risk you took, account sharing. Perhaps your anger would be better directed at the person who put you there.

 

Honestly, loot is meh. For me its more about making you lose out on something rather than us gaining, there are several ways for you to get your things out of that mine that don't require removing supports and all at a cost to you.

[Thrrim 217]

I just said i am not arguing please shh, This is a suggestion thread.

[SmeJack 5,806]

Indeed it is, where I am sharing my thoughts and suggestions also

[Azog 56]

In a game where everything is constantly changing, the world is constantly being evolved/terraformed, nothing is ever there for good, and it's being settled on by many groups of players (sometimes on top of the ruins of old groups of players); the current Support Beams seem completely out of place.

 

My problems with the current Support Beams are as following:

 

1. New Players - It is a player made object that makes terrain completly permanent, and it's completly irreversible if you are not on a deed. To new players this could pose a problem when coming to a world full of these mine tiles and unable to mine or change the world around them. Long abandoned deeds may have expansive reinforced mines, forever in the wurm world and immune to decay and change. Reinforced tiles also lead to un-collapsible which limit natural resource regeneration in the world. Also a new player placing these may unknowingly forever hinder current and future players with this permanent addition to a mine.
   
2. Griefing - When raiding enemy deeds and you happen across a fully reinforced mine, it is all too easy with the right spells or resources to collapse the unreinforced path and make a mine completely unusable to anyone, and with it all being permanent (unless on deed), it becomes a permanent scar on the map and unremediable by any means. Another example of Support Beams possible uses as a griefing tool, is if you are aware of someone being in a mine, either afk, logged off, or just dumb, you can collapse the mines around them,  reinforce them, and leave them in a permanent prison (if the mine lies off deed); only way out is either to karma home or suicide.
   
3. Exploitable - When being raided by an enemy kingdom on your own deed, and having access to the right spells and resources it is possible to make an impenetrable defense against your enemies for you, your comrades, your artifacts (which you are unable to deposit in your bank or log off with in your inventory without it falling to the floor), your horses, and any items (really sky is the limits). By simply creating a reinforced mine with any dimension you please,  storing anything you want in it, and than collapsing/reinforcing the entrance; you and anything you want are 100% safe (even with 1 hour log out times). It just seems completely against the nature of the game and the recent PvP updates that have been added. Artifacts never change hands on elevation, the 1 hour log out time on deed just gets canceled out by this, and what's the whole point of building defenses/walls/locks if everything is so far inferior to a perfect/un-destroyable "safe mine"?
   

My suggestions would be simple and straightforward, add a way to remove reinforced tiles off deed. Now I realize these are a huge part of everyone's deed defense, protecting mines from other players, keeping tiles from randomly collapsing in a well used public mine/tunnel, and are overall a huge part of the current Wurm Online meta-game and any change would be drastically changing that; so I suggest it along the lines of being something very hard to do, time consuming, and tedious. It would be naturally a huge pain to remove, and on deed they would be even harder and more reinforced against enemies attempts to remove them. Either by some priest spell, extensive mining (+1k plus mines, no resource yield), or time consuming bashing (equivalent to bashing a 90ql Tall Wall) it would add some way for players to remove these and make way for expansion, reworking of a mine, or removal of reinforced tiles that were placed with the intention of exploiting/griefing.

 

I believe it would give rise to an incentive to making higher quality reinforcing for important strategic defenses, a way for new and veterans alike to change the world around them as they see fit, a deterrent against griefers, and a more customizable world around players.

[Thrrim 217]

Perhaps make them like minedoors? certain ql = certain strength and you bash the tile remove the beam - and mine through.

[SmeJack 5,806]

it becomes a permanent scar on the map and unremediable by any means.

 

'Unremediable' by any means ... except dropping a deed for an hour

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/79499-getting-rid-of-mine-reinforcements

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

I just said i am not arguing please shh, This is a suggestion thread.

Chill out, those people are arguing why to not implement your idea. you threw up a suggestion and people are arguing whether it should be added or not. That sounds like what you do in a suggestions thread.

[Thrrim 217]

'Unremediable' by any means ... except dropping a deed for an hour

 

Why though? Utter waste of money and effort.

[Touchmee 380]

15+mr (think it was closer to 20 in the end, vs 7BL isnt a fair fight so we did what we could to survive which was log out, it just so happens that i logged firecat out in the mine and then the decision was made to log out outside the mine and as soon as we did you all popped local and i had no time to move him otherwise he would have died like Azog.

 

Regardless of the PvP situation, having something in the game that is permanent unless deed is daft, its been suggested before and i supported it then, and im supporting it now, NOT only because of situations like this but because of artifacts ETC. 

 

'Unremediable' by any means ... except dropping a deed for an hour

so from a GM perspective you think dropping a deed is a suitable and viable way to remove Reinforced tiles... good to know

Edited October 3, 2013 by Touchmee

[Thrrim 217]

Chill out, those people are arguing why to not implement your idea. you threw up a suggestion and people are arguing whether it should be added or not. That sounds like what you do in a suggestions thread.

 

Not really when you have 2 people ganging up on you flaming.

[Shrimpiie 3,665]

I can name  plenty of other threads that that exact same thing happened in, so yes really.

[Azog 56]

'Unremediable' by any means ... except dropping a deed for an hour

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/79499-getting-rid-of-mine-reinforcements

 

I'm well aware Sme, as I said in my post multiple times I'm aware of them being able to removed on deed. The point of the post was to suggest a way to remove them off deed. Please read a post thoroughly before making such a tactless reply.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Azog

[Postes 5,282]

BL tears?

[Aflacduck 2,174]

Seeing as how we're a mountain deed that can easily reinforce everything valuable long before enemies even make it up the mountain, it's hard to say that it's a one-sided suggestion. That said, I care too little to weigh in other than I spent a good 40 hours logged out in a reinforced mine a few months ago. It's a risk you take and you have to have a.backup plan. That said, walling stuff in on deed is silly.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Aflacduck

[thenewcndo 528]

Conservative wurm player Cndo says no

 

-1