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Klaa

Declaring Traitors And Outlaws

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What? You're asking for kingdom leaders to be able to declare someone and their entire village/alliance as outlaws before they even do anything wrong, and have it be permanent? How does that align at all with Rolf's view of the home servers? King's do not even have authority on home servers as you've pointed out. Nothing about your suggestion fits Rolf's lines. You're reaching extremely far; that's why it's ridiculous.

 

"I merely wish for players to be more active in said enforcement." THEN STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND DEFEND YOUR SERVER

 

 

We do stand up to them but when someone has nothing to lose standing up and fighting back makes no difference to them, yer we could level his deed but that would cause many of us to auto convert to bl which none of us want, as a fast as we could dig down his dirt walls (all while taking rep hits) he can just keep dropping dirt...

 

 

Edit: Also think you're not seeing how the 'griefers' are using same kingdom alts to get around the risk of raiding and using the rep system as a safe way to raid....  Which Rolf has said goes against how the game was intended

Edited by godcomplex

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Again... how does having offices working on home servers hurt the server? Feeling like a broken vinyl on that point.


 


Where did I ever say a kingdom KOS was permanent? In the current reputation system, rep regens one point/hr. I even once stated in another thread on the same point that a king should probably be only limited to setting -100.


 


Again on another skipping needle, yes it would be awesome for aforementioned players to defend themselves... when the game allows it. The entire reason behind even having a /reputation system. Unfortunately there's problems with it. The kind that a human player could cover... If only an AI functioned even close to the capacity of a human.


 


I don't mind someone taking an opposing viewpoint. Just try to do your homework next time, especially when you accuse them of not understanding the rep system. You came unprepared, so Ill give you a helping hand...


 


I played a thief, first and foremost. Ive stolen almost everything ingame ranging from nails to caravels and dragon eggs. Ive sabotaged entire kingdom infrastructures. Ive listened in on communications, forums, and copied maps of opposing kingdoms. Ive smiled into my enemy's face, while repeatedly stabbing em in the back by every means possible. At least when I wasn't fighting by more "honorable" standards.


 


Understanding the rep system is my main gameplay. Silence was my mother tongue. Anonymity was my creed.


 


Im guilty of playing Wurm's metagame to the hilt. In many ways Im no more innocent than some on the Home server. I merely did not roll out a massive billboard announcing it. Also I like to believe the people I targeted in particular deserved it.


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I'm not a fan of giving players such a big amount of power who are just picked randomly and not based off of anything other than a minimum requirement of a few skills.


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Well for someone who understand the system so well, you're making it sound way more difficult than it is. The system is designed to allow you to retaliate after they go hunted. You can then kill the outlaw without any penalty to your rep. If you're expecting to be able to just walk up and start the initiation, that is not how the rep system works and it will work against you, eating away at your rep instead.


 


I don't see what the big problem is with JK homers simply responding to a threat, and if he runs away to hide, then who cares? You survived the day. If you choose to chase all the way to his deed to attack, then you're going to get rep loss and back where you started. It's very simple.


 


Rep decays over time and of course if he didn't go over the limit, he'll be forgiven of Outlaw eventually and you'll have to defend yourself again. But all you need to do is make your own dirt walls, make your own reinforcements, make it so it would be too difficult for anyone to hassle you without losing at least 200 rep, and then you don't have to worry about any of this at all. The people falling victim are total idiots when it comes to defense and if someone can bust into your place with only 3-4 unlawful actions, then yea, they're going to get away with only a minor, temporary rep loss.


 


There's plenty of fair ways for you guys to handle your drama without asking for these stupid changes to reputation, pvp, homeservers and kings. Yall are such babies.


Edited by Versai

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This is my idea, mixed with yours a bit:


 


Make it so the rep system only covers people within alliances. If an alliance allies with another alliance, they both will be "green" to each other. If two alliances are not allied, they could be "blue" or neutral to each other. Also, make it so alliances can declare war on each other so they will be "red" or enemies to each other. People who are not in alliances should be neutral unless each alliance adds them to their alliance KOS list which would turn them red. Individuals or entire settlements could be added to these lists.


 


Alliances could choose to align themselves with the king. The rep system should protect people in alliances under a king at all time unless two alliances are at war with each other. Alliances could freely abandon the king and the king can turn an entire alliance into enemies, which would start a civil war. For an alliance to rejoin under the king, the alliance leader has to meet with him.


Edited by Sir Arowhun

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Must be easy commenting from the sidelines when sorry but this post proves you really have no idea what's going on.


 


 




Well for someone who understand the system so well, you're making it sound way more difficult than it is. The system is designed to allow you to retaliate after they go hunted. You can then kill the outlaw without any penalty to your rep. If you're expecting to be able to just walk up and start the initiation, that is not how the rep system works and it will work against you, eating away at your rep instead.


 


I don't see what the big problem is with JK homers simply responding to a threat, and if he runs away to hide, then who cares? You survived the day. If you choose to chase all the way to his deed to attack, then you're going to get rep loss and back where you started. It's very simple.


 


Thing is theres so many ways to get around taking rep hits when attacking deeds. Using BLer as nos does once he's use his JK account to set up gatehop  and minehops where if you try and destroy his gatehop when hes hunted a leaves a tamed horse from a non hunted account,  or dragging valrie mobs into deed local so that the guards die and he doesn't takeany rep hits as you can't stop spirit templars from attacking them.


 


Or when we do give chase back to his deed he uses the rep system to turn the attacker (who as Rolf said in his post on http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/84825-please-remove-all-the-anti-pvp-rules-on-the-epic-cluster/page-5 trying to teach the griefer a lession) hunted even when he's already hunted by putting everyone on kos then archering which works even if you leave his deed area but he's already targeted you (Doesn't need to even fire a shot for it to happen only target you on his deed border or perimeter) and then can proceed to shoot at you while your off his deed with out taking a rep hit or anything, plus the fact that before you can actually atemp to do anything to nos's deed you have to clear out the safe mine of his BL budies while having him shoot at you cos he doesnt go hunted on deed. Or the fact that once he's made you go hunted he uses 6+ alts to attack you to try and get you to auto convert to BL


 


 


Rep decays over time and of course if he didn't go over the limit, he'll be forgiven of Outlaw eventually and you'll have to defend yourself again. But all you need to do is make your own dirt walls, make your own reinforcements, make it so it would be too difficult for anyone to hassle you without losing at least 200 rep, and then you don't have to worry about any of this at all. The people falling victim are total idiots when it comes to defense and if someone can bust into your place with only 3-4 unlawful actions, then yea, they're going to get away with only a minor, temporary rep loss.


 


Hmm so the newer players that haven't had much experience with pvp its there own fault that a older player with much more pvp experience is abusing the Reputation System just because he doesn't want to take the involved with inter kingdom PVP or the actions hes taken have driven of most of the newer player on Affliction were there is no rep ystem, yer that makes sense...


 


 


There's plenty of fair ways for you guys to handle your drama without asking for these stupid changes to reputation, pvp, homeservers and kings. Yall are such babies.




 


 


So mind explaining a 'fair' way to deal with someone who is abusing how the system is meant to be working....

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If you don't get it by now, you're not going to get it. Probably should just quit or change servers if you can't figure it out.


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If you don't get it by now, you're not going to get it. Probably should just quit or change servers if you can't figure it out.

 

Yep, lets tell everyone who doesnt agree with me to quit, or play minecraft, or play wow, hey, if someone has an idea, lets tell them they don't belong here, or to quit the game.

 

dude, shut the ###### up

 

 

 

 

As to the OP, i like the idea, but i do agree that mechanics are already in place to deal with such if people go about it correctly, although i would like to see offices and such able to come onto home servers, it would promote more unity and interaction between home servers and elevation imo

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Getting the Super majority required for such an emergency action would be very very difficult and would probably require lots of hand wringing, bribery, threats, extortion and simony in order to amass the required Yay votes in time before they could lock down enough nay votes to block the motion. Think of congress and how productive they are, this would likely be even less likely to get enough votes to pass on almost anyone. 


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Ooooh bribery...


 


A chicken in every pot!


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If you don't get it by now, you're not going to get it. Probably should just quit or change servers if you can't figure it out.

 

LOL as i said before its easy sitting on the sidelines when you have no idea what actually going and giving useless comments on what we should be doing.  Some of the places that have been griefed by nos have had 100+ dirtwalls around them 3 or more layers of walls all on deed. 

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I've been watching this farce from the sidelines and the solution is simple. Just use bl accounts to raid his deed to shreds. With curve you can surely get some fighter accs made in 6 days of play time. Man up and use his tactics as they work. And stop asking for more hand holding bs

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Versai what is wrong with you? You went from being a decent bloke to attacking people everywhere you can on the forum and now here I see you judging people telling them to go to Freedom when you are probably one of the least pvp players on Elevation who barely goes anywhere and grabs everything they can of value during a raid to log out, I was in your village trying to help while watching you do it. This holier than thou attitude has absolutely no footing nor does it even make sense at all. You said you used to be interested in what Posteh had to write but now completely changed your mind about him, I feel the exact same way about you now, I used to enjoy reading your input but now its just full of bitterness and personal attacks for no good reason at all.


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LOL as i said before its easy sitting on the sidelines when you have no idea what actually going and giving useless comments on what we should be doing.  Some of the places that have been griefed by nos have had 100+ dirtwalls around them 3 or more layers of walls all on deed. 

when have i attacked a deed with a 100+ dirt wall i have never had to climb to get into a deed that i was attacking

 

Well for someone who understand the system so well, you're making it sound way more difficult than it is. The system is designed to allow you to retaliate after they go hunted. You can then kill the outlaw without any penalty to your rep. If you're expecting to be able to just walk up and start the initiation, that is not how the rep system works and it will work against you, eating away at your rep instead.

 

I don't see what the big problem is with JK homers simply responding to a threat, and if he runs away to hide, then who cares? You survived the day. If you choose to chase all the way to his deed to attack, then you're going to get rep loss and back where you started. It's very simple.

 

Thing is theres so many ways to get around taking rep hits when attacking deeds. Using BLer as nos does once he's use his JK account to set up gatehop  and minehops where if you try and destroy his gatehop when hes hunted a leaves a tamed horse from a non hunted account,  or dragging valrie mobs into deed local so that the guards die and he doesn't takeany rep hits as you can't stop spirit templars from attacking them.

 

Or when we do give chase back to his deed he uses the rep system to turn the attacker (who as Rolf said in his post on http://forum.wurmonl...-cluster/page-5 trying to teach the griefer a lession) hunted even when he's already hunted by putting everyone on kos then archering which works even if you leave his deed area but he's already targeted you (Doesn't need to even fire a shot for it to happen only target you on his deed border or perimeter) and then can proceed to shoot at you while your off his deed with out taking a rep hit or anything, plus the fact that before you can actually atemp to do anything to nos's deed you have to clear out the safe mine of his BL budies while having him shoot at you cos he doesnt go hunted on deed. Or the fact that once he's made you go hunted he uses 6+ alts to attack you to try and get you to auto convert to BL

 

 

Rep decays over time and of course if he didn't go over the limit, he'll be forgiven of Outlaw eventually and you'll have to defend yourself again. But all you need to do is make your own dirt walls, make your own reinforcements, make it so it would be too difficult for anyone to hassle you without losing at least 200 rep, and then you don't have to worry about any of this at all. The people falling victim are total idiots when it comes to defense and if someone can bust into your place with only 3-4 unlawful actions, then yea, they're going to get away with only a minor, temporary rep loss.

 

Hmm so the newer players that haven't had much experience with pvp its there own fault that a older player with much more pvp experience is abusing the Reputation System just because he doesn't want to take the involved with inter kingdom PVP or the actions hes taken have driven of most of the newer player on Affliction were there is no rep ystem, yer that makes sense...

 

 

There's plenty of fair ways for you guys to handle your drama without asking for these stupid changes to reputation, pvp, homeservers and kings. Yall are such babies.

you go hunted when you do something to a deed but you do not take rep hits when the templars are dead. i agree that F2P alts should not contribute to rep loss when killed its too easy to drive down someones rep and ive alrdy told rolf about this. i was not the one who ordered the alts online that was BL once again i do not control them they were trying to loot horses and try to stop you guys from destroying the cave. you guys were the ones who started to kill them so its your own fault for taking rep losses

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godcomplex, on 27 Jul 2013 - 6:36 PM, said:snapback.png




LOL as i said before its easy sitting on the sidelines when you have no idea what actually going and giving useless comments on what we should be doing.  Some of the places that have been griefed by nos have had 100+ dirtwalls around them 3 or more layers of walls all on deed. 




when have i attacked a deed with a 100+ dirt wall i have never had to climb to get into a deed that i was attacking


 


Aspen, one of there villagers said they had a dirt wall protecting there keep which you level to get in....


 


 




Versai, on 27 Jul 2013 - 2:49 PM, said:snapback.png




Well for someone who understand the system so well, you're making it sound way more difficult than it is. The system is designed to allow you to retaliate after they go hunted. You can then kill the outlaw without any penalty to your rep. If you're expecting to be able to just walk up and start the initiation, that is not how the rep system works and it will work against you, eating away at your rep instead.


 


I don't see what the big problem is with JK homers simply responding to a threat, and if he runs away to hide, then who cares? You survived the day. If you choose to chase all the way to his deed to attack, then you're going to get rep loss and back where you started. It's very simple.


 


Thing is theres so many ways to get around taking rep hits when attacking deeds. Using BLer as nos does once he's use his JK account to set up gatehop  and minehops where if you try and destroy his gatehop when hes hunted a leaves a tamed horse from a non hunted account,  or dragging valrie mobs into deed local so that the guards die and he doesn't takeany rep hits as you can't stop spirit templars from attacking them.


 


Or when we do give chase back to his deed he uses the rep system to turn the attacker (who as Rolf said in his post on http://forum.wurmonl...-cluster/page-5 trying to teach the griefer a lession) hunted even when he's already hunted by putting everyone on kos then archering which works even if you leave his deed area but he's already targeted you (Doesn't need to even fire a shot for it to happen only target you on his deed border or perimeter) and then can proceed to shoot at you while your off his deed with out taking a rep hit or anything, plus the fact that before you can actually atemp to do anything to nos's deed you have to clear out the safe mine of his BL budies while having him shoot at you cos he doesnt go hunted on deed. Or the fact that once he's made you go hunted he uses 6+ alts to attack you to try and get you to auto convert to BL


 


 


Rep decays over time and of course if he didn't go over the limit, he'll be forgiven of Outlaw eventually and you'll have to defend yourself again. But all you need to do is make your own dirt walls, make your own reinforcements, make it so it would be too difficult for anyone to hassle you without losing at least 200 rep, and then you don't have to worry about any of this at all. The people falling victim are total idiots when it comes to defense and if someone can bust into your place with only 3-4 unlawful actions, then yea, they're going to get away with only a minor, temporary rep loss.


 


Hmm so the newer players that haven't had much experience with pvp its there own fault that a older player with much more pvp experience is abusing the Reputation System just because he doesn't want to take the involved with inter kingdom PVP or the actions hes taken have driven of most of the newer player on Affliction were there is no rep ystem, yer that makes sense...


 


 


There's plenty of fair ways for you guys to handle your drama without asking for these stupid changes to reputation, pvp, homeservers and kings. Yall are such babies.




you go hunted when you do something to a deed but you do not take rep hits when the templars are dead. i agree that F2P alts should not contribute to rep loss when killed its too easy to drive down someones rep and ive alrdy told rolf about this. i was not the one who ordered the alts online that was BL once again i do not control them they were trying to loot horses and try to stop you guys from destroying the cave. you guys were the ones who started to kill them so its your own fault for taking rep losses




 


You might not control your BL mates but you still let there F2P alts to join your village which enabled them to respawn and get into the combat again and again plus they weren't after horse loot as you're claiming as they were targeting people on foot...  And you know why we had to attack them as they were trying to kill them with the gank bonus which they knew would also drop they rep which could auto converted them to BL.  You say you don't agree with what they did but yet you enabled them to do it... 


Edited by godcomplex

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I've been watching this farce from the sidelines and the solution is simple. Just use bl accounts to raid his deed to shreds. With curve you can surely get some fighter accs made in 6 days of play time. Man up and use his tactics as they work. And stop asking for more hand holding bs

Yeah because that's how the game was meant to be played (sarcasm)

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Yeah because that's how the game was meant to be played (sarcasm)

It's within the rules same as what all the bitching in multiple threads about this are.

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Versai what is wrong with you? You went from being a decent bloke to attacking people everywhere you can on the forum and now here I see you judging people telling them to go to Freedom when you are probably one of the least pvp players on Elevation who barely goes anywhere and grabs everything they can of value during a raid to log out, I was in your village trying to help while watching you do it. This holier than thou attitude has absolutely no footing nor does it even make sense at all. You said you used to be interested in what Posteh had to write but now completely changed your mind about him, I feel the exact same way about you now, I used to enjoy reading your input but now its just full of bitterness and personal attacks for no good reason at all.

Heh, I actually agree. I've noticed my posts are really nasty lately and I need to tone it down. I just get sick of people saying things are out of their control when if they just put a little effort in, they can change their situation. And hey hey hey, I've been on every HotS raid and most of the hota's in the past month, since I'm not tied up terraforming and skilling my relatively new account. Plus you know the situation at Niflheim. Securing valuables is the last resort but the only real option available that night. But I hear ya, gotta sort out what's been pissing me off so I stop taking it out on you guys.

Edited by Versai
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godcomplex, on 27 Jul 2013 - 6:36 PM, said:snapback.png

when have i attacked a deed with a 100+ dirt wall i have never had to climb to get into a deed that i was attacking

 

Aspen, one of there villagers said they had a dirt wall protecting there keep which you level to get in....

 

 

 

You might not control your BL mates but you still let there F2P alts to join your village which enabled them to respawn and get into the combat again and again plus they weren't after horse loot as you're claiming as they were targeting people on foot...  And you know why we had to attack them as they were trying to kill them with the gank bonus which they knew would also drop they rep which could auto converted them to BL.  You say you don't agree with what they did but yet you enabled them to do it... 

 

ummm that was not a dirt wall no where near a dirt wall that was a tenth of a dirt wall digging does not give rep hits when templar is dead it took me 5 mins to dig that down and gain entrance the thing is dirt walls need to have a longhouse on top of them to actually work or else ppl can dig it down and walk straight in

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So now that everyone has had a chance to cooldown... any further comments regarding the actual OP?


 


Im usually loathe to request thread cleaning; however, I will go there if things get nasty again.


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While, as I have already said, I think it's a good idea I have personally given up on the hope that anything effective will change. Now we have a situation that the loopholes are so clear BLers are actually converting to JK to attack JK more effectively (minus the CR nerf)


 


My own conclusion now is the only possible response left is to start playing the "shady" side of the rules possibilities ourselves. We have already seen several deeds disbanded and people leaving the game because of all this BS...or maybe going to Freedom I don't know. I do know this drain is harming the game though. New/not so experienced players who leave now will never learn to be the full out competitive pvp players in the future. That can't possibly be a good thing for anyone in the end.

Edited by Heboric

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Meh, could also be the oppososite effect. I would guess about 50% of new wurm players quit within a few weeks anyway. And 90% of home server players never progress to elevation because they just get too comfortable in their freedom-esq environment. The pressure Serenity is under right now has actually caused some players to man up and even go to elevation, increasing pvp there eventually. Also seems to have strengthened the home server somewhat because people are actually starting to work together. All it's really doing is weeding out the carebears. Players who can't handle a little pvp on their home server and just quit after 1 death or a little harassment are definitely not going to add any value to ele pvp or the cluster in general.


 


Converting is really stupid though, I personally hate kingdom hoppers for any reason. Remove kingdom conversions altogether whether through mechanics or free will and make the rep penalties a bit more severe perhaps?


Edited by Versai

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Meh, could also be the oppososite effect. I would guess about 50% of new wurm players quit within a few weeks anyway. And 90% of home server players never progress to elevation because they just get too comfortable in their freedom-esq environment. The pressure Serenity is under right now has actually caused some players to man up and even go to elevation, increasing pvp there eventually. Also seems to have strengthened the home server somewhat because people are actually starting to work together. All it's really doing is weeding out the carebears. Players who can't handle a little pvp on their home server and just quit after 1 death or a little harassment are definitely not going to add any value to ele pvp or the cluster in general.

 

Converting is really stupid though, I personally hate kingdom hoppers for any reason. Remove kingdom conversions altogether whether through mechanics or free will and make the rep penalties a bit more severe perhaps?

I am afraid of my deed getting totally destroyed on any given day. I react to raids and am prepared to fight every day. I hide everything I own. I shun any names I don't recognize because of being paranoid of alts. I always make sure i'm communicating with the people around me (the server) in case they or I need their help. I try not to leave the deed because there is a good chance someone will run me down and kill me. I spend my time flatraising more dirtwalls. Most importantly, I sit here and sigh when I see deeds that I know would call upon me and my friends to save them because they refused to prepare themselves on their own.

 

And you are telling me to man up and go to elevation? Does that not sound a lot like, if not more PVP oriented, than the elevation play style? I spent time on elevation, and like usual, I will admit it was a good bit ago. But I didn't have to do half of those things to enjoy playing or even to be semi successful. Maybe elevation is more hardcore now, but if I had to guess it is still 95% gentlemen's club where fighting is often but losses are few (compared to the skills and equipment stocked up).

 

I enjoyed elevation, and will probably go back eventually, and I don't mean to bash people who play there. I do mean to bash people who think that living on elevation immediately puts them above anyone that they believe are dumb/noobish enough to stay. Maybe some are like that, but there are dedicated folks on JKH (and the other home servers) who live there because they do like things a bit different, and don't feel the need to join the leetboiz to believe they have finally "progressed" to another level of the game.

 

TL;DR I am just whining, but please I don't get where people think that everyone on a home server is 100% incapable of doing anything.

Besides the death tabs.

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I said "The pressure Serenity is under right now has actually caused some players to man up and even go to elevation"

 

Manning up is required if you wish to survive, Elevation is secondary. It sounds like you are most definitely manning up by taking defense into your own hands. You can have your home server, but best be prepared to defend it like you said. My argument is that the drama there isn't turning anyone off of Epic that wouldn't have been turned off sooner or later anyway, and is actually inspiring some, like you, to play more and strategize better.

 

The only victims like you said are the ones refusing to prepare on their own. I'm sure after a certain calibration of defense, you would be able to ignore invaders and traitors altogether because there's not much they could do. Only then do I feel you've earned your place on a home server. But prancing around all day without first investing the time to train one's fighting and build deed defenses, and then whining when they get raided is like... entirely their own fault.

 

These issues don't exist on Elevation, so moving there or beefing up on Serenity are the two most obvious choices for someone who wants to be on Epic. The ones that resort to quitting or going to freedom as their first choice as soon as things get tough do not really belong here in the first place. It's not elitist, it's just the facts.

 

Takes a lot of experience to compete as well. The main problem on Serenity is that it's 90% noobs getting attacked by year old accounts with years of playing experience. It will take some trial and error to find what works and what's competent. I think that's why Serenity is so often targeted is because the players there refuse to put the time and effort in, instead just expecting an illusory lifestyle that's quickly shattered by players with any skill. I would hope it hardens the poor noobs and that they learn something and become the experienced fighters that they so fear and eventually reclaim their lands, but quitters are understandable too. 

Edited by Versai

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