Maps2

[Wraithglow 787]

So, It's being developed with the grand vision of it becoming obsolete?

 

I interpret it more as being a useful tool for beginners to have, or for anyone to have if they just want to quickly determine nearby landmarks, without having to resort to a separate browser.

 

As to those who keep bringing up the problem of it not being updated by terrain changes - in my experience at least with inde there are very rarely changes so significant that the map terrain really needs altering. From what I've seen, the only time this happens is when people decide to increase the accuracy of the map - trying to take it from a rough guide to help navigation and making it a tile-by-tile replica of the world. The usefulness of these in-game maps is not reduced by them missing out on the tiniest alterations we make, and the largest changes (that affect coastlines) tend to be people extending docks into bodies of water, which tends to be really obvious when you look at it anyway.

[ReaverKane 363]

Our intention are not to compete with the community maps, the in-game maps will be there to aid new players(and old) and probably they will seek out for the community maps and the Wurmpedia when they get more into the game.

 

It will show as a static image, we will not change it (not for now anyway)

Well, if its going to be useless. (i mean simple terrain map without no proper labels or landmarks, and with those "artsy" additions is utterly useless) give us the option NOT to download it? I mean if you want to add a map, then half-ass it, then might as well NOT add the map. You'd do better to pool the resources being used to get the map into the game into improving the in-game browser (the one that parses the wiki) so that it can start showing images and proper formatting, that way people could open the community map in game with that.

 

Meanwhile, you could be working on new textures for wood types created from the new trees.

 

Just saying.

Edited September 13, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Suntzu 644]

Full mini map with lazer gui and radar for pvp servers please. It will increase pvp alot.

[Wox 1,477]

 lazer gui  ftw 

[Redd 4,281]

I dont really understand why we're getting a map  which is about 10 times less detailed where the only difference is, is that its not an alts-tab away.

 

If you're going to maps at least make them as detailed as the current ones we have access too. Otherwise... noone will use them o.o

Edited September 13, 2013 by Redd

[Klaa 4,872]

 lazer gui  ftw 

 

With all the pretty colors of the rainbow... get to break out the full palette.

 

[Herrfritz 181]

In my opinion adding only an ingame map won't help new players much - experienced players even less.

 

A nice tool would be a second needle on the compass directed to the starting deed / spawn point of the map.

Thus people were able to 'triangulate' their position on the map at least vaguely.

 

Personally i wouldn't mind having a third needle showing the direction of your 'home deed' or a temporary one showing the direction of your 'last' corpse.

[Protunia 735]

Full mini map with lazer gui and radar for pvp servers please. It will increase pvp alot.

 

 

Yes Plox!!  Can I haz one!!!  pew pew!

 

 

 

----Posted Today, 03:09 AM

I dont really understand why we're getting a map  which is about 10 times less detailed where the only difference is, is that its not an alts-tab away.

 

If you're going to maps at least make them as detailed as the current ones we have access too. Otherwise... noone will use them o.o

 

 

 

Anyhow......People only had the original map dump ( not counting those who used ill gotten dumps..)

at first and used it just fine on the newer servers.

 

Having it in game will help new and old players.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Protunia

[ReaverKane 363]

Yes Plox!!  Can I haz one!!!  pew pew!

 

 

Anyhow......People only had the original map dump ( not counting those who used ill gotten dumps..)

at first and used it just fine on the newer servers.

 

Having it in game will help new and old players.

LOL. Before i even saw my first map dump people were already "hand-drawing" maps with the general shape of the servers and with roads and deed positions on it (that shows how much topography came into the "landmark" department).

No one will use empty maps with a star on it to find their way, because simply, they won't. Unless they don't know the existence of community maps, or are simple utter morons. I'd suggest that the people behind this have someone park a character in the middle of a server while they're not watching, and then try and find their way around using only this map.

 

 

In my opinion adding only an ingame map won't help new players much - experienced players even less.

 

A nice tool would be a second needle on the compass directed to the starting deed / spawn point of the map.

Thus people were able to 'triangulate' their position on the map at least vaguely.

 

Personally i wouldn't mind having a third needle showing the direction of your 'home deed' or a temporary one showing the direction of your 'last' corpse.

Or simply "use" the compass, which would have 1-2 minute "cast" time, after that it would show a dot where they stand on the map. The dot would be connected to a new skill (cartography or whatnot) and would start out very wide, and would getting narrower (and thus more precise) as player skill got higher.

Then maybe at 50+ skill, players can start adding stuff to the map (like right clicking a deed token would add a marker for that deed), right clicking a road tile could add it to the map (2 road marks on the map could be united with enough skill, without having to mark every single tile).

Then later at 70+ players could export their maps, and share with others (getting someone else's markers would override yours, or you could have a dropdown, and be able to load different information at a time).

At 90+ (notice i'm using the usual title levels, but something more reasonable could be done) people would be able to automatically compile other people's shared points into a single map (thus increasing its validity).

Edited September 13, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Kristoff 56]

Nothing like being new to the game and asking if there is a map only to be provided with a questionable URL.

Looking good though the blips are a little large, I like it otherwise! The more in-game content (IE:not tabbing out) the better, I say. 

[Protunia 735]

LOL. Before i even saw my first map dump people were already "hand-drawing" maps with the general shape of the servers and with roads and deed positions on it (that shows how much topography came into the "landmark" department).

No one will use empty maps with a star on it to find their way, because simply, they won't. Unless they don't know the existence of community maps, or are simple utter morons. I'd suggest that the people behind this have someone park a character in the middle of a server while they're not watching, and then try and find their way around using only this map.

 

 

 

errrnt...... wrong.. people do and have used the plain map to navigate and find where they are many times.

 

It has water, tar, clay, peat, rock, sand, moss,etc,etc as well as terrain, noticeable areas and other features that if you have a key for what the tiles color means that's all you will ever need to find your way around.  Heck you don't even need a key at all if you have half a brain......

 

If you cannot navigate with just the map dump you just are not trying and want things easy basically.

 

very easy to know where you are once you learn the basic terrain features.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Protunia

[ReaverKane 363]

errrnt...... wrong.. people do and have used the plain map to navigate and find where they are many times.

 

It has water, tar, clay, peat, rock, sand, moss,etc,etc as well as terrain, noticeable areas and other features that if you have a key for what the tiles color means that's all you will ever need to find your way around.  Heck you don't even need a key at all if you have half a brain......

 

If you cannot navigate with just the map dump you just are not trying and want things easy basically.

 

very easy to know where you are once you learn the basic terrain features.

Again, if you need a map after learning the terrain features, then you really don't have half a brain, but then most people that use the map, use it to find other people's settlements and/or navigate unfammiliar terrain.

So again Protunia, why do you post this crap? I'd say you do it for the need to hear the sound of your voice if this crap wasn't typed in. Seriously, its always the same with your posts, freaking conservative, adverse to positive change. Your aim is to play wurm alone or something?

[Hordern 2,177]

Again, if you need a map after learning the terrain features, then you really don't have half a brain, but then most people that use the map, use it to find other people's settlements and/or navigate unfammiliar terrain.

So again Protunia, why do you post this crap? I'd say you do it for the need to hear the sound of your voice if this crap wasn't typed in. Seriously, its always the same with your posts, freaking conservative, adverse to positive change. Your aim is to play wurm alone or something?

Because he was stating the same as me last time you brought up the same argument - using standard orienteering skills along with the map in an unfamiliar environment and you can triangulate your position and work out where to go. It's the whole basis of map reading and kind of the point of maps in the first place.

[ReaverKane 363]

Because he was stating the same as me last time you brought up the same argument - using standard orienteering skills along with the map in an unfamiliar environment and you can triangulate your position and work out where to go. It's the whole basis of map reading and kind of the point of maps in the first place.

And again, not everyone even knows how to read a topographic map, and even topographic marks have more than just topography.

So tell me how is a player supposed to "orienteer" themselves on a unfamilliar place, based on a map dump created way before people start terraforming stuff like giant spires of dirt (that's a nice landmark to check, oh wait, NOT ON THE MAP).

Truth is the only reliable landmarks are deeds (if on the map at least), and them not showing will help no one.

 

You can say whatever you want, but that's a simple truth. Main feature of wurm is how deeply you can change the landscape, so relying on years old topographic images with a low lvl of zoom, and no other labels, will be utterly USELESS to the average player without your godlike orienteering skills.

[KunAlt 844]

And again, not everyone even knows how to read a topographic map, and even topographic marks have more than just topography.

So tell me how is a player supposed to "orienteer" themselves on a unfamilliar place, based on a map dump created way before people start terraforming stuff like giant spires of dirt (that's a nice landmark to check, oh wait, NOT ON THE MAP).

Truth is the only reliable landmarks are deeds (if on the map at least), and them not showing will help no one.

 

You can say whatever you want, but that's a simple truth. Main feature of wurm is how deeply you can change the landscape, so relying on years old topographic images with a low lvl of zoom, and no other labels, will be utterly USELESS to the average player without your godlike orienteering skills.

 

I can point out of my head at least a dozen of points on Cele where the actual configuration of the terrain doesn´t match at all the original dump map, and thats only on one of the newest servers. I imagine that older ones like Indy have changed a lot more.

 

And in top of that not only the shape of the land has changed, also terrain types, there is  at least one huge tundra that as vanished and only few patches remaining now, same with moss, most of the north desert vanished too replaced for grass and woods, steppe too i think.

[Hordern 2,177]

I don't know of any good sized mountains that have vanished, or large bays that have gone. You say deeds are the only reliable landmark? Many of those appear and disappear far more frequently than any natural waypoints. The maps aren't there to tell you where to go, they're there to help you figure out roughly where you are.

 

And again, not everyone even knows how to read a topographic map

One of the fundamental skills of survival is orientation. Wurm is a survival game. It's an interesting and useful RL skill that can be learned from the game.

[fatboy 448]

for hermit island, Put Fatboys domain of doom! hahah XD nice work!

[ReaverKane 363]

 

I don't know of any good sized mountains that have vanished, or large bays that have gone. You say deeds are the only reliable landmark? Many of those appear and disappear far more frequently than any natural waypoints. The maps aren't there to tell you where to go, they're there to help you figure out roughly where you are.

 

 

 

One of the fundamental skills of survival is orientation. Wurm is a survival game. It's an interesting and useful RL skill that can be learned from the game.

 

Actually, on exo for example, brotopia has taken over a lake and filled it over, basically only leaving two small lakes there. Near Esert there's a huge dirt spire created by players that doesn't show on the map.

True, deeds come and go, which is why one would expect that the in-game map to be more useful, and update automatically. Maybe just add a option on token to keep your deed "annonymous" and not show it on the map.

And unlike those landmarks, deeds are plenty, so if you don't find one on the map, you'll probably find its neighbour, and then know where you are.

And knowing where you are, means you want to know where to go? Or do you use the map to assure yourself you haven't moved from your last position when standing?

Anso, you're missing the GAME part. And orientation as a sport uses military charts usually which have loads of information, like names of towns, roads, railroads, forest trails, etc. Not an empty canvas that looks like a aerial photograph. So really, do you want to compare things? In fact hard part of reading a military chart is how cluttered it can get with information.

[Klaa 4,872]

Whats wrong with learning to read a topographical map in Wurm?

*gasp* Wurm might become... educational!

Reading one is fairly simple anyways. Its just an abstract means of displaying 3D information (slopes) on a 2D surface.

Imagine taking a mountain and slicing it with horizontal planes, then overlapping these slices:

When the contour lines are closer together, it indicates a steeper slope. Further apart lines, shallow slope.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Klaa

[ReaverKane 363]

Whats wrong with learning to read a topographical map in Wurm?

*gasp* Wurm might become... educational!

Reading one is fairly simple anyways. Its just an abstract means of displaying 3D information (slopes) on a 2D surface.

Imagine taking a mountain and slicing it with horizontal planes, then overlapping these slices:

When the contour lines are closer together, it indicates a steeper slope. Further apart lines, shallow slope.

You know... I'm an engineer, and i actually had topography classes, i even had to make one of those maps. But then again, not everyone else has, and the map that we have on the original post is nothing like that, in case you haven't noticed.

And no, i don't think Wurm should start Educating you about stuff that you don't need or want to know. And also topographic charts include coordinates and markers which are labeled so people can interpolate information from the charts.

The map we have has 0 information. Its a pretty bauble, i'd love having it as something you can hang on the walls on your houses, but as far as using it for anything, its useless.

You can pretend otherwise, but truth is, the map as its shown on the beginning of this post (minus the extra markers) is nothing more than a shiny bauble to lure the easily impressionable into believing that wurm is getting better, its the same as planters, pottery plant vases, road curbs, rope fences and whatnot, its just like filler episodes on series and such, eye candy to keep you busy until they bother to work on the stuff that you'd actually use.

And seriously, as far as eye-candy goes, i'd rather have the art department work on new wood type textures for the new trees that this crap. At least it'd have some impact ingame.

Edited September 16, 2013 by ReaverKane

[Haydn 102]

I have to agree with the others that this is fairly useless. A event notification that links you to a player made map would be better than this. Why would you even touch this map with community maps around? Perhaps just for the "feel" of it or for role-play, but even then it sounds like you're just dragging markers around a map.

 

If this is one of those magical stepping stone features that will lead to further ingame advances (like working with the in game browser as someone said) then I am all for it, but if this is simply an attempt to make it easier on new players I don't see it as much use imo.

[Nerisrath 6]

ok so first things first.....they have already decided what they want to do and aren't going to waste the time and resources they put into this by scrapping the project and starting over without at least a test run, so get ready to see this ...like, love, or hate it

 

Now here comes the real mindblower..... Wurm is a medieval themed game, thus the map looks like early medieval maps only more visually appealing....   SHOCKING I know!  imagine an art department that sticks to game theme-ing. 

 

I could care less either way... I learned to play without a map, then learned of the community map project afterwards and use it to locate deeds.  If they think it will help new players and increase Wurm's player base then have at it.

[ReaverKane 363]

ok so first things first.....they have already decided what they want to do and aren't going to waste the time and resources they put into this by scrapping the project and starting over without at least a test run, so get ready to see this ...like, love, or hate it

 

Now here comes the real mindblower..... Wurm is a medieval themed game, thus the map looks like early medieval maps only more visually appealing....   SHOCKING I know!  imagine an art department that sticks to game theme-ing. 

 

I could care less either way... I learned to play without a map, then learned of the community map project afterwards and use it to locate deeds.  If they think it will help new players and increase Wurm's player base then have at it.

Theme and usability are hardly discordant. They can keep the medieval theme, but add markers and labels for deeds, add major roads, and whatnot, without losing the theme. Or do you think people in medieval times made maps just to look pretty? And if you think its visually more appealing than medieval maps, well mate, you never saw one. Those things were hand-drawn pieces of art.

 

And just because its decided, doesn't mean its less of a waste of resources, nor does it mean its too late for them to improve on what they have and add useful information on the map.

Shocking isn't it?

[Hussars 511]

[...]

Now here comes the real mindblower..... Wurm is a medieval themed game, thus the map looks like early medieval maps only more visually appealing....   SHOCKING I know!  imagine an art department that sticks to game theme-ing. 

 

[...]

**cough**https://www.google.com/search?q=medieval+maps&biw=1359&bih=944&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=xpg3UviCAa_vigLk6oG4CQ&ved=0CCoQsAQ

**cough**

 

::edit insert::

@the Dev staff:

 

Again, my major issue is that maps are useful only as long as you have a basis of reference or are able to establish a basis of reference.

 

How often do we see a new player ask "Where am I?" or "How can I find out where I am?" in chat?

 

When you travel to a new city, state, country, you at least know where you entered from, you can reference that with where you are (either by asking or reading a sign) and determine where you came from and which way you're heading.

 

As a new person in Wurm, you don't have this reference.  This is not someone getting out of an airport in a new town or country, you don't even start where everyone says you do (you're actually a bit south and east on a road leading up a steep hill IF you haven't moved yet)

 

So again, if you want to add maps fine, just make them actually useful for the folks you continue to claim they are for, new players.  Maybe labels for the major areas at least (Inner Sea, Colossus Lake, Crystal Lake, etc...).  At least then the folks using them can try and guess where they are and be able to tell others so longer term players can more directly help.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Hussars

[ReaverKane 363]

http://www.medievalists.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Carta_Marina.jpeg

That one should strike home with Rolf and the team (Scandinavia). Do notice the almost complete absence of TERRAIN and the OVERABUNDANCE of information with lots of villages(Labeled and illustrated), roads, rivers, etc.