Mining Skillgain Test - Feel Free To Contribute

[Tekari 133]

Hello Wurmians

 

What it's all about:

Since I play Wurm I heard a lot of ideas about how mining is done best. To verify the best methods I just started to enter my mining data into a Google Document.

It's free for everyone to contribute. But please don't change anything someone else wrote (of course, right?).

 

Requirements:

If you wanna contribute you need Ago's great Wurm Skill Ratio tool.

IMPORTANT: For the Wurm Skill Ratio tool to be able to work properly you have to set the skillgain increments to always (Wurm Settings -> Text -> Skillgain Tab Updates -> Always). (Thx Yaga)
 

 

Oh... and a pickaxe of course.

 

The Results:

If we get enough enough data and I improve my Google Docs skills we should get some nice diagrams in the end showing us exactly what to mine at what skill to get the best results.

 

Assumptions:

- Circle of Cunning (CoC) gives a percentage increase in skillgain (f.e. a pickaxe - CoC48 increases the skillgain by 48%).

- It is assumed as well that sleep bonus doubles the skillgain.

 

- Wind of Ages (WoA) reduces skillgain since the mining timer is reduced. But since it is much harder to tell how much less skill you gain when using WoA tools I'd like to exclude WoA completely from the test for now.

 

Assuring accuracy:

 

To assure that the results are as accurate as possible the test requests that you only enter data if:

 

- the mining session was at least 50 actions - (100 would be better but my time won't allow more sometimes so I won't ask it of you )

 

- you used sleep bonus the whole time or not at all - (no entries if sleep bonus ran out halfway)

 

- you have no Wind of Ages (WoA) on your pickaxe - (I hope we can all agree that it reduces skillgain plus would make the test extremely complicated)

 

- you are on Freedom - (since on Epic servers skillgain is somewhat increased)

 

 

If anyone has any objections to how I wanna run the test or can show me a significant error in reasoning feel free to reply here.

 

So if you wanna contribute you can find the document here:

Mining Test - Feel free to contribute

 

 

Thx for reading,

Tekari

 

 

TL;DR-Version:

 

Mining Test to verify best skillgain method - if you think this thread is TL; and you DR then please don't contribute

Edited August 4, 2013 by Tekari

[Asciana 303]

50 mining actions is way too few. Try 500 or 1000.

[Tekari 133]

I know that 50 are very few but I doubt that we get much data when I set it to 500+.

But maybe I should consider 100 as minimum.

 

Thx for your input.

[Tekari 133]

I gave it another thought and I think the number of actions of one entry doesn't matter since the actions of each entry with the similar options can be accumulated.

 

F.e.: When ten people with a mining skill of ~70 mine an utmost iron vein 50x each with a QL1 pick then the actions sum up to 500.

 

But tbh I'm not 100% sure about that since math was never my favourite subject.

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Thorakkanath 444]

i know from a qualified source that coc 100 = +50% skill increase so coc 48 is 24% not 48%

[Aetherwalker 1,863]

Yeah it's definitely 0.5% increase per point of power

[Noizhead 622]

I do not understand how all these myths about COC persist.  Please stop spreading bad information.

 

13.9 second action, no COC: Mining increased by 0.000023

13.9 second action, 64COC: Mining increased by 0.000038

0.000038 / 0.000023 = 1.6521739130434782608695652173913

 

These numbers are consistent across every skill.  One power of COC is equal to roughly +1% skillgain; there's a bit of noise in the skill tab because it apparently rounds off after the 6th digit, even with gains set to show all.  Here's a quick comparison with filleting (where action speed doesn't affect individual gains):

 

no COC: Butchering increased by 0.000347

92COC: Butchering increased by 0.000664

0.000664 / 0.000347 = 1.9135446685878962536023054755043

 

Both of these tests took less than 10 minutes to perform, combined.  If half as much time was spent verifying claims as is spent parroting them, more of this game would be understood.

 

Sorry for the derail.

[Wulfgar 1,119]

Sorry for the derail.

 

Thanks for the derail.

[Renet 6]

Sorry for the derail.

 

Voice of reason.

[MattSquare 426]

There was something on the wiki several months ago that was removed that I feel should be re-added. I found that it holds true for mining, as well as any other action that creates an item, from digging and woodcutting to locksmithing and metallurgy. Basically, when the RNG picks a number for the ql of the item on creation (which is capped by the lower of your skill and the ql of the item being used for creation) between 1.01 and 39.99, you get a skill tick. This means that you should be using at least a 40ql item (lump, iron vein, etc.) to skill on, and you should be capable of creating at least a 40ql item (at least 40 effective woodcutting, mining, etc.). An important thing to note is that it is determined by the number created by the RNG, not the actual output ql. This means that if you are mining a 30ql capped iron vein (or your mining is only 30), you can mine 30ql ore, but the RNG can roll a 50, meaning you won't get skill. I am currently looking into whether or not this works for enchant powers when grinding channeling (so far, out of ten or so casts, it holds true).

 

I hope this helped.

[Hordern 2,177]

There was something on the wiki several months ago that was removed that I feel should be re-added. I found that it holds true for mining, as well as any other action that creates an item, from digging and woodcutting to locksmithing and metallurgy. Basically, when the RNG picks a number for the ql of the item on creation (which is capped by the lower of your skill and the ql of the item being used for creation) between 1.01 and 39.99, you get a skill tick. This means that you should be using at least a 40ql item (lump, iron vein, etc.) to skill on, and you should be capable of creating at least a 40ql item (at least 40 effective woodcutting, mining, etc.). An important thing to note is that it is determined by the number created by the RNG, not the actual output ql. This means that if you are mining a 30ql capped iron vein (or your mining is only 30), you can mine 30ql ore, but the RNG can roll a 50, meaning you won't get skill. I am currently looking into whether or not this works for enchant powers when grinding channeling (so far, out of ten or so casts, it holds true).

 

I hope this helped.

It's not been removed, it's just not on the mining page:

 

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Mining_skillgain

 

I was however of the understanding that your skill capping the QL is not a factor on whether you gain skill or not, I thought you get ticks for every mining action before you reach 40 skill. However, I don't have an account capable of mining with less than 40 mining skill on Freedom to test this.

[KaiH 1,126]

as far as i understand mining skillgain:

mining skill, vein type, vein QL and pickaxe QL affect the difficulty used in the success check which in itself affects the QL output check;

you only get a skilltick when the ql outcome is in the range of 1.01QL to 39.99QL. (the bonus from a pick with rarity is applied after the QL output check)

 

Interesting project, i am curious of the outcome!

[Aeris 3,752]

The vein QL matters nothing when skilling mining. I wrote an explanation in the mining section once as to why the average QL of the pile becomes different with a higher QL vein, but someone removed it. Can't be arsed to re-write it and people only ignore me when I say it. Not my problem anyhow.

Good luck with the testing, no matter what the results people will still believe more in make-believe.

[McGarnicle 1,463]

Pick a vein in your skill range according to the wiki, use a low ql pick with high coc. You are trying to minimize the 1.00ql and the 40.00+ql. If your getting too many 1ql then imp your pick a tad, if your getting too many 40+ql then use a lower pick.

[Depends 220]

You gain 150% more skill if you spin around while grinding starting when the timer hits 1/4 done and stopping only facing east.

[Asciana 303]

Dont forget to take the wind direction and moons into account.

[Tekari 133]

As far as I see this is indeed a hot topic where people each have their own opinion on it and with a lot of rumors going round.

That's exactly why I wanted to do this Test.

 

I do hope though that a lot of people start contributing soon so I can one day have something to release.

 

Edit: That's very strange. I got two mails because I follow this topic saying that two people replied between McGarnicles post and mine... but on the thread page they are not showing.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Tekari

[Hordern 2,177]

Yeah, there's a reason those posts are no longer visible...

Also, I agree with Aeris, I got the same skillgain from mining a 23ql capped silver vein, and a 80ql capped vein (and no, sorry, I don't have detailed skill tick logs to proove it)

[Tekari 133]

Ok, gotcha

 

About what Aeris said... yes the amount of skill gained per tick is the same but from my experience the skillgain ratio differs.

I definitely get more ticks when mining an utmost tin vein compared to a good.

 

But that's one of the things I wanna find out once and for all with this test.

 

So everyone... help me and enter your data: Mining Test - Feel free to contribute

[MetalDragon 1,630]

I'll upload stats at some point when I take on my grind.

 

Edit:

 

 

Pick a vein in your skill range according to the wiki, use a low ql pick with high coc. You are trying to minimize the 1.00ql and the 40.00+ql. If your getting too many 1ql then imp your pick a tad, if your getting too many 40+ql then use a lower pick.

 

 

 

So 20ql average is good?

Edited July 31, 2013 by MetalDragon

[KaiH 1,126]

So 20ql average is good?

Group A = 1.00ql, Group B = >=40.00ql, Group C = everything else

Aim for maximum of Group C

[Klaa 4,872]

Personally the vein ql rumor has never seemed to pan out for me. What I have seen regarding mining is that a longer timer affects skill gain greatly, at least for gaining skill in Mining.

 

If you seek to gain stats, then a shorter timer is best. Thus a hq pick with woa is fine.

 

CoC is fine in either case.

 

The type of vein certainly affects skillgain due to varying degrees of difficulty: rock is easiest going up to silver and gold as the most difficult.

 

That said... there's so many rumors on the subject, let alone the possibility of Rolf making changes, anything is possible.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Klaa

[McGarnicle 1,463]

 

So 20ql average is good?

 

 

This would all depend on your skill and the vein you are mining. 20ql would be ok if your skill is lowish...lets say around 30-40...since at these skills you will often produce ores between 1.01ql and 39.99ql regardless. As your skill rises you will start producing more and more ores that are >40ql if your on an iron vein which is why people suggest you move to a more difficult vein like copper, tin or zinc at around 50 skill. You can, alternatively, stay on the iron vein and use a lower ql pick, but i haven't tried this personally

 

If your skill is already up a bit, like 60 or higher, you will have to play it by ear. 60skill you should be on copper, tin or zinc. 70+ you should be on lead or slate and 80+ you should be on silver. I would start with a low ql pick...less than or around 10ql...

 

Your ultimate goal is to maximize the number of ore's that are between 1.01ql and 39.99ql (inclusively) and to minimize the number of ores that are 1.00ql and ones that are greater than 40.00ql. If you are getting too many 1.00ql, then you imp your pick (not too much) and try again. If your getting too many high ql ones then you have to use a lower ql pick or mend the one your using down.

 

I don't think that there is a correct answer to "Which ore should i be on at XX level" because you can be on any ore and gain just as much skill so long as you are using the right ql pick. I was skilling up on gold in the mid 70s and was getting very good skill gains with a 85ql pick that had 90woa and 96coc. I wish i recorded some numbers but I was mostly going for the ore rather than the skill. I probably did 2-3k actions with sb on and got more than a level. Keep in mind the actions were going pretty quickly and did it all in one sitting

 

Like other's have noted, I have also noticed that if I'm on a vein that is lower than 40ql, I still get the same amount of skill as i would on a vein above 40ql. I am currently on a 22ql silver vein and my belief is that even if an ore comes out at 22ql, there is a hidden ql that the RNG has created that represents what the ql of the ore would have been had the vein been higher. If that hidden number is less than 40.00 then i get a tick and if its higher then i don't.

 

Last thing I would like to say is that all of this is based on what I have read combined with what I have experienced. I have gotten to 91.7 mining and have hopes to soon be 95 as i feel confident that my skill is moving nearly as fast as it could be (barring the woa constantly loosing power on my pick ) based on my strategy.

 

Anyway, this was more than I thought I would be writing so i'll stop here. I would love to see the results of this test, but as I am on a mac I don't think I can contribute to the gathering of data. If you have a way to do it on a mac, let me know.

 

Griphyth

[Tekari 133]

A lot more testing needed but it's starting to get interesting. At least for me

 

People please... start to contribute. It will help everyone and I can't do it alone in decent time.

 

Maybe I have to start to spam Global so everybody knows about it . xD

[Hordern 2,177]

I'll upload stats at some point when I take on my grind.

 

Edit:

 

 

 

 

 

So 20ql average is good?

Nope, depends on the vein cap. If it's capped at 40, and you're averaging 20, then yes, perfect. If it's capped at 80 (this assumed you have the mining skill to hit the cap) then if you get 20QL average, you're getting too many 1.0QL ores.

 

Edit, lol, I should read page 2 before replying