Money Distribution Improvements

[Pollo 146]

i think maybe can be more better make the upkeep payed manual and move that conversion to the citizen or take the money from the upkeep in someway but dont know if is a good idea for sure someone can enjoy buy/sell but thats something that only mayor can relaize for each deed and time will make that happen but its no correct people using alt then take each hours the ammount of money reserve to other citizens.

Are you saying use this as a "barter" system.  Trade trash items in for deed time maybe?  Or that each person should have a set limit they can recieve back rather than have the Kingdom fund capped so that people can not farm with alts until the fund runs out and not allowing it to benefit the people it is meant to help?

[Smilingcat 442]

Questions: 1. Do those "useless" items sold to the different money pool just disappear magically then?

2. Will those useless items count towards the ratio?

Otherwise I see a risk of even more traders being locked up because useless stuff would clutter their inventory and decrease income chances.

 

Why not just make a merchant that people can set to accept bulk items to help the economy? I can see alot people doing that if it becomes available.

That would allow the established folks to focus on the more sophisticated tasks, while newcomers get some income and skills up easily, without needing to

wait for "employers" to be online and hire them or having to travel long distances. (The only two big hold ups for a newcomer to begin making coins!)

Like, planks for example. Every noob can make them, and alot people need planks.

With a merchant that could be set to let's say accept planks at 10 iron coin per item up to a maximum of 5 silver coins,

I would see alot people setting those out. Same with rock shards, dirt, certain seeds / plants etc.

Maybe with an option to set a quality level on those too. Like, 30+ ql for Sage for example, and to accept them at 10 iron coin up to 1 silver.

In addition of course bulk bins on carts would make sense to easily transport those bulk items between the starter towns and where they are needed.

That would REALLY help the economy.

Beside that i would suggest to allow the mailboxes accepting and transporting EVERY item , and ask only one discounted bulk fee for combined bulk stuff.

For example ropes and cotton are currently a huge issue to transport due to their bulkiness.

Combined and mailed it would definately make sense to trade those more often.

Let's face it, transporting stuff all over the map is just a very boring yet very dangerous and time consuming option which really does not enhance gameplay and is only an option at all for those who are able to be online full days at a time.

Those who only have one or two hours to play every day do not even manage to find someone to transport items to them in that time.

So the suggested mailbox improvement and merchants that players can set to accept certain things,

THAT would really help and encourage player to player interaction without raising any greed and anger over a change in distributing "coin gifts" as suggested.

Just my opinion from a player who is with the game since 2004 and basically and has seen alot of changes to the wurm economy since then.

I am not saying the current trader system is the optimum. It is really far from it, but I do not see alot good in the current change suggestion.

If money should really be distributed from Rolf's spare resources to newbies, my suggestion would be to give them a start balance and/or credits for completing tutorial missions. Some things that could be done quick and help gain some game overview.

I would personally (as someone who could actually SPEND coins ) rather see the suggested changes with mailing, merchants and bulk bins on carts/ships instead.

For purely egoistic reasons but also because I think it will vastly improve the wurm economy, help newcomers to an income, and encourage trade.

[MamaDarkness 880]

rolf, if you want to clean up the database more, why don't you also allow 1000 or more items in the trash bin?  At least on my deed, the meals etc. would not be laying around by the thousands if i could trash bin them.  But it's too much a pain to load 100 only and wait to decay just so you can load 100 more later so they just sit in piles on the ground to decay naturally.

[certix 4]

Are you saying use this as a "barter" system.  Trade trash items in for deed time maybe?  Or that each person should have a set limit they can recieve back rather than have the Kingdom fund capped so that people can not farm with alts until the fund runs out and not allowing it to benefit the people it is meant to help?

 

its just an idea man but i spend like 8hours clean up all deed and care offcourse for the upkeep but citizen most have power to help the village grow in someway little part or destroy it.

[ReaverKane 363]

rolf, if you want to clean up the database more, why don't you also allow 1000 or more items in the trash bin?  At least on my deed, the meals etc. would not be laying around by the thousands if i could trash bin them.  But it's too much a pain to load 100 only and wait to decay just so you can load 100 more later so they just sit in piles on the ground to decay naturally.

Get a big pig pen and drop them there, Or make enough trash bins to cover all the meals (its a drag, i know).

 

Questions: 1. Do those "useless" items sold to the different money pool just disappear magically then?

2. Will those useless items count towards the ratio?

Otherwise I see a risk of even more traders being locked up because useless stuff would clutter their inventory and decrease income chances.

 

Why not just make a merchant that people can set to accept bulk items to help the economy? I can see alot people doing that if it becomes available.

That would allow the established folks to focus on the more sophisticated tasks, while newcomers get some income and skills up easily, without needing to

wait for "employers" to be online and hire them or having to travel long distances. (The only two big hold ups for a newcomer to begin making coins!)

Like, planks for example. Every noob can make them, and alot people need planks.

With a merchant that could be set to let's say accept planks at 10 iron coin per item up to a maximum of 5 silver coins,

I would see alot people setting those out. Same with rock shards, dirt, certain seeds / plants etc.

Maybe with an option to set a quality level on those too. Like, 30+ ql for Sage for example, and to accept them at 10 iron coin up to 1 silver.

In addition of course bulk bins on carts would make sense to easily transport those bulk items between the starter towns and where they are needed.

That would REALLY help the economy.

Beside that i would suggest to allow the mailboxes accepting and transporting EVERY item , and ask only one discounted bulk fee for combined bulk stuff.

For example ropes and cotton are currently a huge issue to transport due to their bulkiness.

Combined and mailed it would definately make sense to trade those more often.

Let's face it, transporting stuff all over the map is just a very boring yet very dangerous and time consuming option which really does not enhance gameplay and is only an option at all for those who are able to be online full days at a time.

Those who only have one or two hours to play every day do not even manage to find someone to transport items to them in that time.

So the suggested mailbox improvement and merchants that players can set to accept certain things,

THAT would really help and encourage player to player interaction without raising any greed and anger over a change in distributing "coin gifts" as suggested.

Just my opinion from a player who is with the game since 2004 and basically and has seen alot of changes to the wurm economy since then.

I am not saying the current trader system is the optimum. It is really far from it, but I do not see alot good in the current change suggestion.

If money should really be distributed from Rolf's spare resources to newbies, my suggestion would be to give them a start balance and/or credits for completing tutorial missions. Some things that could be done quick and help gain some game overview.

I would personally (as someone who could actually SPEND coins ) rather see the suggested changes with mailing, merchants and bulk bins on carts/ships instead.

For purely egoistic reasons but also because I think it will vastly improve the wurm economy, help newcomers to an income, and encourage trade.

I'm guessing the answer to your questions is clear IF you read the text carefully. Its not just a trader thing, you can sell these items at deed tokens, merchants and traders. So i'm guessing it will be a new command common to those 3 "NPC".

Although i agree that adding a "TO BUY" list to merchants would be awesome, its unrelated to this particular change.

 

its just an idea man but i spend like 8hours clean up all deed and care offcourse for the upkeep but citizen most have power to help the village grow in someway little part or destroy it.

Citizens can already donate money for upkeep if that's what you're saying. With new system, as it is, they will be able to trade money from the token by selling rubbish, and then give it back to the deed for upkeep.

[Tpikol 1,057]

rolf, if you want to clean up the database more, why don't you also allow 1000 or more items in the trash bin?  At least on my deed, the meals etc. would not be laying around by the thousands if i could trash bin them.  But it's too much a pain to load 100 only and wait to decay just so you can load 100 more later so they just sit in piles on the ground to decay naturally.

or even better,allow anything to fit in altars to be sacrificed,right now some random things dont fit,like pelts,and bigger items dont fit either

[Kegan 3,926]

As much as i have used traders for my game money it needed reworked. I guess we will see what this brings but sounds like you will need to work the traders everyday now so keeping large amounts of them will be a chore.

 

Guess i need to make my rounds early this time to get what i can before it goes live, lol 

Edited September 19, 2013 by Kegan

[Schiann 994]

Looks like a good addition to the trader system. The amount of money seems right at that amount I'd have no interest in "farming" it. If it went as high as Fatboy suggested now it's worth it to me to farm as I play 8 hrs a day and longer on weekends.

 

This.  I don't think the majority of vets will be bothered with a few copper, so the intended group should get the most benefit.  Any higher output and it does become more tempting to those who don't really need it so badly.

[ReaverKane 363]

As much as i have used traders for my game money it needed reworked. I guess we will see what this brings but sounds like you will need to work the traders everyday now so keeping large amounts of them will be a chore.

 

Guess i need to make my rounds early this time to get what i can before it goes live, lol 

 

Again, did you guys fail to notice that this doesn't work only on traders?

I'm guessing this won't be affecting player owned traders at all, even if the items sold will affect ratios, nothing will change for people who keep their traders locked up.

 

[EDIT: Quoted the wrong post xp]

Edited September 19, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Kegan 3,926]

I guess the hard part for me is knowing what is considered "junk" and is capped and how will it effect the ratio. Will only the better stuff be counted, will the ratio even matter anymore? Do we use part of our draining allowance when we work with the better ql stuff as we are draining? So many factors that are unknown at the moment guess i need to hit up test and check some things.

[ReaverKane 363]

I guess the hard part for me is knowing what is considered "junk" and is capped and how will it effect the ratio. Will only the better stuff be counted, will the ratio even matter anymore? Do we use part of our draining allowance when we work with the better ql stuff as we are draining? So many factors that are unknown at the moment guess i need to hit up test and check some things.

I doubt items even go to the trader's inventory, since you can also sell them in tokens, and merchants. Plus keeping them on trader inventories won't take them out the DB, will it?

Edited September 19, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Eyesgood 2,121]

BRILLIANT!!!!!   Love it, Love it, Love it!

[froggy25 81]

So how anyone do anything on the test servers, took me an hours to somehow respawn at a settlment and after some forage attempts, i was unable to sell a lingoberry to a token because: [16:35:34] There are apparently no coins in the coffers at the moment.

[Amadee 1,543]

Low quality, usually useless items can be "sold" to traders, merchants and tokens. Select the item, right-click and you get the option sell. You will receive up to 10 iron coins depending on quality level. We don't care if it's a hard item to make or just some nettles you've foraged. Keep it if you don't want to sell it. The action takes 3 seconds.

You can currently sell items like this for up to 5 copper per hour. If you do the math, that's several hundred items so most people will have trouble finding or creating items fast enough to sell them like this. Reboots will reset this allowance, which I see no problem with since they usually happen about once or twice per week.

 

 

If I'm reading this part right, it appears that we will no longer be able to sell anything for more than 10 iron, and sell no more than 5 copper per hour on our own traders.  Is that right?  

 

If so, then this would effectively end trader income as it is now.  And traders will no longer be needed since the token can be used.  Sure am glad I didn't buy a trader for my new deed now if it works out this way

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amadee

[Tpikol 1,057]

If I'm reading this part right, it appears that we will no longer be able to sell anything for more than 10 iron, and sell no more than 5 copper per hour on our own traders.  Is that right?   If so, then this would effectively end trader income as it is now.

no if i understand it correctly,this is unrelated the traders or their money,just an adition for new players,that wont affect traders or their ratios

[Balmore 261]

As far as I understand, the current system remains and there is an extra newbie drain feature being added, righto?

 

So I think this sounds a fair solution, considering that traders had to be bought for 50s... It would be mean if they were rendered completely useless.

 

But so far I guess this is a nice addition.

[Amadee 1,543]

But the way it's worded implies that items sold to a trader as well as the tokens/merchants, are capped at 10 iron regardless of difficulty in making it.  How does this not affect the existing trader system?

 

And if we have to farm our own traders for a few copper per hour, how do we maintain a ratio in order to have money on the trader?

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amadee

[whykillme 1,621]

I think the amount gained per hour should rise, as some players cant play the game more then 1-2 hours a day. id say make it 10- 20c an hour. that way youll gain a fair bit a month, but least youll be bout on par with traders . Also rolf, I love this idea, best solution ive seen to the problem! :-)

Yeah, those people that play 1-2 hours a day are going to love collecting items and selling each and every one of them seperetaly (1000 / 2000) items for the time they are playing.. loads of fun.

This system will fail, you can't make it worth so much, because then everyone will start doing it.

If its not worth enough, like now, 5 copper a hour. You have to collect shitty items, then trade it shitty items (which is selecting the item to sell > x500x3seconds) =1500 seconds. 3600 in a hour.

 

3600-1500-2100 seconds left ot the hour. Those 2100 seconds you will spend gathering items (Hell, can you even collect so many items in 2100 seconds as a newbie?). 

 

If you can simply drop in the items, everyone will start doing it. If they are worth more, everyone will start doing it aswell.

 

This system will fail...

Edited September 19, 2013 by whykillme

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

5c per hour, maximum of 1s 20c per day, 9 days to max premium or a deed form.

say 1hr (just an example number) to make the items to make the 5c

That effectively doubles the time to reach 10s to 18days.

So, 18 days of a 30 day month, you are standing in one spot, slaving away... enjoying 12 days of your premium, half of which are probable spent gathering materials so you can slave away those 18 days.

Guys, this is nice to bank some coin for a rainy day... but I wish NO ONE to endure the life of pain and slavery it'd take to make this system work for buying you premium.

Bust out a rare hammer or two, make your prem that way. This is the equivalent of a kickstarter... not a steady income or even sane way to make coin.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Nomadikhan

[Kegan 3,926]

I think that when you open the trade window you will get two options one is the old one and will buy what it can and count to the ratio. The second option is to right click the "junk" items in that same window making all the right click sales going to the newbie system. This is what i THINK is the deal but i am at a very slow connection and still downloading the new test stuff. ;(

[Hussars 511]

I'd also suggest that there be a cap on the ql of items you can do this with.  Folks grinding out a craft skill produce hundreds to thousands of items per skill being worked on during the grind, without a ql cap all of them could be subject to trade for up to the 5c per hour.

[Eyesgood 2,121]

But isn't that the point - to allow up to 5c per hour as a source of income for new players?  So why does it matter or why should the ql cap be there?  It is very likely that if someone is making high quality items, this system is not going to be profitable for them and they are likely making coin by selling their items.  

[KunAlt 844]

Apparently no one noted that even the mechanic for this selling are totally different that the usual way to drain a trader.

 

You need to ACTIVATE the item you want to sell and then RIGHT-CLICK the trader/merchant/token and a new option for sell will show up. 

 

Plesee people read the full proposal at least 2 times, think on it for at least 10 minutes then come and post.

Edited September 19, 2013 by KunAlt

[Bullbrand 63]

Low quality, usually useless items can be "sold" to traders, merchants and tokens. Select the item, right-click and you get the option sell.

......

......

 

The money is drawn from the kings coffers just as when money is distributed to traders. There's a reserve that he won't give out like this reserved to traders and if the money reaches this limit he won't accept the item. The king coffers on most servers currently has a surplus that isn't distributed so there is little risk that those with traders see a decrease in their income.

 

 

 

These changes will not impact how traders currently work, it's a new system as an add-on to the current one.

 

 

I'd also suggest that there be a cap on the ql of items you can do this with.  Folks grinding out a craft skill produce hundreds to thousands of items per skill being worked on during the grind, without a ql cap all of them could be subject to trade for up to the 5c per hour.

 

There is a cap, it's for low-ql items, with a max sell value of 10i per item.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Bullbrand

[Amadee 1,543]

Apparently no one noted that even the mechanic for this selling are totally different that the usual way to drain a trader.

 

You need to ACTIVATE the item you want to sell and then RIGHT-CLICK the trader/merchant/token and a new option for sell will show up. 

 

Plesee people read the full proposal at least 2 times, think on it for at least 10 minutes then come and post.

 

There is no need to be rude.  I did read it more than 2 times and I did think about it.  I then posted my concerns based on how I read it.  If I did not read it exactly the same as you, that does not negate my right to post what I perceive as a concern

Edited September 19, 2013 by Amadee