The Godawful Creation Process

[VentureCo 94]

I know there have been discussions about this topic without any result in the past, but i just can't help it and point this out again:

The process of creating items is friggin' atrocious. It requires you to first left-click the tool you are going to use. Then you right click the material, navigate through a menu, possibly with submenus and then finally left click again to make the item. All that for one, single item. If you want to create more of the same, you have to go through all of that again. WHAT THE HECK, could it be more annoying?

With the amount of materials needed for walls, buildings, boats etc,.and the failure rate ontop of that, this is simply a joke and the reason i suspect rolf has a secret pact with chiropractors specialized in hands and wrists.

 

First off all there is the question why you cannot bind stuff like "create stone brick" to a key. I was told it has to do with botting protection, which i think is bullcrap. I cannot see the difference between recording and sending a couple more packets vs. recording and sending slightly less packets.

Also i can keybind things that alter the enviroment much more just fine, like digging and mining.

So, just because someone might bot to create effin' stonebricks i have to get sore wrists? What a load of bull.

 

Then there is the question why it has to be such an obscure menu fiddling. Why not a hotbar where you can put creation processes on? Like putting "create stone brick" on a hot bar and all you have to do is activating a stone chisel and hitting that button when you have rock shards in your inventory. Or atleast some kind of "context sensitive" mechanic, where you automatically get the creation menu (including submenus all-in-one) when activating a tool and interacting with the corresponding material (stone chisel activated, right clicking rock shards automatically brings up all the things you can make out of them).

 

I don't want to have to move my mouse and use both buttons for every single item, and i honestly don't see any reason at all why i have to.

 

Maybe i'm missing some key information here as to why keybinding isn't possible, but even then a better menu structure and generally a better way of creating things is certainly possible to implement.

Edited September 19, 2013 by VentureCo

[Hordern 2,177]

Possibly partly because of the aggression and venom directed towards the devs when people think something should be changed? It's not usually the best way to get someone to side with you.

The UI is scheduled for a major overhaul in the future so it all already being looked at. When? Not something anyone can really answer.

[VentureCo 94]

Oh come on, i was being tame there. I only insulted the godawful mechanics, not the people who made them (and the chiropractor conspiracy clearly was a joke).

 

Besides, as i said, this is not a new complaint. I personally made atleast two threads about this in the past, but i never recieved a satisfying answer, or this even being acknowledged as a problem. So when i come back a year later and i see no change at all and couldn't find anything on reworking the UI, i just feel the need to "reword" my complaint in a way that grabs more attention.

 

But that the UI is going to be reworked (eventually) is allready a good thing, which i read here for the first time, if i would've known that i would have asked if their plans include reworking the creation process then.

[starre 2]

I don't normally post on the forums I'm more of a lurker but this is one subject I do have to agree on. The main reason I don't put more time into Wurm is due to wrist/arm and even fingers hurting after just a few hours of playing due to the repetitiveness of the actions you must take within the game. I really do hope when they do introduce a new UI they rework how the crafting is done as it is my main annoyance within the game as well.

Edited September 19, 2013 by starre

[Laiwyn 188]

Possibly partly because of the aggression and venom directed towards the devs when people think something should be changed? It's not usually the best way to get someone to side with you.

The UI is scheduled for a major overhaul in the future so it all already being looked at. When? Not something anyone can really answer.

 

Yeah, when is Budda going to implement that UI change that's he's been on about for...forever?

[Hordern 2,177]

Oh come on, i was being tame there. I only insulted the godawful mechanics, not the people who made them (and the chiropractor conspiracy clearly was a joke).

I know, it could have been much worse, I guess I should have saved my comment for a thread that really deserved it

[Eyesgood 2,121]

Being someone who sells items in bulk (like 1000's of arrows), I know how frustrating it can be to endure the endless clicking of the UI.  Whatever they end up doing to make clicking less frequent, I hope it does not also make crafting less of a process because the crafting complexity (steps, etc.) is one of the reasons I play this game.  I don't want to see crafting get any less complex or more passive.  It's going to be interesting to see how they address this issue.

[Eisenkreuz 23]

As a new player (less than 10 days, got premium a couple days ago), I'm thoroughly enjoying the game.

But I think the awful interface is one of the main factors keeping new players away. I'm loving the multi-step crafting process, but the mouse-clicks? Just no. I have clay and sand in my bag, why not letting me create the goddamn mortar with a single click?

[Hussars 511]

I know, it could have been much worse, I guess I should have saved my comment for a thread that really deserved it

Like anything I'm posting in lately >.<  Think I need to take a longer break from the forums lol

 

On topic, has there been anything more the team might be able to share on the crafting UI revamp?  It's been mentioned a few times on the "To-Do" list and that is being actively worked on for awhile, a teaser update on it might be nice to see the direction everyone is working toward.

[Guest Docterchese]

A UI overhaul is high on our list of priorities. As far as I know, a new crafting GUI is currently being extensively planned and will soon enter development.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Docterchese

[VentureCo 94]

A UI overhaul is high on our list of priorities. As far as I know, a new crafting GUI is currently being extensively planned and will soon enter development.

 

Thanks for the info man. And also, thank god it's being worked on.

[ReaverKane 363]

Possibly partly because of the aggression and venom directed towards the devs when people think something should be changed? It's not usually the best way to get someone to side with you.

The UI is scheduled for a major overhaul in the future so it all already being looked at. When? Not something anyone can really answer.

Then i'll flip the table here. Maybe the devs should start admitting they can make mistakes.That and stop their catering to the minorities in detriment to what would attract more people.

Instead of making watered down features that have no real use (like the maps) for new players, and in fact most of the community in general just not to tickle the sensitivities of the already more than well established, not playing the "survival game" for years, but yet claim that Wurm's best feature is the survival aspect, which is basically only tackled by the new players, who end up quitting because they can no less survive than find where the hell did they drop their corpse last time.

 

So maybe instead of listening to the 10 guys that brown nose their asses on IRC, maybe they should start listening to people in the forums, maybe they should stop testing stuff with GM tools and whatnot, and try to put themselves on a new guy that never saw wurm in the first place, and is struggling to look past the god awful graphics, past the bad interface, the lag, the First person camera, and find something they like in the game, only to be stumped with grindy repetition, long timers and devs that insist in making players lives in general worse, because some handful of players who haven't struggled to survive in years are clinging to the "survival" aspect of the game.

 

Because its us who lose if people stop playing Wurm entirely, yeah, its my montly wages that depend on Wurm, oh wait, that's not it. So why would Devs listen to players complaining, why shouldn't they take it personal when a player is pissed off because the game is frustrating and actually physically unhealthy as crap.

[Guest Docterchese]

The maps addition was decided by all of the staff team in a meeting, I think we had over 20 people for 3 hours discussing things and the meeting was specifically about making it easier for newbies.

 

"Where's the map?" Is such a commonly asked question that we feel it's absolutely necessary to implement some form of basic map for new players. It'll be nothing more than an in-game mapdump but even that will mean a lot.

[Hussars 511]

A UI overhaul is high on our list of priorities. As far as I know, a new crafting GUI is currently being extensively planned and will soon enter development.

 

Thanks for the update!

 

I know the dev team has their hands full (even without me complaining about "stuff" ), and while I may not fully support (or agree with) some of the things going on, I can still respect them for trying.

 

Any thought about getting small sample/focus groups together to bounce the various redesign ideas off of?  Obviously the Dev's don't need approval to make changes, and I'm not sure if it would help defuse later "failout"/nerd-rage from us as a group, but it might.  'Course there is the potential rage from the "why were they picked and not me?" threads lol.

 

*Goes to invest in popcorn stocks*

[Guest Docterchese]

Any thought about getting small sample/focus groups together to bounce the various redesign ideas off of?  Obviously the Dev's don't need approval to make changes, and I'm not sure if it would help defuse later "failout"/nerd-rage from us as a group, but it might.  'Course there is the potential rage from the "why were they picked and not me?" threads lol.

 

*Goes to invest in popcorn stocks*

 

We've thought about it, but the amount of management required would be too high compared with returns. We've discussed using a uservoice-like system more though for fair voting on new features.

[ReaverKane 363]

The maps addition was decided by all of the staff team in a meeting, I think we had over 20 people for 3 hours discussing things and the meeting was specifically about making it easier for newbies.

 

"Where's the map?" Is such a commonly asked question that we feel it's absolutely necessary to implement some form of basic map for new players. It'll be nothing more than an in-game mapdump but even that will mean a lot.

I'm not saying the map wasn't something that was necessary and has been asked to be done for years. What i question is the watered down useless crap we got.

Yeah that will mean a lot, it'll mean a lot in the sense that 1 is better than 0. But doesn't make it helpful. New players will look at the map and extract the same exact quantity of information as without it. Sure they'll know where they started, but there's hardly a way to tell where they are, yeah they can see mountains, but since trees aren't transparent and the map is way bigger than the picture suggests, not even roads present. Players may as well see some player made dirt spire and think "is this that mountain?" People get lost with the community map in hand and it marks deeds and roads and all that, how can you even suggest that a blank map with nothing but a picture of the terrain will help new players in any way?

 

Yeah it shows blips and dots IF you join a alliance or a village that has those, but what about those that want to play for themselves? Or was the other guy right and now instead of a freedom lined sandbox we're "supposed" to join a village?

And without anything between the village blip and the starting town star, how can you possibly believe a new player will feel any less overwhelmed with that map?

Because there's a freaking huge difference between that big picture and what the player has to navigate, there's walled deeds in the way, there's pits, there's roads to follow, forests, creatures to run from, none of that is in the map.

So what if some guy that plays for 10 years wants his "survivalist" experience that he hasn't experienced in 10 years? Who cares? Until the devs stop being afraid of antagonizing those half a dozen guys that play for years and years, the game will always be too harsh of a new player experience to improve the player retention.

[Hordern 2,177]

Then i'll flip the table here. Maybe the devs should start admitting they can make mistakes.That and stop their catering to the minorities in detriment to what would attract more people.

There's quite a difference between 'making a mistake' and evolving the game...

[rosedragon 2,282]

+1 to where is the new UI. Whenever I'm going to create bricks and see that they moved it to the center of the menu, I go facepalm and grumpy... Anti macro surely crucial to make sure that legit players work is worth every click, but I question the tediousness. 

 

ps: not sure if people agree with me etc.. tho I play a flash game named jacksmith and I go through its more-process creation system just fine because how mastery feedbacks, and rewards come with each weapon made. Finished the game in two runs, neverthless I did more than 100 weapons in a single playday.

[ReaverKane 363]

There's quite a difference between 'making a mistake' and evolving the game...

Yes, but they make mistakes and carry on with them pilling flaw after flaw into the game, want examples?

- The deed animal ratio, was created completely avoidable, had issues with wild animals on caves and walking into deeds, and its "blind" (meaning a player that has a 20x20 deed and devotes 10x10 to animals still has a smaller ratio than a guy with a 30x30 deed but with his animals on a 5x5). Some of these errors were "fixed" but not completely, wild animals were made to avoid deeds, but don't do it entirely, then it was necessary to put a castrating ratio on off-deed animals, which probably was removed, i think since the number of diseased wild animals has decreased, and even still with the bad ratio outside deeds (which sux for newbies btw) people were still getting along fine with keeping the bulk of their herds off-deed. So yeah a mistake, a crappy solution that didn't evolve the game.

- Then farming that although got a bit better with the posterior tweaks was only made more complex server-side, and as far as player experience it was nerfed with the possibility that if you work hard at it and the RNG helps it comes out better.

- Rolf's apparent hatred of having players know what to expect to the game that extended so far as to remove meditation answers from the wiki. Which is tantamount into asking players to read his mind or have a 1/4 (or was it 6?) chance of having to wait a month or so at a new shot.

 

Only time i saw Rolf admit a mistake and roll it back was with deed lamps and the olive oil + oil barrel thing. Was the only time he actually corrected his error and improved the game with that correction.

 

LOL jacksmith!!! But yeah, a crafting system like that would be much more entertaining.

[Klaa 4,872]

I shall await the new crafting with bated breath and sharpened claws, especially for complaining.

[Majorminor 2]

Here's a suggestion, the ability to make bulk items, like 10 at a time, but it takes 3x the time it takes to make them one by one.

obviously the devs can set the numbers to what fits and make it stay worthwhile for the 'one click one item' player.

[ReaverKane 363]

Here's a suggestion, the ability to make bulk items, like 10 at a time, but it takes 3x the time it takes to make them one by one.

obviously the devs can set the numbers to what fits and make it stay worthwhile for the 'one click one item' player.

You can kind of do it already. Just depends on your Mind Logic. For you to do 10 you'd need 90 ML, max actions you can do with 1 click is 11.

If i remember correctly, you have like 40 or so ML, so 5 bulk items at a time.

 

Making bulk items is just the time of the problem. Problem is that you need to do items in bulk that aren't really bulk items, like for WS which is a pain to level, as idk if you know, you bought Major from Elite, or are you him with a new forum account?

[WesncIsMe 492]

Then i'll flip the table here. Maybe the devs should start admitting they can make mistakes.That and stop their catering to the minorities in detriment to what would attract more people.

Instead of making watered down features that have no real use (like the maps) for new players, and in fact most of the community in general just not to tickle the sensitivities of the already more than well established, not playing the "survival game" for years, but yet claim that Wurm's best feature is the survival aspect, which is basically only tackled by the new players, who end up quitting because they can no less survive than find where the hell did they drop their corpse last time.

 

So maybe instead of listening to the 10 guys that brown nose their asses on IRC, maybe they should start listening to people in the forums, maybe they should stop testing stuff with GM tools and whatnot, and try to put themselves on a new guy that never saw wurm in the first place, and is struggling to look past the god awful graphics, past the bad interface, the lag, the First person camera, and find something they like in the game, only to be stumped with grindy repetition, long timers and devs that insist in making players lives in general worse, because some handful of players who haven't struggled to survive in years are clinging to the "survival" aspect of the game.

 

Because its us who lose if people stop playing Wurm entirely, yeah, its my montly wages that depend on Wurm, oh wait, that's not it. So why would Devs listen to players complaining, why shouldn't they take it personal when a player is pissed off because the game is frustrating and actually physically unhealthy as crap.

 

You again?

[Majorminor 2]

You can kind of do it already. Just depends on your Mind Logic. For you to do 10 you'd need 90 ML, max actions you can do with 1 click is 11.

If i remember correctly, you have like 40 or so ML, so 5 bulk items at a time.

 

Making bulk items is just the time of the problem. Problem is that you need to do items in bulk that aren't really bulk items, like for WS which is a pain to level, as idk if you know, you bought Major from Elite, or are you him with a new forum account?

Actually I'm the original owner of majorminor, i sold it to elite 3 years ago, I guess what you are referring to is making the actual weapons (activate handle, activate blade, repeat), then I guess my suggestion wouldn't work.

[Bombattle 7]

We've thought about it, but the amount of management required would be too high compared with returns. We've discussed using a uservoice-like system more though for fair voting on new features.

 

 

Doc I reckon your a fair man and all but you really dont understand your job well. You should be a GM. PIO's dont shoot THAT straight. I deleted the rest of my post due to being counterproductive.

 

If your open to feedback id ask the new Dev Red Baron for a brow bag on empathy and active listening.

 

cheers.

 

BB