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Rolf

Money Distribution Improvements

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 I would like to suggest (like other have already) that only premium characters be allowed to access this feature.

 

 

Not only no but heck no! Would defeat its purpose...is intended for those who are unable to make high ql things to have some income.....

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Not only no but heck no! Would defeat its purpose...is intended for those who are unable to make high ql things to have some income.....

 

Newly premiumed characters are unable to make high ql items. Making this a premium only feature would prevent alt spamming and abusing this system as well as provide another strong incentive for people to put money into the game and buy premium.

 

I think people forget that this is not a free to play game, it is an unlimited free trial. This feature should not be a part of the trial.

Edited by McGarnicle
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I think the hope is to help people in free accounts feel like they are part of the game more and eventually help them move to premium.  Getting a little pocket change may make the daunting feeling of acquiring enough currency for premium seem a little bit closer.


 


Rather than just make another perk that hides behind the premium gate.


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Newly premiumed characters are unable to make high ql items. Making this a premium only feature would prevent alt spamming and abusing this system as well as provide another strong incentive for people to put money into the game and buy premium.

 

I think people forget that this is not a free to play game, it is an unlimited free trial. This feature should not be a part of the trial.

 

Which was why I asked for them to ql cap items.  Unless something changed from the version on the Test server, any ql items can be used, and as some of the folks testing discovered, easily made high ql items (that usually have no market) require a lot less of them to hit the 5c/hour cap.

 

Capping the max ql makes it harder (but not impossible) for more experienced players to still use the feature, but keeps it centered on the F2P and/or newer players.

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ROFL again...like any experienced player is going to waste hours per day for 5c, or sell their 90+ ql items for 10iron. Then repeatedly click to sell said items they just imped to that level one at a time... 


 


and if they want to spend the time in the attempt to imp AND sell 50 (ql 90) items per hour.. or 500 ql 10 items per hour for 5c...well more power to them. ROFL


 


Seriously..not an issue..


Edited by Emane

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ROFL again...like any experienced player is going to waste hours per day for 5c, or sell their 90+ ql items for 10iron. Then repeatedly click to sell said items they just imped to that level one at a time... 

 

and if they want to spend the time in the attempt to imp AND sell 50 (ql 90) items per hour.. for 5c...well more power to them. ROFL

 

Seriously..not an issue..

Because history has shown, where there is even one willing to do so, others will follow:

 

I'd rather have a gold coin a month then a few measly bonus to rare creation and enchanting. You don't think someone could make a gold coin a month? 10 accounts maxing there 5c per an hour is 50c an hour. So if the high skill crafter maxes fatigue making this stuff one could at least get 12 hours worth or 6s a day. 6s times 30 days is 180s in a month. Although, the pool will likely run dry before this happens. 

Also, I can max the bonuses in an hour or so spamming cordage rope and I'm confident many others can do the same.

 

For the record I spend silvers to set up public trades, manage ratio to keep them paying out, and open them for anyone to drain. I'm not interested in gaming this system the ways I'd described. But I'm confident others are already making these plan as we speak.

 

 

Do you really not know anyone running 3 or more characters at a time?

 

Or people who don't have bsb's full of "junk" that normally has no value, but can now be sold for coin (no matter how little it might be to you)?

 

Seem to remember a lot of folks saying Traders were working as intended as well.  While by code standards they are/were, Rolf stated that the way they are actually being used was not in his intent, hence this new option to help get things back to where he feels they should be.

 

So again, never under estimate a player's ability to game a system, any system, they feel gives them something they feel is worth it.  Even if it does not do so for you.

Edited by Hussars

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high player selling 90+ ql items for 5c per hour...requires them to create AND imp each item to 90+ in 69 seconds...GL with that. 


 


Low level player doing 10 ql items must make and sell 500 items per hour making their creation time under 4.2 seconds per item..

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Emane, there are many items in the game that are 90ql on creation. A good farmer will have tens of thousands of crops sitting in bsbs. Ropes, locks, any lump, string. Take a high ql log and make handles or pegs. I'm probably missing a ton of other stuff.

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To get that 10i you need non damaged 90+ql items.  If someone chooses to waste such high ql items for so little monetary gain , then fair play to them imo

The problem with the system is it most benefits folks with high skill, high ql high WOA tools. These people can already make plenty of money selling tools and other goods. The group that needs the money are low skill players.

Don't get wrapped up in nitpicking the specific numbers. You could make a boat load of money spamming 7i too. I also think your misrepresenting what things are really worth too. As an example, I struggle to sell 98 ql farm crops for 5i each.

Anyway I"m not interested in this. I got 5g in the bank, enough to pay Wurm for free for years. I'm just pointing out that the system has a flaw in who it most benefits.

 

One solution: flip the payout relationship so low ql pays high and high ql pays low.

 

 

edit:  "one solution: flip the payout relationship so low ql pays high and high ql pays low."

Edited by joedobo

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Because history has shown, where there is even one willing to do so, others will follow:

 

 

 

Do you really not know anyone running 3 or more characters at a time?

 

Or people who don't have bsb's full of "junk" that normally has no value, but can now be sold for coin (no matter how little it might be to you)?

 

Seem to remember a lot of folks saying Traders were working as intended as well.  While by code standards they are/were, Rolf stated that the way they are actually being used was not in his intent, hence this new option to help get things back to where he feels they should be.

 

So again, never under estimate a player's ability to game a system, any system, they feel gives them something they feel is worth it.  Even if it does not do so for you.

I always run 2 chars, sometimes 3~4 chars at once, sometimes even more when i really have to.

But i have to agree, people who can dish out lots of high ql items, won't be using them to gain 10i.

 

And joe idk where you're selling but farm crops sell pretty well if you're selling to the right people.

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Sell is supposed to be key bind-able, stacks can be placed in quick slots, and no one said they'd stand there and do nothing but make and imp up to 90ql.  Just that something that someone may be grinding on and/or that can be stacked in bsb's which normally has little to no value for resale, place the bsb next to the token/vendor/merchant, place an altar and a priest can sell the items in between their prayer timers for a little extra coin.


 


Which does not benefit the new player, can drain the reserve set aside for this, and doesn't require you to interrupt anything you're normally doing.


 


But you know what, I'm really just too tired to continue this today, so enjoy.


Edited by Hussars

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I really think that's a brilliant idea.


 


The price per item is low enough to not make it worth for anyone (new or old) to abuse / spam it.


 


Yes, I'm sure that immediately after launch, a lot of people (me included) did a spring cleanup and sold a tons of items they just hoarded in BSBs and FSBs. But these stocks will be exhausted soon and from that point forward anyone wanting to get the money will have to really grind them.


 


I can see a possible potential for someone to "exploit" the system and get the 5 coppers every hour. And one item I can think at which would be easy to make, directly high quality, and consuming very low materials are bow strings. Let's say that someone has high QL wemp, high ropemaking skill and a good (WOA) ropetook. He should be able to make 70+ QL bow strings, which sell for 8 irons. Making and selling one would take him less than 10 seconds. To make their 5 copper per hour, they will have to sell 63 bow strings, which will take 630 seconds, so a little more than 10 minutes every hour. I can even imagine some nolifers doing this 8 hours per day, on three characters and ending up with 5 * 8 * 3 = 1.2 silver per day, or 36 silvers per month. But is it worth? Definitely not. 36 silvers is 36 euros (at gold sellers price). Would you imagine anyone working (because that's not playing) 8 hours per day (at least part of it), 30 days per month for 36 euros? I don't. Really don't. You can make more than this working a dead shift at Wallmart. But let's say I'm wrong and there will be some weirdos doing it. But they will definitely be a minority and won't affect the big picture.


 


Personally, my guess is that very few people (either old or new) will relay on this as their income source, but more like all of us will use it now and then to get rid of some items instead of throwing them in a trash bin. Or maybe someone (new players especially) will farm this for a few hours to make enough money for a basic tool. It's good to make 20-30-40 coppers in a couple of days for a small goal, but definitely not worth to relay on it to pay for your premium membership.


 


So I find it a good addition - a way to earn some money now and then (maybe pay your deed maintenance with this? after all at minimum cost that's only 3.33 copper needed per day), but not a steady source of income.


 


Well done, Rolf! :)


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I know.. said I was going to leave it alone.. but to clarify my opinion:


 


Assumption made in your response:  Use as Primary Income


 


Clarification: Never said it was primary income, only said additional Income to whatever else you are normally doing without the need to stop your normal processes.


 




Sell is supposed to be key bind-able, stacks can be placed in quick slots, and no one said they'd stand there and do nothing but make and imp up to 90ql.  Just that something that someone may be grinding on and/or that can be stacked in bsb's which normally has little to no value for resale, place the bsb next to the token/vendor/merchant, place an altar and a priest can sell the items in between their prayer timers for a little extra coin.


 


Which does not benefit the new player, can drain the reserve set aside for this, and doesn't require you to interrupt anything you're normally doing.


 


But you know what, I'm really just too tired to continue this today, so enjoy.




 


And with that.. have a great weekend everyone.  If I post anymore this weekend, will likely only be in Woodscraps  :ph34r:


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I know.. said I was going to leave it alone.. but to clarify my opinion:

 

Assumption made in your response:  Use as Primary Income

 

Clarification: Never said it was primary income, only said additional Income to whatever else you are normally doing without the need to stop your normal processes.

 

 

And with that.. have a great weekend everyone.  If I post anymore this weekend, will likely only be in Woodscraps  :ph34r:

Humm, i did read your post wrong...

But although i don't think many people will use high ql items to do that, the scenario you posted earlier is quite possible, and is one of the reasons why i find it a bit stupid that this is live 1 day after it was announced to be on test.

Exploits and abusive behaviour have been in question since the beggining, and lets hope that soon enough its accounted for, also if you notice, this being exploited by higher level players was one of my main concerns and i've posted some ideas on how to avoid this (chiefly to add a skill and/or "age" check before allowing the use of the command, as in if a character has been active for over x hours/days or has one skill above lvl y, then the player can't use the Sell command, its a boolean check, shouldn't be too hard to code in as a further restriction. My previous value suggestions were at 70 skill and 30 days i think, 30 days of in-game time is more tha enough to get a good grasp of the game and some nice skills, and at 70 skill most skills are marketable (also added the possibility to exclude FS from this) do note that these values are for Freedom, i guess that in-game time would be smaller for Epic, due to faster skill gains).

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There is one additional tweak that I think should be done.


 


Allow trades in the traders favor (short trades).


 


Take the scenario of a newish player sees a pelt on the trader they want..  They have some items they would love to trade for it.. But the numbers don't line up exactly...  Why not let them trade 3 spindles that are worth more than the pelt?


 


Implementation wise it would be a checkbox on the trade window to allow short trades.  Then the trader will tell you I am short x money when you put the items in.  You click on allow short trades, then you click accept.


 


I don't believe it will unbalance anything and will allow the economy to flow more smoothly.


 


-Scalorn


 


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No...totally different system. Nothing to do with traders whatsoever. 


 




Does this affect the ratio when when someone sells scraps to trader?



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No...totally different system. Nothing to do with traders whatsoever. 

 

Which makes those who have traders that much less likely to complain.

 

i ended up getting my village another 2 days of upkeep(it costs 4.17 silver a month) from this. its a good system in those "oh crap my deed is about to poof" times when you need that quick coin to save the important stuff, but not worth it to get rich, but that is the point, people are supposed to make their biggest income by P2P trading, so for any new players reading this, if you want to earn your premium in under a month, make lots and lots of mortar or bricks, or go find jobs from other people, as this token selling stuff will not get your premium nearly as fast. 

Edited by DocStineTM

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I think it will bring up the flow of money.


I remember in school I was taught that the flow of money makes more money for everyone.


If coins are made by the poor then they could become middle class and they would help the rich get richer.


 


I always want Wurm to be as real as it can. This is a good step in that direction.


I am thankful for the silver that has passed my way through the kings coffers.


It has helped me pay for workers and those workers have bought deeds and paid premium.


 


I think now those same workers will have a bit extra coin and may buy a tool from me from time to time.


I am happy to see them have coin and enjoy themselves more.


I hope it will entice them to buy more silver because one can never have enough silver.


 


Reminds me of a potato chip advert. "You cant eat just one!'


Thank you for Wurm. Its my favorite entertainment besides my wife.


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I don't think these funds should come from the same pool as the traders. Some of us dedicated and long term players that play wurm make a huge investment in buying traders, all of us who own them have a bit of a say in how this will effect us. I know mine has yet to pay for itself. I like your idea Rolf but I don't like the idea it's coming out the same pool as our traders. I understand your trying to give a way for new players to earn a little coin to test the waters so to speak. 8 Months ago i was new player along with my wife and i and her are doing just fine now. New players can earn coin the same way we did, learn to work for someone or join a village! Wurm a game of time and dedication. As one individual stated above, he only has a couple hours a day to play. Everyone ability to play the game and devotion of time to the game differs. With that said how much time a player can or can not devote (no offense to those who lack in time to play) but honestly it has nothing to do with those who can spend more time. That is simply life!


 


Im not with out an idea however,


So this is my idea.


 


Starting locations on all servers are clustered with junk just laying all about. I suggest replacing the spawning point traders with controlled ingame traders that are colored in red and say GM Trader and placed on every spawning point on every server and they cannot be drained of coin like a normal trader and in fact are reset every hour on the funds available to buy merchandise at very low value. In conjuction with this all items within outlined said areas of spawning grounds should be able to be picked up with out threat of theft. If you leave junk lay about on spawning areas then anyone can come along pick it up sell it to a GM trader.  However corpse  and items on corpse could not be picked up until normal time of decay as it is in the game already.  


 


This solves alot problems.


 


Solves the issue of farming the traders, Unless you wanna travel every single day back to the spawning point with boat loads of merchandise, then there really no threat of farming it unless you live right next to the spawning point and even if you did there again you have to sell hundreds of items at a limit to so much per hour. So with that said is it really considered worth it?


 


Solves the issue of where the funds come from, It's a new system as a whole. It doesn't come from the kings treasury its just simply another mechanic of the game designed to cater to new players and even with that said you could modifye this to only be for new players and increase the value of items sold to it. You could give 72 hours of GM Trader time kinda like how players only get so much time to recieve free food from the merchant at the spawning grounds. This also gives new players a worth maybe those who have surplused items of junk laying around would seek business with new players at spawning grounds knowing they could get more through a new player for there useless junk creating more motivation for older more experience players to interact with new players which is really in the end what's needed. Older players then could get to know these new players at a business level and thus villages could grow a tad bit better.


 


I don't know all the programing and work involved in what i propose i just know it won't offend the players who have spent 50 silver, roughly 67 euros on each trader and has yet to see them pay for themselves and now face the threat of being paid even less because of a game change to cater to new players which really in the end won't help that much the way you have it set. What i propose helps them more and takes care of the issue of needless, useless junk laying around the spawning areas.


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I don't think these funds should come from the same pool as the traders. 

 

 and now face the threat of being paid even less because of a game change to cater to new players which really in the end won't help that much the way you have it set. 

 

ROFL love it when people dont read the thread...Rolf clearly stated that IT HAS NO EFFECT ON TRADER PAYOUTS! NONE! NADA! ZILCH!

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ROFL love it when people dont read the thread...Rolf clearly stated that IT HAS NO EFFECT ON TRADER PAYOUTS! NONE! NADA! ZILCH!

Well to be fair he said "little risk" so there must be some.."The king coffers on most servers currently has a surplus that isn't distributed so there is little risk that those with traders see a decrease in their income."  

 

Edit: he did say that once the cap for the traders funds is reached then the system stops buying things but who knows what that cap is. I am sure he favors this new system over the existing trader darning ones so who knows what will happen. The traders i have all have been paid for a long time now so it will not effect me in anyway but i can see how new investors might be upset at any changes that might occur. 

Edited by Kegan

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