[Chaos Only] Changes To The Current Champing System [Chaos Only]

[Redd 4,281]

CHAOS ONLY

 

Been thinking about champing and how it works recently and i'd LOVE to see some changes to the system because champs are hardly used at all at the moment.

 

Current system

 

Currently how it works is that there is a point system where if you get a kill on someone over 50fs, a drain on a deed with 5 or more guards, if you cap a tower, or if you cap a battle camp you get 1 champ point. 1 champ point basically equates to 1 day of champ hood. You start with 10, you lose 15 on death and you can have a maximum of 30. You can only have 3 champs per kingdom, BL being the exception. When you lose champ hood you lose all the perks you gained (50+ to all religion skills, 5 stats across the board, and you are put back to 50faith). You also lose 1 stat across the board when you dechamp.

 

Flaws to the current system

 

The current system isnt used at the moment (imo) because of the point system. It basically requires you to log in every day and pvp. It makes it so you NEED to play, where as most players will pvp every so often. What was a good system has now turned into a chore which you have to do every day in order to keep champ hood. PvP is not something which happens every day, hence why people will not usually champ because you are almost certain to lose champ hood sooner or later.

 

My proposal

 

I propose that we get rid of the point system entirely. Make it so you can have 3 champ per kingdom (Yes BL included because lets face it 6 champs is op) and make it so if you die, you lose champ hood and cannot have it for another year. When you lose champ hood, you loose all the perks you gained, and you lose 1 stat across the board (like what happens now). Add in dueling rings for champs so that champs who are not wanted by the kingdom can be kicked off. And the leaders of PMK's should be able to kick theirs as an alternative.

 

Perks of the proposed system

 

We will get the casters back who used champs to get good casts. We'll have champs back which added diversity to the PvP servers. Champs will actually be used by all kingdoms! The problem with the system before was that there was no limit on the amount of champs you could have, where as with 3 champs per kingdom it'll be balanced.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Redd

[Lancelot 765]

I don't see why not. Bring the ability to champ back as it was but without the abuse .

[Postes 5,282]

I think your proposal and suggestion should wait till there are no active champions.  It's unfair now to pull the rug or make changes to the system while someone is a champion.  

 

They are less common on Chaos, but I can tell you the current system works great for Epic because of the size, population, and towers/battlecamps.  The purpose of the point system is to disallow just casting alts with high channeling, which this suggestion would then allow.  Overall it increases activity and play, your system would allow a few loopholes.  

 

-1 overall, I like the point system though I feel battlecamps should never give 1 point. 

Edited September 25, 2013 by Postes

[Nadroj 3,554]

Seems like a better balance between the old system where we had too many champs and the current one where champs are very rare.

 

+1

[Redd 4,281]

I think your proposal and suggestion should wait till there are no active champions.  It's unfair now to pull the rug or make changes to the system while someone is a champion.  

 

They are less common on Chaos, but I can tell you the current system works great for Epic because of the size, population, and towers/battlecamps.  The purpose of the point system is to disallow just casting alts with high channeling, which this suggestion would then allow.  Overall it increases activity and play, your system would allow a few loopholes.  

 

-1 overall, I like the point system though I feel battlecamps should never give 1 point. 

 

You make a good point, though you have to see why it is so hard on Chaos due to the nature of the map. Possibly make this Chaos only seeming as the Epic system works. That being said tho, the system accommodates for casters, but also means you kingdom can pick who you want to fill the slots. You can have a load of pvpers, or you can do casters, or both, its up to you.

 

EDIT: changed it so its chaos only, no need to worry Chaos peoples!

Edited September 25, 2013 by Redd

[Sharkin 1,319]

We need a change. Not enough pvp to keep up with the champ points and enemies will be extra careful to not give away any.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Sharkin

[Fooligun 591]

I think the points system is useful to prevent casting champions, however I feel that the small 2 week window and the difficulty in obtaining points on chaos prevents players from champing.

You start out with 15 champion points. - Change this to 30 Points

1 point is removed every day.

You can have max 30 points. - Change this to 60 Points

You gain 3 points for draining an enemy deed with 5+ guards. - Apply scale on number of guards to points, As a poor example[ 1 guard - 1 point, 5 guards - 5 points, 50 guards - 50 points]

You gain 5 points for being involved in a kill on an enemy champion. - 10 Points instead of 5, bascailly stealing the points from the champion killed.

You lose 10 points if you die for whatever reason. - Creates the 3 deaths and no champion scenario still.

You gain 1 point when you are involved in a kill on an enemy with 50+ fight skill. You may gain a point like this 1 time per day from the same player, 10 times total from any one player - Increase this on a scale of fs as a bad example [50fs - 1 point, 60fs - 2 points, 70fs - 3 points, 80fs - 4 points, 90fs - 5 points]

Think those changes might be beneficial. Though I wonder what peoples opinions on them are.

 

Edit: Colours

Edit#2: Voted Yes/No for reasons above. I feel it should change but not as the OT describes

[Davy 408]

You wasted an opportunity Red, you know why.

I'm sorry.

[Nadroj 3,554]

The award for the most random weird vague post goes tooooooooo ^

[Kswords 461]

The only flaw I find in this system is that the map is seemingly too big, the terrain is very difficult, with too few players to do enough capping, raiding, killing constantly to keep points up. The champ system we have now seems more intended for Epic, not Chaos. I'm not saying we should get a new map though, I love this map.

 

I suggest perma-death be brought back like the good ol' days, with the limit on champs of course.

 

Or make champ points doubled on Chaos.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Kswords

[Orb 259]

The only flaw I find in this system is that the map is seemingly too big, the terrain is very difficult, with too few players to do enough capping, raiding, killing constantly to keep points up. The champ system we have now seems more intended for Epic, not Chaos. I'm not saying we should get a new map though, I love this map.

 

I suggest perma-death be brought back like the good ol' days, with the limit on champs of course.

 

I agree with Kswords, great bonus comes with great risk. 

[Guest Docterchese]

I suggest perma-death be brought back like the good ol' days, with the limit on champs of course.

 

Perma-death would change barely anyone champing to nobody champing ever... permadeath on megaskilled old accounts would be incredibly dangerous.

 

 

I think the points system is useful to prevent casting champions, however I feel that the small 2 week window and the difficulty in obtaining points on chaos prevents players from champing.

You start out with 15 champion points. - Change this to 30 Points

1 point is removed every day.

You can have max 30 points. - Change this to 60 Points

You gain 3 points for draining an enemy deed with 5+ guards. - Apply scale on number of guards to points, As a poor example[ 1 guard - 1 point, 5 guards - 5 points, 50 guards - 50 points]

You gain 5 points for being involved in a kill on an enemy champion. - 10 Points instead of 5, bascailly stealing the points from the champion killed.

You lose 10 points if you die for whatever reason. - Creates the 3 deaths and no champion scenario still.

You gain 1 point when you are involved in a kill on an enemy with 50+ fight skill. You may gain a point like this 1 time per day from the same player, 10 times total from any one player - Increase this on a scale of fs as a bad example [50fs - 1 point, 60fs - 2 points, 70fs - 3 points, 80fs - 4 points, 90fs - 5 points]

Think those changes might be beneficial. Though I wonder what peoples opinions on them are.

 

Edit: Colours

Edit#2: Voted Yes/No for reasons above. I feel it should change but not as the OT describes

 

I voted Yes, but agree with a lot of what Fooli has to say. We need changes to make the champ system usable, but also don't want to let it get OP or just be for casting alts.

[FireHeart 214]

I vote Yes, because if there are only 3 champs per a kingdom then that really restricts the use of Champ alts used for casting, if a kingdom decides to champ a priest alt then they have one less champ to be used as a fighter.

[Hordern 2,177]

The main reason points were added in the first place is because champs are supposed to get out and PvP - but many were just crafter casters. This change would revert the necessity to get out and PvP. If you want the perks of priesthood AND the ability to craft, you need to continually work for it and game design is that they're there to fight. I'm not saying the current system is perfect, but this change would not help.

[Lau 302]

Notice how all the +1's in this thread are from MR? This is because most of MR's elite is priested up and if this suggestion is implemented MR would have a Chief and 2 +cr titleholders running around as mag champs. Good lobbying attempt, but I hope it won't happen solely for this reason. A chief has +3 CR, with mag champ that is also +4CR. Assuming 90fs which is probably less than accurate, this chief would have an effective 135fs.

 

That would give another player with 90fs which only a few people have, 90/(90+135)=2/5=40% chance to hit said chief while the chief would have a chance of 60% chance to hit on every swing. That doesn't sound too bad right, it's only a 20% difference. I'd be fine with this if the chief didn't also have free scale armor with web enchants, meaning he can retreat to heal up (again for free) at any point in time, plus he has a damage bonus as a mag priest of 25%. The advantage is now so overpowering that the chief cannot be brought down by anything less than the most organized group of fighters that happen to catch him off guard. Don't get me started on the body stats buff as well.

 

Adding in 2 more mag champs you now have a group of 3 that would be able to solo every opposing force that can assemble in a game with as few players as wurm has. Not balanced.

 

The champ system was changed for a reason. People used to have crafter champs that sat on deed and did 95+ enchants all day long, while I miss all my tools being that great I don't want that system back. I think the current system is fairly balanced, although I might agree on some of Fooli's suggestions. Currently it is very hard to hold champ, but on the other hand I also think it should be considering how strong your character is.

 

So again, this is a lobbying attempt from MR that wishes to tilt the mechanics of the game massively in their favor.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Lau

[demondan 1,865]

You have priests too Lau. We'll leave it up to rolf to decide.

[FireHeart 214]

Notice how all the +1's in this thread are from MR? This is because most of MR's elite is priested up and if this suggestion is implemented MR would have a Chief and 2 +cr titleholders running around as mag champs. Good lobbying attempt, but I hope it won't happen solely for this reason. A chief has +3 CR, with mag champ that is also +4CR. Assuming 90fs which is probably less than accurate, this chief would have an effective 135fs.

 

That would give another player with 90fs which only a few people have, 90/(90+135)=2/5=40% chance to hit said chief while the chief would have a chance of 60% chance to hit on every swing. That doesn't sound too bad right, it's only a 20% difference. I'd be fine with this if the chief didn't also have free scale armor with web enchants, meaning he can retreat to heal up (again for free) at any point in time, plus he has a damage bonus as a mag priest of 25%. The advantage is now so overpowering that the chief cannot be brought down by anything less than the most organized group of fighters that happen to catch him off guard. Don't get me started on the body stats buff as well.

 

Adding in 2 more mag champs you now have a group of 3 that would be able to solo every opposing force that can assemble in a game with as few players as wurm has. Not balanced.

 

The champ system was changed for a reason. People used to have crafter champs that sat on deed and did 95+ enchants all day long, while I miss all my tools being that great I don't want that system back. I think the current system is fairly balanced, although I might agree on some of Fooli's suggestions. Currently it is very hard to hold champ, but on the other hand I also think it should be considering how strong your character is.

 

So again, this is a lobbying attempt from MR that wishes to tilt the mechanics of the game massively in their favor.

 

U know Kings/Chiefs can't Champ right 0.o

[Lau 302]

You have priests too Lau. We'll leave it up to rolf to decide.

 

 

While this is true, we cannot have mag champs. We can have Fo champs, but fo champs do not get +4CR and +25% damage.

 

Of course we will let Rolf decide. I am simply bringing the fact that you are lobbying to his attention, assuming he reads this far down.

 

There is no doubt that this "feature" will benefit you the most.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Lau

[Postes 5,282]

You have priests too Lau. We'll leave it up to rolf to decide.

 

The issue is like Hordern stated you are essentially asking to put in a change that is closer to the old system.  Rolf himself devised the point system to do away with champions surviving too long with downtime, freely casting 90+ enchants, etc.  You can let Rolf debate it, but you're basically asking Rolf to remove his current system and return to the old, despite him replacing the old on his own.  

[Lau 302]

U know Kings/Chiefs can't Champ right 0.o

I was not aware of that no, but the +4CR actually does not depend on champ status and only your faith so the point still stands.

[Redd 4,281]

Notice how all the +1's in this thread are from MR? This is because most of MR's elite is priested up and if this suggestion is implemented MR would have a Chief and 2 +cr titleholders running around as mag champs. Good lobbying attempt, but I hope it won't happen solely for this reason. A chief has +3 CR, with mag champ that is also +4CR. Assuming 90fs which is probably less than accurate, this chief would have an effective 135fs.

 

That would give another player with 90fs which only a few people have, 90/(90+135)=2/5=40% chance to hit said chief while the chief would have a chance of 60% chance to hit on every swing. That doesn't sound too bad right, it's only a 20% difference. I'd be fine with this if the chief didn't also have free scale armor with web enchants, meaning he can retreat to heal up (again for free) at any point in time, plus he has a damage bonus as a mag priest of 25%. The advantage is now so overpowering that the chief cannot be brought down by anything less than the most organized group of fighters that happen to catch him off guard. Don't get me started on the body stats buff as well.

 

Adding in 2 more mag champs you now have a group of 3 that would be able to solo every opposing force that can assemble in a game with as few players as wurm has. Not balanced.

 

The champ system was changed for a reason. People used to have crafter champs that sat on deed and did 95+ enchants all day long, while I miss all my tools being that great I don't want that system back. I think the current system is fairly balanced, although I might agree on some of Fooli's suggestions. Currently it is very hard to hold champ, but on the other hand I also think it should be considering how strong your character is.

 

So again, this is a lobbying attempt from MR that wishes to tilt the mechanics of the game massively in their favor.

 

Ah yes another "I dont want it because it will benefit the enemy, and not make the game more interesting" excuse/response. This suggestion has NOTHING to do with the fact that it'll make one side better, its to make it so champs are once again a viable option on Chaos. I miss having champs on the battle field as they spice things up and can turn the tide in a battle.

 

Can you seriously not see past the fact that you strive to need to want to win the game at every conceivable turning, and rather say okay, that system would benefit everyone and would solve a problem which we have at the moment or giving an actual reason why you dont think its a good idea (read above for good arguements against) instead of going "NO DONT WANT IT WILL BE GOOD GOOD FOR MY ENEMYS U MAD BRO". Look at my post on the changes to PMK alliances, i said i would like to see a better system disreguarding the fact that i knew it would benefit my enemy - JK and TDL and in no way would benefit myself. People like yourself make me sick.

 

Look at Hord for example, hes an MR person, and instead of saying "Yea +1" he actually posted a good argument as to why he doesnt think its a good idea, rather then saying "lol no wont be as good for us as it is for you".. i mean sure its not everyones cup of tea..

 

As for the crafting side, i think this system would both accommodate for the crafting champs AND the PvP ones. Its essencially up to the kingdom to decide what they want, and they can taylor what they need at the time - We're basically adding in a new thing the king can do.

 

Next time Lau, look at the bigger picture, rather then thinking about yourself.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Redd

[demondan 1,865]

ohh. i did forget about that Lau. 

[Redd 4,281]

Hell whilst we're at it can we remove this MR can only have mag and JK can only have fo/vyn rubbish? It never really made sense to me...

[Lau 302]

Ah yes another "I dont want it because it will benefit the enemy, and not make the game more interesting" excuse/response. This suggestion has NOTHING to do with the fact that it'll make one side better, its to make it so champs are once again a viable option on Chaos. I miss having champs on the battle field as they spice things up and can turn the tide in a battle.

 

Can you seriously not see past the fact that you strive to need to want to win the game at every conceivable turning, and rather say okay, that system would benefit everyone and would solve a problem which we have at the moment or giving an actual reason why you dont think its a good idea (read above for good arguements against) instead of going "NO DONT WANT IT WILL BE GOOD GOOD FOR MY ENEMYS U MAD BRO". Look at my post on the changes to PMK alliances, i said i would like to see a better system disreguarding the fact that i knew it would benefit my enemy - JK and TDL and in no way would benefit myself. People like yourself make me sick.

 

Look at Hord for example, hes an MR person, and instead of saying "Yea +1" he actually posted a good argument as to why he doesnt think its a good idea, rather then saying "lol no wont be as good for us as it is for you".. i mean sure its not everyones cup of tea..

 

As for the crafting side, i think this system would both accommodate for the crafting champs AND the PvP ones. Its essencially up to the kingdom to decide what they want, and they can taylor what they need at the time - We're basically adding in a new thing the king can do.

 

Next time Lau, look at the bigger picture, rather then thinking about yourself.

 

 

Looking at the big picture is exactly what I am doing. Champs are viable at the moment, just take a look at Jayz.

 

I would like to think that you would not descend into this kind of arguing, but I also know that your posts and comments on the Templars de Lux kingdom made it very clear that you are against 2 allied kingdoms. You were one of the first people to point out that we were overpowered and you wanted templars to disband, because it was in your best interests.

 

I am all for spicing things up, but I don't want to get owned in the process. Templars managed to spice the situation on Wild up, a lot, period. Your gang tried to make sure it was put to an end by being forum warriors. The thread was even cleaned because so many people were accusing each other of cheating and using bad language, so the only evidence of these actions are my memories.

 

I do not care for whether you despise me or not, and your attempts at enticing rage are foolish. I do not use the language you suggest. Your arguments against me are moot because you target my character and not the point of the discussion.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Lau

[demondan 1,865]

All these things MR did to TDL, are we sure we are talking about the same MR? Must have all happened in Laus imagination