Is Farming Fair For New Players Now?

[joedobo 1,187]

The farming changes that came with 1.1 where poorly thought out. A perfect example of some dev being allowed to put personal agendas before the desires of community majority.

 

revert to pre-1.1 farming.

 

 

The proper solution to farming is to reward players with equal yield bonus for every second spent doing a farming action. Farming actions are sow, harvest, and rake. And you can never get less than 2 yield per a tile. In my case, I can get 6 yield for about ~7 seconds of farming action time (sow + harvest). If I spend another 6 second raking with a high ql rake I should get another 6 yield. A system like this is balanced because there is no superior path. Compared to the poorly designed current system where the most advantageous path is to plant a bigger farm and never rake.

[Tenri 10]

I have 2.41 farming, rake my fields once every few days and still get 2 yield minimum.

 

I don't even know why this thread exists, my experience with farming thus far has been fine and anything I need immediately crop wise I can go to foraging for regardless.

[Hordern 2,177]

When I started playing, we never got multiple harvests until 15 skill (unless you were really lucky harvesting a low skill crop - I got my first 2x on wemp at 11.22 skill) but it wasn't even guaranteed until 20 farming.

 

After a while, a minimum of 2x harvest was added because getting nothing to use - only something to replant - was useless, depressing and quite frankly painful, especially as a new player. This change was hailed as brilliant by the entire player-base. I don't understand what has changed here.

 

It's not just about eating, it's also for wemp and cotton, both very useful for new players both for healing and claiming animals.

 

I have no problems at all with the new farming system, except this 1 crop harvest at low skill. Simply put a minimum cap on harvests for 2 crops. If needed immediately, a player can gather these materials faster (and of higher QL) by foraging and/or botanising, but that's hardly the point. Players should get a small reward for setting out on this skill path rather than having to wait a couple of weeks for any kind of a bonus [yes, weeks, experienced players training up an alt doesn't count, no new player will create an enormous farm just to skill up farming, because they have a billion other tasks to do too].

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Blanket +1 yield for all... oh, wait, that'll mean we're *pretty much back at where we were pre-nerf*

[BrQQQ 2,854]

afterall...why should any newbie bother with farming again if they only get 1 back? if they could get alot more from simply botanizing/foraging ? so I agree....i tested it with a noob character raked several times a day with under 10 farming skill and never got more than one which was very very upsetting to make "zero runs" for skilling a skill...though making it a pain in the ass and purely grinding feel

I think reintroducing the minimum harvest of 2 is a good idea, but what you're saying is like saying "It isn't fair that a newbie with 1 blacksmithing could only imp his tools to about 15ql". Of course it's pretty crappy in the beginning, but getting 10 in most skills is ridiculously easy. At 10 farming, I doubt you're going to get much 1 harvests if you farm atleast a few times.

I know that on epic, farming just 1 field for as much as you can could get you to about 3-5 farming. Just one field. If you had just a bunch more fields, you can easily get to 20 farming in no time.

[Hordern 2,177]

Blanket +1 yield for all... oh, wait, that'll mean we're *pretty much back at where we were pre-nerf*

And that's why no one had suggested it

[AlexLong 128]

lol I've been farming other peoples crops to skill gain and I was lucky enough to get food given to me by someone that lives close by to me.. But this game is complex enough before making crop returns zero. I don't like it.

[skyefox 487]

 If you doubt how easy it is to feed yourself..start a new toon and forage for a bit...your not going to starve...nor come even close to it.

 

This is not about whether or not you are able to feed yourself.  It is about getting no return for your efforts while farming (skill gain aside).  It is like trying to cut a log into planks and never getting any.

 

 Its supposed to be a game about survival isn't it. Isnt the risk of famine a part of survival...all throughout human history

 

 . . . sure it's a survival game, but I lets face it, in RL if you planted some veggies, there's a pretty good chance that you would get at least 1 to eat and 1 to replant

[Kediec 280]

I am all for returning the 2 crop minimum yield, and to be perfectly honest i have wondering why that was even removed with the new farming update.

[Miretta 1,415]

agree yeah sure one could complain about other skills beeing kinda effortless in the beginning too, but its not true! in blacksmithing you get your tools back as reward even if low ql, you get planks to use further in carpentry even if not 100% chance but in farming as it is now you barely get anything out of it in the low levels.....if we would adjust other skills to be the same its like trying to cut 20 planks and maybe get 1 from it over days since farming doesnt happen in 1 hour too....

 

 

farming should give results by the time it grows+the skill+the rake ql+ maybe the ql of the crop but it should never be below 2 because then farming is simply useless as beginner....its spending time to get nothing just more grinding and after that you still have a chance of getting 1 as result if not raking every day.....

[Protunia 735]

I have to say again there should be a minimum amount of effort involved to get 2 back.

 

Raking once or even twice is not much to do at all and lower skilled players are going to be raking anyways.

 

Now if they are raking and not getting 2 then that may be a problem.

[Hordern 2,177]

I have to say again there should be a minimum amount of effort involved to get 2 back.

 

Raking once or even twice is not much to do at all and lower skilled players are going to be raking anyways.

 

Now if they are raking and not getting 2 then that may be a problem.

At 20 farming, if I don't rake every day (so miss a day or two), I occasionally get a 1 harvest, so I can only imagine what it's like below 10 farming...

[sunsvortex 599]

This is not about whether or not you are able to feed yourself.  It is about getting no return for your efforts while farming (skill gain aside).  It is like trying to cut a log into planks and never getting any.

And as far as I am concerned there should be a chance for a 0 yield on all items. Just because you put work into something doesn't mean you should automatically get anything out of it. if you suck at something then you suck at it. Why get rewarded for sucking at something. There should be no guarantees....on anything. This idea of " I did x action now I should get x reward" is a bit oversimplified. Adding a bit more realism, especially to farming makes for a much more fleshed out path to follow. Itll give rewards to those that stick it out through the rough times and to those that really enjoy this aspect of Wurm. I have never been a fan of everyone wins. It celebrates mediocrity and laziness.

 

 . . . sure it's a survival game, but I lets face it, in RL if you planted some veggies, there's a pretty good chance that you would get at least 1 to eat and 1 to replant

ummmmmm.....noooo...not at all. Try farming IRL...I bet you change that tune really quick. Take even a single seed...and without reading or asking anyone anything...go plant it. Tell me what you get. If your lucky, you may get a sprout going. Now assuming the myriad of pests don't eat that plant up before it can produce anything( the list of bugs that will decimate your plants would not fit in the entirety of this forum), you still have disease to contend with.(Stuff like Downy Mildew, Blight, Crown Rot ect ect ect ect) So lets assume it does grow and disease or pestilence doesn't kill your single plant now you have to contend with the local wildlife. They need to eat as well. Rabbits, deer, groundhogs, ect ect ect ect.  So now assuming that none of those things get your plant and your plant starts making some random veggie you have indeed harvested and will get to eat whatever that plant provides. The amount of things that can kill maim or eat your plant is enormous.

 

Humans , to combat this rogue's gallery of agricultural assassins, have historically planted lots of crops at once to insure that at least some survive for harvest, knowing that some if not all will be destroyed. Multiple farmers in multiple regions have always been the insurance policy against agricultural devastation.

 

A 0 yield is not only realistic, it should be an absolute no brainer. Not having one shows how unrealistic farming actually is and subtracts from the immersion value of that path.

 

Also to add to the realism after adding a 0 yield, Id like to see multiple seeds from a single harvested item. Open a pumpkin and youll see there are literally 50 to 100 seeds per pumpkin. Same with strawberries, same with wheat. Many items give multiple seeds. So even if you got only a single plant that produced anything, you should still have seed available for replanting and expanding.

 

And while im at it...they should also add in a single harvest per wurm year as well as allow seasonal planting. IE pumpkins are a summer squash. Can only plant them in the summer. Once you have harvested them go in with maybe winter wheat or lettuces. A bit of research on CodeClubs part and you could plant all year long but restrict what can be planted when due to natural plant tolerances for temperature and daylight length.

 

Also throw in irrigation - water wheels, clay pipes or ditches using the fencing mechanic. Add in disease and pestilence for added stresses and impetus to add the previous items to your farm. Running a large farm is incredibly difficult and that should be mirrored in game.

 

And while im at it...throw in fertilizer. The way the Native Americans did it was to add a fish to the base of their plants. As it rotted away it provided nutrients to the plant. This would add more value to fishing.

Edited August 17, 2013 by sunsvortex

[Hordern 2,177]

Take even a single seed...and without reading or asking anyone anything...go plant it. Tell me what you get. If your lucky, you may get a sprout going.

You should try radishes, those things need no help to grow at all, easiest veg ever!

[Miretta 1,415]

@sunsvortex I can understand where you are coming from, but IF it would be done like you said it would also need the possibilities of countering it, like "asking" someone how to do it and so know how to plant and harvest something, but because thats not possible and everyone is starting new like they would every time reinvent farming its more realistic to go the "minimum 2 yield" also because its as you said....atm the "seeds" are kinda unrealistic and so the minimum yield would be for even it out...all those things that we would have in real life on the positive side....

[KunAlt 844]

And as far as I am concerned there should be a chance for a 0 yield on all items. Just because you put work into something doesn't mean you should automatically get anything out of it. if you suck at something then you suck at it. Why get rewarded for sucking at something. There should be no guarantees....on anything. This idea of " I did x action now I should get x reward" is a bit oversimplified. Adding a bit more realism, especially to farming makes for a much more fleshed out path to follow. Itll give rewards to those that stick it out through the rough times and to those that really enjoy this aspect of Wurm. I have never been a fan of everyone wins. It celebrates mediocrity and laziness.

 

ummmmmm.....noooo...not at all. Try farming IRL...I bet you change that tune really quick. Take even a single seed...and without reading or asking anyone anything...go plant it. Tell me what you get. If your lucky, you may get a sprout going. Now assuming the myriad of pests don't eat that plant up before it can produce anything( the list of bugs that will decimate your plants would not fit in the entirety of this forum), you still have disease to contend with.(Stuff like Downy Mildew, Blight, Crown Rot ect ect ect ect) So lets assume it does grow and disease or pestilence doesn't kill your single plant now you have to contend with the local wildlife. They need to eat as well. Rabbits, deer, groundhogs, ect ect ect ect.  So now assuming that none of those things get your plant and your plant starts making some random veggie you have indeed harvested and will get to eat whatever that plant provides. The amount of things that can kill maim or eat your plant is enormous.

 

Humans , to combat this rogue's gallery of agricultural assassins, have historically planted lots of crops at once to insure that at least some survive for harvest, knowing that some if not all will be destroyed. Multiple farmers in multiple regions have always been the insurance policy against agricultural devastation.

 

A 0 yield is not only realistic, it should be an absolute no brainer. Not having one shows how unrealistic farming actually is and subtracts from the immersion value of that path.

 

Also to add to the realism after adding a 0 yield, Id like to see multiple seeds from a single harvested item. Open a pumpkin and youll see there are literally 50 to 100 seeds per pumpkin. Same with strawberries, same with wheat. Many items give multiple seeds. So even if you got only a single plant that produced anything, you should still have seed available for replanting and expanding.

 

And while im at it...they should also add in a single harvest per wurm year as well as allow seasonal planting. IE pumpkins are a summer squash. Can only plant them in the summer. Once you have harvested them go in with maybe winter wheat or lettuces. A bit of research on CodeClubs part and you could plant all year long but restrict what can be planted when due to natural plant tolerances for temperature and daylight length.

 

Also throw in irrigation - water wheels, clay pipes or ditches using the fencing mechanic. Add in disease and pestilence for added stresses and impetus to add the previous items to your farm. Running a large farm is incredibly difficult and that should be mirrored in game.

 

And while im at it...throw in fertilizer. The way the Native Americans did it was to add a fish to the base of their plants. As it rotted away it provided nutrients to the plant. This would add more value to fishing.

 

And that how you will end with a game with 2-5 players per server.

 

My 2 cents.

[sunsvortex 599]

You should try radishes, those things need no help to grow at all, easiest veg ever!

mmm I like radishes. But it also depends on where you live and if you have any soil born diseases...like so -

 

The ease of which things grow is dependent on a lot of items. I have a radish row  out in my garden...been a very bad year for root crops...too wet here. and its causing all kinds of issues. As is shown in the above pic (no those are not mine)...just cause they grow doesn't mean id eat them. Lots of root crops look healthy to most farmers till they dig them up. Then you see the real picture. Only someone who has been growing crops for a very long time can readily identify issues before they actually cause a problem.

 

Also stuff like yellow squash and pumpkins grow very well here. The pumpkin vines grow so fast they will eat small animals and children if your not careful.   But I have seen many times where they get rotted from too much water..or stressed and produce sterile seeds. there is just a plethora of items that can cause plants to die / produce bad product....especially in an early agricultural setting where there is no pesticide, fungicide, ect ect ect.

 

to further put this into gaming terms - your skill should reflect your experience and your over all skill in identifying issues and being able to correct those issues before your crops are ruined. By adding specific issues and adding specific corrective actions you add a lot more depth and immersion into a path that from my point of view is completely oversimplified to the point of being nearly the same thing as Farmville. Id prefer to be able to put time and effort into my farm and be able to reap the benefits of said effort while at the same time weeding out the wannabees.

 

In simpler terms - when you first start farming..you suck...you lack knowledge and experience...why should you get rewarded for sucking at something?

 

@sunsvortex I can understand where you are coming from, but IF it would be done like you said it would also need the possibilities of countering it, like "asking" someone how to do it and so know how to plant and harvest something, but because thats not possible and everyone is starting new like they would every time reinvent farming its more realistic to go the "minimum 2 yield" also because its as you said....atm the "seeds" are kinda unrealistic and so the minimum yield would be for even it out...all those things that we would have in real life on the positive side....

There is no reason that a farming manual...or say something like a Wurm Almanac (spinoff of farmers almanac) couldn't be published when the changes went into place. Or simply putting in the description of plants (Planting Season= Fall) as an example. IRL if you had no one to ask you could simply watch what grows in what seasons. As an example - lets say that seasonal planting was implemented. I would envisage someone going out to forage say during the winter. They keep coming up with wheat as an example. Well we now know that wheat grows in the winter as its available through the forage mechanic. There are simply lots of ways for the "accumulation of knowledge " to come into being.

Edited August 18, 2013 by sunsvortex

[sunsvortex 599]

And that how you will end with a game with 2-5 players per server.

 

My 2 cents.

There are less people than that in my local now. 1 to 2 max at any given time. Unless you want to count people passing by..then it might jump to 3 or 4 during a weeks time, that I "might" see and they are just passing through. As far as I am concerned...your scenario has already happened. Time to make changes and simple is out. Complexity is in.

Edited August 18, 2013 by sunsvortex

[Hordern 2,177]

There are less people than that in my local now. 1 to 2 max at any given time. Unless you want to count people passing by..then it might jump to 3 or 4 during a weeks time, that I "might" see and they are just passing through. As far as I am concerned...your scenario has already happened. Time to make changes and simple is out. Complexity is in.

He said server, not local

[sunsvortex 599]

He said server, not local

I don't leave local ( I have too much to do at the deed to be traversing about)...local is my server

 

Perhaps if one spent more time at their deed...say tending the fields....my commentary would make more sense

Edited August 18, 2013 by sunsvortex

[Castile 167]

I don't care about getting one or two per harvest, time spent skilling will give results that's what matters in this game.

Also lets not forget that farming  gives skill gains in body,body strength, mind and several other skills that all players benefit from.

 If you want to talk about wasted time spent harvesting lets discuss the 25 corpses I butchered that had no meat.

[KunAlt 844]

I don't leave local ( I have too much to do at the deed to be traversing about)...local is my server

 

Perhaps if one spent more time at their deed...say tending the fields....my commentary would make more sense

 

Why will I expend more time doing brainless boring task hermiting on a deed while playing a mmorpg wen i can get more fun interacting with other players?

 

The day that whole wurm experience turns into something as boring as farming i leave it without look behind even a single time.

[sunsvortex 599]

Why will I expend more time doing brainless boring task hermiting on a deed while playing a mmorpg wen i can get more fun interacting with other players?

 

The day that whole wurm experience turns into something as boring as farming i leave it without look behind even a single time.

That's exactly why I would like to see it more complex, more in depth, and expanded upon. Farming should be difficult and demanding but the rewards should also match the amount of effort you put into it. Expanding farming as well as other paths to include more immersion  and depth of knowledge is the way to go. Simply adding a bonus to harvest doesn't make sense.

Edited August 18, 2013 by sunsvortex

[thekraken 270]

I didn't start farming until after the update and I just reached level 20 today. I've found farming to be one of the more rewarding grinds as you can see your crop grow, then you harvest it and reap the rewards. Yea at the beginning you only get 1 yield but i have a 7x7 plot and to get enough to get it started was a bit of a pain but it really wasn't that bad as compared to grinding something such as weapon smithing, armor smithing, etc. In my opinion I felt it was quite an easy grind and wouldn't have minded a bit more of a challenge.

[Aeris 3,752]

As someone who started out back when 1 yield until 30 skill was the deal I laugh a little at the "noone will bother with farming now!!!" comments. It was like that for years, and people still farmed. Otherwise I agree with the notion that a yield of 2 crops should be the minimum yield at all skill levels regardless of raking status on the field. Why? Because they first changed farming to make the yields more rewarding at low skill levels and it would be unfair to suddenly undo it.

I'm guessing that the 1 yield per tile since the farming changes was an unforeseen consequence since they deliberately changed it a while back so that new farmers wouldn't have to go through that phase.

+1 crop added to the yield (teehee math joke)