Wurm Online News Announcement: Our Current Focus

[Ellenmarie 39]

I don't think anyone has actually read what Johan said about the maps a couple pages back.

 

They won't be minimaps, they won't have "you are here", they will be pretty much a window in game, with a shape showing the layout of the land.

They won't be made up of live data from the server, they will be static maps - think an in-game window for the community map, without any sort of markers.

 

I had the same concerns as everyone when I first heard about it, but trust me, this won't upset the game for anyone - only make navigation slightly easier for new people.

A "shape showing the layout of the land" isn't going to help newbies much. I remember discussing the need for an accurate map with fellow noobs when I started in December.

A map showing the layout of the land would be great for players with several months exp in the game, but not enough for noobs. Maybe have two different maps... one for noobs (x marks your spot) & one that's permanent. The one for noobs could expire, like the light that newbies are provided expires.

[Devily 623]

Im happy to see a map. I like those.

[Dextrome 123]

I don't see the need for maps. Maybe a skill to chart your own, and skill level determines accuracy and size... but not an outright  map.

 

Yeah, this would be awesome. Cartography skill for making your own maps (the higher the skill the larger the map you can make etc...) Sort of like in Ultima Online, but then better

 

But a worldmap and minimap would really change Wurm too much.... it just doesn't fit.

[Devily 623]

Better PvP 

 

No thanks..

[Devily 623]

Yeah, this would be awesome. Cartography skill for making your own maps (the higher the skill the larger the map you can make etc...) Sort of like in Ultima Online, but then better

 

But a worldmap and minimap would really change Wurm too much.... it just doesn't fit.

This is a great idea though! I like that one. We could get plant to make Papyrus to use it.

 

[Gamurin 55]

No thanks..

Why not ?

Wise PvP rules and PvP in all is the best part of the game. But Players vs Players not Player with band of alts

[joedobo 1,187]

This is great news, big +1 from me.

 

If you don't like maps, don't look at it!

Not all players think like you, "lost in the woods survivalist". The simple fact is that the subject of maps comes up time and time again. Players do want it and I'd even bet a lot of new player expect it to be available.

- What's my position and those, "we don't have GPS technology". Wurm has magic elements and we could easily justify position locating using magic tools.

- Maps we expect players will make with paint are garbage and shouldn't even be considered. We need in game tools that remove the need to be an artist and knowledge to use external image creating software.

[joedobo 1,187]

I don't think anyone has actually read what Johan said about the maps a couple pages back.

 

They won't be minimaps, they won't have "you are here", they will be pretty much a window in game, with a shape showing the layout of the land.

They won't be made up of live data from the server, they will be static maps - think an in-game window for the community map, without any sort of markers.

 

I had the same concerns as everyone when I first heard about it, but trust me, this won't upset the game for anyone - only make navigation slightly easier for new people.

There needs to be a limited use tool that gives the players position and the ability to add markers to the map. The idea you're describing might actually be a step backwards regarding maps. You should know that low resolution and a image showing just the general shape of the land has not worked out in the past. 

 

Use a base high detail map that is stored client side. Then add layers on top where player add markers (roads, villages, miscellanous POI). A PNG background stored client side plus SVG layers on top with the markers. Make it possible so that players can trade there markers by allowing import/export of those layers.

 

Its such a let down that you guys are going to make a poor ql map with pitiful mapping option just because some players don't like maps. We could easily use magic to find our position ( a long cool down between uses is a decent compromise). 

[4neofclubs 97]

If you dont want maps, toss your compasses too

[Tristanc 570]

The aim is to make it easier for very new players during their first five hours of gameplay. Let's focus on what features can help them out.

Maps seem to be the issue most players posting in this thread have written about, pro and con, so let's dig into the roots of what maps would or would not solve.

First off, I suggest having a "spotlight" shining down upon the new character spawn location in the starter village of each server. This capability is already coded for the game as I've seen it appear during special events at certain locations. Why not keep it permanently on for the location on each server where the new characters spawn? This gives them a very visible reference point to navigate from in a world they have no idea of the layout of. A beacon in the wilderness (or built up patchwork of deeds, whichever you find fits the server). It'd be visible for everybody to see when they're relatively near the starting town, but not so bright as to be visible across the whole layout of the server and would fade as the special pillar of fire-type effects view fades currently the further you move from it.

This, in my strong opinion, would lessen the need for any map or any compass with special "newbie" arrows. Do include a no-drop QL 10 compass for new characters as they leave the tutorial, though, as has been done in the past only make sure it's set no-drop like the other newbie tools.

What then of maps? Well, with the starting spawn town beacon you'd only need a key-to-press/icon-to-click-on to bring up a rough hand-drawn map ingame that only shows the outline of the "server island" and a yellow mark pointing down to the location where the starter town is for that server. No other features shown except for perhaps hand-drawn indicators of mountain peaks, perhaps only those in the broader area around the starting town and whatever lake or inland sea is there. Definitely no roads, though, or towns/deeds except for the starter town that they spawn when first entering the server. No forests or anything else that can be majorly modified/cut down through ingame player actions over time. Do include the starter town name as a text label where the yellow mark points to on this basic map, though. It should be the only text besides an old-fashioned mercator directional arrow to indicate NSEW (as map references, not in any way tied to character's current facing or current compass).

The info the above suggestion would supply would in no way give any advantage to seasoned veterans or affect PvP servers which should have starting towns behind the scenes away from the fronts and not easily be reachable by other kingdom attackers. So there's no imbalance created for PvP there, and maps far more detailed are already available through the community forums. It's also not a map that can be bought or sold, and doesn't require developing any cartography skill. Nothing in my suggestion is exploitable that I can think of, though feel free to post thoughts if you feel Rolf could build upon it for an even better idea to implement.

Thanks all, and I hope to see Wurm Online be a little more welcoming as a game for those new players first checking it out.

[Mjneal 29]

When I first started maps were what most people in the starter towns where complaining about, this is a basic game feature as old as dirt and it confused the heck out of people that it wasn't in game. I nearly rage quit over it until I found the community maps. This would prevent at least a few people from quitting right at the onset and that is good for Wurm in the long run.

 

I am completely baffled as to a legitimate reason for people not wanting this feature as it already exists in the form of community made maps. I get not dumbing down a game for the causal masses but being obstinate about a basic, bog standard feature is silly. No, getting lost and dying five million times only to realize you've been running in circles for an hour is not fun for a majority of people, it makes a lot of potentially good players and paying customers quit in frustration, I was there, the mindset is why the hell should I spent money on a game that lacks the most simple of UI component? Wurm's a hard sell and not everyone anyway. The only thing being snobby about something every game and their brother has achieves is make the already tiny community stagnate. 

 

I can say that in no way did finding a map detract from the exploration aspect of the game. In fact my enjoyment skyrocketed. I still love exploring six months into the game and only need to glance occasionally at the map now.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Mjneal

[Tweebo 0]

Why not have some sort of interface, were players can make there own maps? Then players decide if they want to use, make,buy,sell,trade,etc maps? It would be really cool if there were a way to make map a very valueble item. Unfourtunatly I don't know if enough players would stay true, with access to internet maps, though u seem to have the truest community I've ever seen.

[joedobo 1,187]

What then of maps? Well, with the starting spawn town beacon you'd only need a key-to-press/icon-to-click-on to bring up a rough hand-drawn map ingame that only shows the outline of the "server island" and a yellow mark pointing down to the location where the starter town is for that server.

I agree this would help find your way. But we have had things like (minus the light beam but mountains are just as good) this in the past and it has not satisfied the desires of use who like maps. If this there were done we would still see lots of complaining. We could have toggles on the map for showing different things. Turn then all off by default and then only those who choose to see landmarks will see them. 

___

 

It also seems inefficient to me to add a limited scope map features. If you're going to change it why not do it right and all at once. Your mind will be fresh on all the code and balance issues so why not take advantage of that. 

[Torgrim 403]

Maps are fine but no GPS please. 

 

Rest of the list... well .. YAWN...BOOORING....  Good to have things but very boring...  What about bridges and new fight system?

[Wulfgar 1,131]

We could have toggles on the map for showing different things. Turn then all off by default and then only those who choose to see landmarks will see them. 

 

What you suggest is hilarious

Whats next, have toggles for those who want instant teleports, easier crafting, faster skill, easier mobs?

At least I have faith that the developers know where to put their focus and not turn Wurm into a completely different and dumbed down game.

[Sklo:D 2,210]

Personally I wouldn't mind a craftable map with "GPS"-System. If someone doesn't like it, he shouldn't craft it. 7

 

But for newer players this would be absolutely great to have. After sometime they can decide anyways if they want to use one or not by theirselves.

[Webba 257]

As for a gps system the devs said they wont make it and it is a silly idea, even if it were an enchant it would be the most overpowered enchant in the game. That said having an option to share your markers on the map with a friend could be a nice feature and it would mean that people around the start could help out newbies by sharing information about the starting area with them and even a basic road map (I'm mainly talking about freedom here). Still great to see wurm focusing on the new player experience, it has become much better for new players over the years but a new focus on it should really help to boost the playerbase. The rest of the features look nice and the visual crafting will be a huge relief from endless context menus.

[Torgrim 403]

Personally I wouldn't mind a craftable map with "GPS"-System. If someone doesn't like it, he shouldn't craft it. 7

 

But for newer players this would be absolutely great to have. After sometime they can decide anyways if they want to use one or not by theirselves.

 

This reasoning doesn't work, If here is GSP you have to use it or you would gimp yourself compared to other players. Especially on PvP servers this would not be optional if you wanted to stay competitive.

[EliasTheCrimson 348]

Wouldn't mind an in-game reference map (we do have the community map, after all), wouldn't really want a GPS-like map. I like pretty much all other points though, especially the ones regarding the hints and quests.

 

Not all players think like you, "lost in the woods survivalist". The simple fact is that the subject of maps comes up time and time again. Players do want it and I'd even bet a lot of new player expect it to be available.

Those players are welcome to play a different game in my opinion, because that's basically what Wurm would be with a GPS map. The fact that maps are brought up time and again simply indicates there are a lot of players who have gotten used to that comfort through other games, unsurprisingly.

EDIT: Sorry, read Buddas post, disregard this

I would like to point out again however that just because new players are leaving the game isn't doesn't mean there is something wrong with it. Different strokes for different folks, some games simply suit some people better than others, and that's fine.

Edited September 6, 2013 by EliasTheCrimson

[whykillme 1,621]

Maps would be fine, we have them now and if we don't some mapdump hacker will create them.

 

Some restrictions:

 

Must be openable outside the game (browser)

Only a mapdump

Doesn't update deeds on pvp servers, so you can't easily see where something new is being build and how the slopes are

doesn't show a you-are-here location

Doesn't update deednames etc, if people don't want to be on it they shouldn't have to be if they want to live remotely

 

---

 

Visual crafting interface

 

This better be worked out and thought about and tested ALOT by the community before it is released. If I can't play multiple accounts and actions still take this long I really could care less about a freaking crafting interface. We aren't playing WoW or another random stupid MMO here, you' re making something different.

 

---

 

What about fixing bugs that have been around like forever now?

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/87150-next-big-thing/?p=869519

Edited September 6, 2013 by whykillme

[notstupidbobb 175]

The map thing is easy.... if they give you a map, and you want to use a map... use it. If they give you a map and you don't want to use a map, don't use it. Get lost if you like.   Options, we all like different things, personally, I absolutely hate being lost in the woods.

[Saroman 1,341]

There's a bit of unfortunate wording in the original post, "General World and Local Map" should say "Server cluster map and Server map" instead. Might explain some of the confusion.

[Alec 730]

The map thing is easy.... if they give you a map, and you want to use a map... use it. If they give you a map and you don't want to use a map, don't use it. Get lost if you like.

 

 

This would end all that drama 'bout maps for noobs.

 

We have compass and I don't hear people crying cuz that helps to avoid getting lost/remove survival factor/blabla-I-dont-want-X-therefore-no one--shall-use-X argument.

 

 

 

Anyway, I know that there's nothing good in giving ETAs but, could we have an ETA on the new crafting interface?

[Kegan 3,926]

Well now i know why the devs are so reluctant to post what they are working on because it is meet with this every time. we do not even know what they are doing yet but here we are picking apart something that we know nothing about.

 

I guess if everyone is dead set against a map then we should go with the light beacon and compass ideas they sound like they would do about the same thing. Having a way for the new player to have some kind of an idea on how to get back to the starting town would go a long way. I would even like to see the compass idea expanded even more so we can set a point on our own with a command or something.

 

Lets say i am a new player i wonder off and find a good spot but it is a ways from the starting town. Now i can look on a nearby hill and see where the starting town is by its light beacon but i wont be able to know how to get back to this spot if i get killed. I can now use a command /home with my compass activated and it sets the compass to my new location so my compass always points to this new marked spot. I then can go out exploring and even if i get lost i can stop look at my compass and see that the way back home is in this direction. I can also see by the light beacon that the starter town is this way so it would make for a much better sense of direction and i would have a sure fire way to get around without a map. 

Edited September 6, 2013 by Kegan

[Gaeron 551]

The compass is definitely in keeping with the flavour of Wurm.

 

Right click

- select magnetic, normal compass operation

- select starter town, now will point to the starter town

- select deed, will now point to the village you are a member of if you did join one.

- select bank, will now point to the village token where you have your bank

- select body, will now point to your last dead self

- select marker, will now point to your last set marker if you have one set

- select place marker, the compass will now point to your current location if you select marker